Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

He could be out 3-4 months. Wow. That is insane.

 

They say it could of happened when he collided with a Pirates outfielder

[redsoxbeatz]

This sucks. Ugh. I had big hopes for Bailey.

 

Maybe he is back by July... Even then it's deep into the season..

[jung]

Bailey's injury record is sort of unbelievable. I would not have believed that even just a regular joe could have such a varied injury record. It is not like he has had occurrence after occurrence of injury to the same joint or something like that. Borders on snake-bit.

[ORS]

Really? I didn't know that he pitched 16 times in the 9th inning with saving situations. I still prefer him eating innings' date=' but if he takes the job as closer, I wonder who would eat those innings. Albers?[/quote']

It doesn't have to be the 9th inning for it to be a save situation. If a pitcher comes into the game in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning and the tying run is in the hole, which is a 3-run game with nobody on (4-run game with one runner on, and so forth) it is a save situation.

[iortiz]

It doesn't have to be the 9th inning for it to be a save situation. If a pitcher comes into the game in the 7th' date=' 8th, or 9th inning and the tying run is in the hole, which is a 3-run game with nobody on (4-run game with one runner on, and so forth) it is a save situation.[/quote']

 

I always thought that the save situation was only in the 9th and in prior innings (7,8) were only holds if you keep the advantage of course.

[ORS]

I always thought that the save situation was only in the 9th and in prior innings (7' date='8) were only holds if you keep the advantage of course.[/quote']

No, they award a Hold if you don't give up the lead but don't finish the game. If the pitcher gives up the lead, it is scored as a BS (Blown Save) because the pitcher came in to the game in a save situation.

 

EDIT: The differentiator is whether or not the pitcher finishes the game. Finishes the game = Save; doesn't finish the game = Hold. All are save situations.

[example1]

How about Morales to close? Dude's got the stuff, the question is whether he can throw strikes consistently enough.

 

Face it, none of these games are going to be easy to watch when they are playing the Yankees or other high-pressure situations. At the same time, they have a few guys who can do the job.

 

Keep Bard in the rotation. A good starter is more valuable than a good closer.

[seabeachfred]

Here's how I see it:

 

We entered the off season needing to fill 2 rotation spots. Here's what was done to address the situatioin:

 

No major league starter (who was a full-time starter in 2011) was acquired.

 

One of the top 2 pieces from the bullpen (Bard) was converted to starting despite no experience as a ML starter and a track record of failure starting in the minors.

 

A minor league pitcher (Doubront), with no major record of accomplishment in the minors, was installed as the #4 starter.

 

The two most reliable bullpen pitchers (maybe the top end of game tandem) was replaced with a largely unproven pitcher with no major stuff (Melancon) and a fragile injury prone guy who can't pitch more than 40 innings in a season.

 

For depth, a bunch of broken down, over the hill relics were picked off the scrap heap-- Silva, Ohlendorf, Maine, Padilla and Cook.

 

I think that sums it up pretty accurately. Others may feel differently, but I look at this plan, and I don't see a high probability for success.

 

We can hope that this team rallies in the face of adversity, because Bennies moves have not improved this team. There was one good move made during the off season and that was the acquisition of Bobby V-- and Cherrington opposed that.

 

Ted, there are some of us here who see clearly what a farce this GM is and how much damage he has done with some of the most ridiculous signings imaginable, but we have some friends here who want to believe in the worst way that the GM has done a good job and want to see him succeed in the worst way. Even worse, we get criticized when we try to show that the guy has been about as bad as a GM could be. He has company too. Why in God's name did he bring in a new manager, a totally different cat from Francona but kept a leftover from the old regime? It didn't make much sense then and it makes even less now. You almost think that the front office is going what they can to sabotage the team. I just hope the team rises above all this crap and decides to go out there and make amends for last year and forget for awhile what a bunch of yo yos are paying their salaries.

[a700hitter]

Ted' date=' there are some of us here who see clearly what a farce this GM is and how much damage he has done with some of the most ridiculous signings imaginable, but we have some friends here who want to believe in the worst way that the GM has done a good job and want to see him succeed in the worst way. Even worse, we get criticized when we try to show that the guy has been about as bad as a GM could be. He has company too. Why in God's name did he bring in a new manager, a totally different cat from Francona but kept a leftover from the old regime? It didn't make much sense then and it makes even less now. You almost think that the front office is going what they can to sabotage the team. I just hope the team rises above all this crap and decides to go out there and make amends for last year and forget for awhile what a bunch of yo yos are paying their salaries.[/quote']They were taking a big risk going into the season with such thin pitching, and they are getting burned by that decision before the season has even started.

[Dojji]

They were taking a big risk going into the season with such thin pitching' date=' and they are getting burned by that decision before the season has even started.[/quote']

 

Thin pitching? They were 7 starters deep before you even got to Andrew Miller.

 

Their pitching staff underperformed, Buch got hurt, and Wake got old. That isn't even close to being the same thing as not having pitching talent.

[seabeachfred]

How about Morales to close? Dude's got the stuff, the question is whether he can throw strikes consistently enough.

 

Face it, none of these games are going to be easy to watch when they are playing the Yankees or other high-pressure situations. At the same time, they have a few guys who can do the job.

 

Keep Bard in the rotation. A good starter is more valuable than a good closer.

 

How about Morales? Absolutely no Ex1. Colorado pitching coach Bob Apodaca is an old friend of mine, used to play ball for me in my early coaching days. He says plainly that while Morales does possess good stuff, he is woefully inconsistent and does not handle pressure very well---and this from a guy who worked with him for four seasons. Sorry that dog will not hunt.

 

I agree that a good starter is more valuable than a good reliever but not necessarily better than a closer. Remember 2003?????? Closer by committee for three months? Cost us the division, most likely cost us the pennant as well since we lost home field advantage. In my opinion Bard should have been annointed closer as soon as Papelbon signed with the Phillies. I have some doubts about how tough Dan is but I know he has the stuff to be a successful one if he has the heart, guts and balls to rise above his doubts.

[a700hitter]

Thin pitching? They were 7 starters deep before you even got to Andrew Miller.

 

Their pitching staff underperformed, Buch got hurt, and Wake got old. That isn't even close to being the same thing as not having pitching talent.

I am talking about going into 2012. Why are you talking about Wake and under performed. There is not Wake in 2012 and there is no under performance yet. There is no performance. What in the world are you talking about? Are you trying to equate a deep starting staff with the number of bodies hired to be pitchers? Silva is a starter? Padilla had zero starts in 2011. Maine had zero starts in 2011. Who are the 8 starters? Do you trust miller with the ball? Come on Doji. You can't be serious.

[SoxSport]

The first part of Bailey's surgery will be getting the thumb out of his ass.

[iortiz]

The first part of Bailey's surgery will be getting the thumb out of his ass.

 

Way to go SoxSports

[Dojji]

I am talking about going into 2012. Why are you talking about Wake and under performed. There is not Wake in 2012 and there is no under performance yet. There is no performance. What in the world are you talking about? Are you trying to equate a deep starting staff with the number of bodies hired to be pitchers? Silva is a starter? Padilla had zero starts in 2011. Maine had zero starts in 2011. Who are the 8 starters? Do you trust miller with the ball? Come on Doji. You can't be serious.

 

I listed out the 8 starters in the other thread. Sorry for misreading your post, but you're still wrong by the way. Our starting staff is competitive as long as the offense hits.

[jopete19]

By the time Bailey will be back Dice-k might be back. I think he might help us during the latter part of the season.

 

But before we get to the latter part of the season... I think Melancon should close. Now I'm no Ben Cherington. But Melancon had 20 saves for the Astros last year. For the ASTROS! they were GOD AWFUL last year.

 

Our bullpen isn't looking too good and our starting pitching isn't looking good either. Lester, Buchholz, and Mr. Fatty Beckett after that is really shaky.

 

Theo really left us in a s*** hole...

 

Good luck Benny Boy.

[User Name]

Ted' date=' there are some of us here who see clearly what a farce this GM is and how much damage he has done with some of the most ridiculous signings imaginable, but we have some friends here who want to believe in the worst way that the GM has done a good job and want to see him succeed in the worst way. Even worse, we get criticized when we try to show that the guy has been about as bad as a GM could be. He has company too. Why in God's name did he bring in a new manager, a totally different cat from Francona but kept a leftover from the old regime? It didn't make much sense then and it makes even less now. You almost think that the front office is going what they can to sabotage the team. I just hope the team rises above all this crap and decides to go out there and make amends for last year and forget for awhile what a bunch of yo yos are paying their salaries.[/quote']

 

Your "assesments" of Cherington have little in the way of coherent thinking and a lot of emotion and nonsense. Cut the crap Fred.

[a700hitter]

By the time Bailey will be back Dice-k might be back. I think he might help us during the latter part of the season.

 

But before we get to the latter part of the season... I think Melancon should close. Now I'm no Ben Cherington. But Melancon had 20 saves for the Astros last year. For the ASTROS! they were GOD AWFUL last year.

 

Our bullpen isn't looking too good and our starting pitching isn't looking good either. Lester, Buchholz, and Mr. Fatty Beckett after that is really shaky.

 

Theo really left us in a s*** hole...

 

Good luck Benny Boy.

It will be interesting to see how the Cubs do this year. They are in a weak division, but there isn't a single player on that roster that I would pay to see play. I wonder how the fanbase will react to such a colorless team that is likely to get its clock cleaned. The only entertainment at Wrigley this season maybe watching the new and creative ways that Alfonso Soriano butchers fly balls.

[pedroias laser]

Wow we have not even played game 1 of 162 and i see we are all bitching already. Please don't take

this the wrong way but i know the love and passion of this team means a lot believe me ask my wife lol.

I understand the pitching is much to be desired at the moment but the irrational thinking the past few

days is insufferable. I say let's have fun and enjoy the year hey you never know what is going to happen

we might even have a little fun.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Cubs are designed to fail in 2012. I think Theo is hoping for a run of high draft picks while trying to let some of these horrible contracts dissipate. He'll eventually be able to spend some change, but right now, he gets to do what I think he wanted to do in Boston. He gets to blow it up. In Chicago, the Cubs have been blown up so many times in their history that I dont think the fans will give a s***. If he tried to rebuild in Boston, he'd have been crucified. The Cubs will be winners by 2015, bank on it.

[kapsis21]

Wow we have not even played game 1 of 162 and i see we are all bitching already. Please don't take

this the wrong way but i know the love and passion of this team means a lot believe me ask my wife lol.

I understand the pitching is much to be desired at the moment but the irrational thinking the past few

days is insufferable. I say let's have fun and enjoy the year hey you never know what is going to happen

we might even have a little fun.

 

i will drink to that ...:thumbsup: lets playball

[User Name]

The Cubs are designed to fail in 2012. I think Theo is hoping for a run of high draft picks while trying to let some of these horrible contracts dissipate. He'll eventually be able to spend some change' date=' but right now, he gets to do what I think he wanted to do in Boston. He gets to blow it up. In Chicago, the Cubs have been blown up so many times in their history that I dont think the fans will give a s***. If he tried to rebuild in Boston, he'd have been crucified. The Cubs will be winners by 2015, bank on it.[/quote']

 

^This.

 

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. Why continue the futility in 2012 by tossing more money around? Just blow that piece of s*** team up and start from scratch.

[a700hitter]

I understand the pitching is much to be desired at the moment but the irrational thinking the past few

Other than the statement that the team is 8 starters deep, name one irrational thought expressed by anyone.

[pedroias laser]

Other than the statement that the team is 8 starters deep' date=' name one irrational thought expressed by anyone.[/quote']

 

 

My apologies 700 my post was in regards to Fred bitching and whining not a reference

to anyone else.

[a700hitter]

My apologies 700 my post was in regards to Fred bitching and whining not a reference

to anyone else.

Fred isn't irrational, just emotional. Behind all that emotion is a good deal of solid thought and experience.

[Dojji]

Other than the statement that the team is 8 starters deep' date=' name one irrational thought expressed by anyone.[/quote']

 

How about the thought that some of our starters are inexperienced means we're not 8 starters deep.

[a700hitter]

My apologies 700 my post was in regards to Fred bitching and whining not a reference

to anyone else.

No need for an apology. This injury to Bailey was a very bitter pill to swallow, especially on the heels of an off season that pretty much everyone has acknowledged leaves us in a situation where good health is critical to the team's success. There isn't a lot of depth, so we need good conditioning and good health over the course of the season. This was not a good start. It will stress a thin staff right out of the gate. People need to vent. I am worried that this pen could be a real train wreck. I didn't like what I saw from Melancon this Spring. The guy does not have great stuff, so his command will need to be excellent. Aceves can't carry the entire pen. Albers looks more and more like an Oriole reject every time that I see him. The rest of the pen is really uninspiring.

[a700hitter]

How about the thought that some of our starters are inexperienced means we're not 8 starters deep.

Honestly, we are at polar opposites on the thought that we are 8 starters deep. I can't even find a middle ground on that.

[pedroias laser]

No need for an apology. This injury to Bailey was a very bitter pill to swallow' date=' especially on the heels of an off season that pretty much everyone has acknowledged leaves us in a situation where good health is critical to the team's success. There isn't a lot of depth, so we need good conditioning and good health over the course of the season. This was not a good start. It will stress a thin staff right out of the gate. People need to vent. I am worried that this pen could be a real train wreck. I didn't like what I saw from Melancon this Spring. The guy does not have great stuff, so his command will need to be excellent. Aceves can't carry the entire pen. Albers looks more and more like an Oriole reject every time that I see him. The rest of the pen is really uninspiring.[/quote']

 

 

Believe me i feel the same about the bullpen as everyone else regarding the thin depth

and injuries. I get emotional as well believe me but i think we should just enjoy the

ride and wait until the break to see a good body of work before we get more emotional

haha.

[pedroias laser]

Are we all on the same page that this might be a transitional year?.