What did the Sox get for Epstein?

[a700hitter]

Thus' date=' a "meh" move. Someone is trying to out-negative me?[/quote']I'm thinking that he could be a mop up guy. I can't see putting a guy with a 2.0 WHIP at the end of the bullpen.

[seabeachfred]

Throwing strikes seems to be a big challenge for Carpenter.

 

More dung for the heap 700 because if he is challenged to throw strikes you have a real dud on your hands. No matter, we seem to have signed a plethora of that type all winter. So much for Garza and McNutt. We got ourselves a real potential lemon.

[seabeachfred]

One man's trash is another man's treasure---you've never heard that? IMO Blunder sucks at what he does--really badly. But if the Cubs think otherwise, which they obviously do, then why shouldn't they pay top dollar? He was under contract here for 2012. At the very least Larry should have threatened to have him sit out the season and watch, at which point the Cubs would have had to have gone in a another direction, without their 'alleged' savior? hahaha...

 

Horrible, horrible job by Lucchino and Cherington. Amateurish at best. For whatever reasons, the corporate end of this franchise has bottomed out. It should be clear to everyone that not a single one of them belongs in the jobs they're currently doing. I wouldn't hire this clueless bunch to take out my trash.

 

Muggah, I don't know if I would go quite as far as you on this but rest assured I'm pretty damned close. If 700 says Doji can be relied on then what we got was garbage. He will fit right in with the rest of the various and sundry dung for the heap. At least this farce is now over.

[seabeachfred]

Well we can hope that he could become a Manny Declarmen type and we can squeeze some good years out of that.

 

Manny Delcarmen???? Sorry Dojji, you lost me there. We had that bum for the better part of six seasons (2005-2010) and except for a stretch in 2007 he was known to a lot of us as MDC---Major Disaster Coming. Even Epstein threw in the towel in 2010 when he referred to him as a "sunk cost". He went to Colorado and failed miserably there, didn't exactly distinguish himself in the minors in 2011 either. Keep in mind that in 2009 Francona had to go out to the mound to take him out of the game an astounding 14 times. He was real garbage. Please sir, do not try and sell us Carpenter as another MDC; we feel bad enough just knowing what we eventually got.

[mvp 78]

"except for a stretch in 2007"

 

He was great for all of 2007 and 2008. Go back and look at his stats. He fizzled out afterwards, but was very solid for his first 2 years.

[VA Sox Fan]

"except for a stretch in 2007"

 

He was great for all of 2007 and 2008. Go back and look at his stats. He fizzled out afterwards, but was very solid for his first 2 years.

 

Some have a selective memory. That's all.

[SoxSport]

Another way of looking at this is they booted Epstein out the door and actually got something

in return. A win-win situation.

[a700hitter]

Another way of looking at this is they booted Epstein out the door and actually got something

in return. A win-win situation.

I really don't think getting anything for Epstein was a priority. They wanted to go in a different direction and the Cubs job came up at a very convenient time for both Epstein and ownership.

[FredLynn]

More dung for the heap 700 because if he is challenged to throw strikes you have a real dud on your hands. No matter' date=' we seem to have signed a plethora of that type all winter. So much for Garza and McNutt. We got ourselves a real potential lemon.[/quote']

 

Yup. Another turd for the dung heap.

About right for what Epstein is worth though, wouldn't you say?

[Muggah]

Another way of looking at this is they booted Epstein out the door and actually got something

in return. A win-win situation.

 

On face value, SoxSport, that is true, and nobody---I repeat, nobody--is happier about Blunder being gone than yours truly. But in the bigger picture the absolute first priority of this franchise, after becoming a national laughingstock last Sept., should be to try to restore some dignity to the organization. Not only haven't they done that with the way they've handled this situation, but they have further solidified their status as a first class joke. They cold not have handled this situation worse, and they're once again the running joke of the sports world.

[a700hitter]

On face value' date=' SoxSport, that is true, and nobody---I repeat, nobody--is happier about Blunder being gone than yours truly. But in the bigger picture the absolute first priority of this franchise, after becoming a national laughingstock last Sept., should be to try to restore some dignity to the organization. Not only haven't they done that with the way they've handled this situation, but they have further solidified their status as a first class joke. They cold not have handled this situation worse, and they're once again the running joke of the sports world.[/quote']We're too close to the situation. The whole situatioin was executed ass-backward, as was the Ortiz signing as was the salary dump of Scutaro without having a pitching move on the table. No one else probably realizes these things but sick diehard Sox fans. Stupidity abounds in major league front offices. Contrary to what some might believe, MLB management is not stocked with highly intelligent professionals. Our guys fit right in.

[User Name]

It's like they put a cup a cup of lemon juice, a crazy cat lady, and Mort from Family Guy in a blender: Out comes Muggah.

[jacksonianmarch]

Carpenter was drafted by the Yankees previously (I believe in 08) and he was considered a top prospect, but fell in that draft due to injury concerns. He was definitely looking to sign as an overslot kid but hurt his arm in summer ball. His problem will never be velocity, but health and command have plagued him ever since. The issue at hand is the fact that it's not just command this time, though. He never progressed with the breaking ball, making him more of a one trick pony. Now, if he can learn to locate that 100mph fb, then the average breaking ball could be more of a weapon, but thus far, he hasnt proven he can. He should have 2 options left, so my guess is that he sits in AAA and tries to get his act together

[a700hitter]

Carpenter was drafted by the Yankees previously (I believe in 08) and he was considered a top prospect' date=' but fell in that draft due to injury concerns. He was definitely looking to sign as an overslot kid but hurt his arm in summer ball. His problem will never be velocity, but health and command have plagued him ever since. The issue at hand is the fact that it's not just command this time, though. He never progressed with the breaking ball, making him more of a one trick pony. Now, if he can learn to locate that 100mph fb, then the average breaking ball could be more of a weapon, but thus far, he hasnt proven he can. He should have 2 options left, so my guess is that he sits in AAA and tries to get his act together[/quote']He's a nobody, which is pretty much what we expected to get. The surprising thing is that it took 4 months for the teams to agree on this. They got to the point of submitting briefs to the Commisioner on this. Ridiculous. If this was the compromise, what were the Cubs offering-- a hot dog vendor?

[SoxSport]

We're too close to the situation. The whole situatioin was executed ass-backward, as was the Ortiz signing as was the salary dump of Scutaro without having a pitching move on the table. No one else probably realizes these things but sick diehard Sox fans. Stupidity abounds in major league front offices. Contrary to what some might believe, MLB management is not stocked with highly intelligent professionals. Our guys fit right in.

 

Yeah--it shows their thinking changed. They sign Scutaro and offer Ortiz arb. Then they trade Scutaro--seeing nobody wanted Ortiz. Muddled thinking. They did make a couple of nice deals for two closers.

[SoxSport]

We're too close to the situation. The whole situatioin was executed ass-backward, as was the Ortiz signing as was the salary dump of Scutaro without having a pitching move on the table. No one else probably realizes these things but sick diehard Sox fans. Stupidity abounds in major league front offices. Contrary to what some might believe, MLB management is not stocked with highly intelligent professionals. Our guys fit right in.

 

 

I agree many posters out there are smarter than those front office types. Not all, but quite a few lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc who do this stuff for fun. Even Henry does. Amazing how many GMs just walked off the street starting off as apprentices. There are no degrees in managing baseball teams.

[Bellhorn04]

It's like they put a cup a cup of lemon juice' date=' a crazy cat lady, and Mort from Family Guy in a blender: Out comes Muggah.[/quote']

 

When you get Muggah, Pumpsie, Fred and Brennan together, you've basically got your Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

[BSN07]

When you get Muggah' date=' Pumpsie, Fred and Brennan together, you've basically got your Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.[/quote']

 

Or the 4 Q tips of the early bird special

[BSN07]

I agree many posters out there are smarter than those front office types. Not all' date=' but quite a few lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc who do this stuff for fun. Even Henry does. Amazing how many GMs just walked off the street starting off as apprentices. There are no degrees in managing baseball teams.[/quote']

 

While I agree with you that there is no special degree for running a baseball team. Most executives have a masters in some sort of degree. And that degree is usually what lands them the internship. They aren't going down to the local water hole an holding interviews lol

[a700hitter]

Or the 4 Q tips of the early bird special

Age cracks are strictly verboten.

[Dojji]

Manny Delcarmen???? Sorry Dojji' date=' you lost me there. We had that bum for the better part of six seasons (2005-2010) and except for a stretch in 2007 he was known to a lot of us as MDC---Major Disaster Coming. Even Epstein threw in the towel in 2010 when he referred to him as a "sunk cost". He went to Colorado and failed miserably there, didn't exactly distinguish himself in the minors in 2011 either. Keep in mind that in 2009 Francona had to go out to the mound to take him out of the game an astounding 14 times. He was real garbage. Please sir, do not try and sell us Carpenter as another MDC; we feel bad enough just knowing what we eventually got.[/quote']

 

Look again.

 

He died in 09, but we got 2 really nice years out of him first. His 2008 campaign was really, really good -- any time you can get 70 innings of sub 3.5 ERA ball from a reliever, he's had a danged good year.

 

His performance in 07 came at a time when other relief options (notably Okajima) were failing from overuse and we were realing from the failure of the Eric Gagne experiment. It was extremely well-timed and it's a big part of what got us the division. That's what bought him a chance to right the ship after 09.

[VA Sox Fan]

When you get Muggah' date=' Pumpsie, Fred and Brennan together, you've basically got your Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.[/quote']

 

:thumbsup:

[VA Sox Fan]

When you get Muggah' date=' Pumpsie, Fred and Brennan together, you've basically got your Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.[/quote']

 

Age cracks are strictly verboten.

 

Only when you call someone younger than you "old"

[a700hitter]

Look again.

 

He died in 09, but we got 2 really nice years out of him first. His 2008 campaign was really, really good -- any time you can get 70 innings of sub 3.5 ERA ball from a reliever, he's had a danged good year.

 

His performance in 07 came at a time when other relief options (notably Okajima) were failing from overuse and we were realing from the failure of the Eric Gagne experiment. It was extremely well-timed and it's a big part of what got us the division. That's what bought him a chance to right the ship after 09.

MDC had a few real good stretches over a couple of seasons. His WHIP in those seasons was pretty good. He never had a WHIP in the minors or majors close to as high as Carpenter. I don't see the comparison. Plus MDC had a plus curve. Carpenter's curve is reportedly very weak.

[redsoxfan3]

I was not expecting anything huge in return for Epstein. We didn't land a great prospect. There was no way we were going to get Jackson. Carpenter's ERA last year with the Cubs was deceiving. He needs to get his WHIP way down. I would give him a couple years before we say that he is complete garbage. I know that he is already 26, but if he can stay away from injuries and work on his control, then he might turn out to be a big surprise. As said before, he is probably a AAA filler. Only time will tell.

[BSN07]

Age cracks are strictly verboten.

 

Except for me, I was grandfathered in

[Laser Show]

Chris Carpenter isn't quite the Matt Garza or Starlin Castro some of you were expecting. Just another project for Pawtucket.

[seabeachfred]

As someone told me very recently, butt out and mind your own damn business. You were not part of this exchange LynNay, so take your own advice. BUTT OUT AND MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS. :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[seabeachfred]

Carpenter was drafted by the Yankees previously (I believe in 08) and he was considered a top prospect' date=' but fell in that draft due to injury concerns. He was definitely looking to sign as an overslot kid but hurt his arm in summer ball. His problem will never be velocity, but health and command have plagued him ever since. The issue at hand is the fact that it's not just command this time, though. He never progressed with the breaking ball, making him more of a one trick pony. Now, if he can learn to locate that 100mph fb, then the average breaking ball could be more of a weapon, but thus far, he hasnt proven he can. He should have 2 options left, so my guess is that he sits in AAA and tries to get his act together[/quote']

 

Nice try Jacko but here's a question for you. Would you take this guy for your Yankees now? I thought so!!!!!!!! As Pumpsie said this guy is one more turd for the dung heap.

[SoxSport]

While I agree with you that there is no special degree for running a baseball team. Most executives have a masters in some sort of degree. And that degree is usually what lands them the internship. They aren't going down to the local water hole an holding interviews lol

 

Masters are few. Bachelors degrees, yes. But that's a big change from 10-20 years ago.

 

That's why it was so easy for Beane and his Harvard assistant to do so well very early.

Baseball is always a battle between the quantitative guys with education and the qualitative types with experience.