Phillies sign Papelbon

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

They now need at least one marquee reliever and an innings eating starter. Their offense will suffer if they do not replace Papi' date=' but even if they retain Papi, I dont think he repeats his 2011 performance. Right now, really, the sox have 3 starters, 2 of which are injury prone and one who had cancer. If they cannot get 2 more starters and build some real depth behind their top 5, I am going to be very happy come October 2012[/quote']

 

Here we go. Somebody get the f***ing chart out.

 

I got you Yaz. You mean this one?

 

[table]Topic|Team|Content

Prospect|Yankees|The player in question is made of 150% pure awesomeness. Fear us.

Prospect|Sox|He could be good, but this is why he won't be.

Signing|Yankees|This is the missing piece. We'll win 160 games, and the umps will screw us out of 2.

Signing|Sox|Risky move, overpaid here, they'll regret this.

Injury|Yankees|They don't get hurt. Hypothetically, if they did, the recovery will be speedy with no impact to ability.

Injury|Sox|Everyone is a ticking time bomb. Once hurt, they'll never heal right.[/table]

 

Credit goes to ORS. I didn't make this chart. Absolutely brilliant.

[Palodios]

Thanks for digging that up!

[VA Sox Fan]

I got you Yaz. You mean this one?

 

[table]Topic|Team|Content

Prospect|Yankees|The player in question is made of 150% pure awesomeness. Fear us.

Prospect|Sox|He could be good, but this is why he won't be.

Signing|Yankees|This is the missing piece. We'll win 160 games, and the umps will screw us out of 2.

Signing|Sox|Risky move, overpaid here, they'll regret this.

Injury|Yankees|They don't get hurt. Hypothetically, if they did, the recovery will be speedy with no impact to ability.

Injury|Sox|Everyone is a ticking time bomb. Once hurt, they'll never heal right.[/table]

 

Credit goes to ORS. I didn't make this chart. Absolutely brilliant.

 

:lol::thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

I havent disagreed with you at all. This is a big money contract in length and AAV' date=' and is unprecedented in the history of closers. From a business standpoint, this is a risky deal. It all depends, though, on what the sox planned to allocate towards Paps and what that vesting option is. If the vesting option vests after the first 3 yrs if he makes 180 appearances, then that's actually a good thing. If it vests if he puts on the uniform once over the next 4 yrs, then it's a bad deal. They say the option is easily reachable, but that doesnt help. If all it entails is that he stays healthy, then that is actually a big deal when talking about closers[/quote']You and I know that Papelbon is a big deal as a pitcher. He was going to get a big deal. Even if Bard can handle the closers role and Aceves can do a good job in the 8th inning, this move will have a cascading effect on the rest of the bullpen. Aceves was our best all purpose reliever. He filled several roles. I am a firm believer that any subtraction from the pen eventually affects everyone else in the pen over the course of a season.

 

I wouldn't care if every major economist came out and did white papers concluding that the contract is a bad deal, it wouldn't make me feel better about this. If Philly paid it, it is a market deal. I have absolutely no reason to believe that our management is any more shrewd than Philly's FO. If believing that Papelbon's contract is a bad one helps people feel better about this so be it. Of course we have no bad contracts other than the tens of millions that we will be paying to players in 2012 that are not even on our active roster.

[Dawgma]

I agree that it didn't make sense for the RS to sign Paps to the same deal as the Phils. But it sort of makes sense from the Phillies point of view even though the sabermetrics may not justify it in baseball terms. First Paps will be in the NL primarily NL East. While Citizen's Bank Park is a band box' date=' he'll be facing NL hitters most of whom haven't seen him much. So I expect he'll do well next year at least. But more importantly the Phils need to keep their fanbase engaged. Philly has become a great baseball town again. The love the Phils. Paps personality will go over really well down here. They'll love him. I don't think that fact is lost on Philly ownership. If he does well here, he'll own this town even more so than he would have in Boston.[/quote']

 

If Pap had to move on so be it... I don't blame him for wanting out.

The Philly's are a great organization, the fans will really like having pap in the bullpen.

Oh, I'm now a Philly's fan.

 

I don't think you have seen the last of this Red Sox team come apart.

160 million a year for a lousy team? I say keep making changes. Re bulid for less money and lower ticket prices and hire Joe Maden as Manager!

[Kimmi]

Papelbon was the best closer available and one of the best in the business. I hate to see him go. That said, it would have been insane to sign him to a 4 year deal @ $12.5 mil per year. Long term contracts for relievers are never a good idea.

 

Take the draft picks, and take the money saved on a closer, and put it to use where we really need it - in the rotation.

[a700hitter]

Good luck to Paps in Philly. Thanks for everything.

 

I see the usual suspects are up to their bitching and moaning. Ben the Boob? Seriously

a700? I am truly sorry for your horrific year. Lighten up bro.

If I had the pot connections that you have, it would be much easier for me to lighten up.

 

And yes Ben the Boob. Not my best work, but I always like to coin a phrase or start a nickname. If he doesn't get us back to the playoffsin 2012,Ben the Boob will stick. People will start using it. I remember when I first used the term"Dumpster Diving" to describe the 2008 offseason, I was abused like crazy on this forum, but I have noticed that phrase is still being used today by other posters.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Papelbon was the best closer available and one of the best in the business. I hate to see him go. That said, it would have been insane to sign him to a 4 year deal @ $12.5 mil per year. Long term contracts for relievers are never a good idea.

 

Take the draft picks, and take the money saved on a closer, and put it to use where we really need it - in the rotation.

 

I agree. I didn't want him to leave but I didn't want him to get a contract like that. If pap was to sign that contract with us and sucked really bad, posters would be all over Ben's ass. They already are which I don't see how they can possibily complain about. A lot of them rip Theo all the time for bad long term contracts. I don't get it.

[Kimmi]

You and I know that Papelbon is a big deal as a pitcher. He was going to get a big deal. Even if Bard can handle the closers role and Aceves can do a good job in the 8th inning, this move will have a cascading effect on the rest of the bullpen. Aceves was our best all purpose reliever. He filled several roles. I am a firm believer that any subtraction from the pen eventually affects everyone else in the pen over the course of a season.

 

I wouldn't care if every major economist came out and did white papers concluding that the contract is a bad deal, it wouldn't make me feel better about this. If Philly paid it, it is a market deal. I have absolutely no reason to believe that our management is any more shrewd than Philly's FO. If believing that Papelbon's contract is a bad one helps people feel better about this so be it. Of course we have no bad contracts other than the tens of millions that we will be paying to players in 2012 that are not even on our active roster.

 

Valid point about the cascading effect that losing one reliever has on the rest of the bullpen. This is precisely why I always thought it was a bad idea to trade Paps at the end of last season, when many people were for that idea.

 

I hate losing Papelbon too, but another GM's willingness to fork out a bad contract should not mean that the Red Sox should buy into it. We have enough bad contracts on our hands to deal with as is. Adding another one would only make things worse for the long term.

 

A good, consistent closer can be found for a lot less money.

[Kimmi]

I agree. I didn't want him to leave but I didn't want him to get a contract like that. If pap was to sign that contract with us and sucked really bad' date=' posters would be all over Ben's ass. They already are which I don't see how they can possibily complain about. A lot of them rip Theo all the time for bad long term contracts. I don't get it.[/quote']

 

Yup, there have been a lot of complaints towards Theo for the Lackey and Crawford contracts, just to name two. At the same time there are a lot of complaints about letting guys like Teixeira, Vmart, and Papelbon get away. You can't have it both ways.

[Dawgma]

His leaving wasn't about money. It was about him wanting out.. He made I good move to a great team in the NL. I'm glad he did what he did. Now I can commit to being a Philly's fan along with the Sox.

[jung]

Maybe one of the more interesting aspects of this event is Paps unwillingness to even entertain an offer from the Sox to match the Phils offer. I had thought we would see the opposite of the home town discount once offers for Paps started coming and sure enough....we have the home town surcharge.

[a700hitter]

Yup' date=' there have been a lot of complaints towards Theo for the Lackey and Crawford contracts, just to name two. At the same time there are a lot of complaints about letting guys like Teixeira, Vmart, and Papelbon get away. You can't have it both ways.[/quote']Yes you can. If the guys you let get away perform welland the guys you sign suck, you have it both ways.

[a700hitter]

Philly fans must be really pissed about Papelbon's contract.:lol::lol:

 

Oh, they are not pissed off about it. Well, the Philly fans must all be dumb.. As much as I don't like Philly fans, they are not all dumb.

[a700hitter]

One other reason that i am pissed about this deal is that papelbon's entrance to Shipping up to Boston was the coolest entrance in Red Sox history. Now I have to change the ring tone on my phone. Damn!! I wasn't prepared for this. I've got nothing. I am taking suggestions and recommendations.

 

the Dropkick Murphysmust be very upset.

[jung]

Phils fans have no reason to be upset unless they think Madson was a better option or maybe don't understand why the Madson deal fell apart and are pissed at the owner for not signing the contract that was sitting on his desk.

 

I expect to see the Phils do a few more things this offseason to insure that they give themselves the very best shot at getting to and winning the WS as the position they are in at this point would suggest. That is unless they think Paps was the last piece to the puzzle.

[iortiz]

Phils fans have no reason to be upset unless they think Madson was a better option or maybe don't understand why the Madson deal fell apart and are pissed at the owner for not signing the contract that was sitting on his desk.

 

I expect to see the Phils do a few more things this offseason to insure that they give themselves the very best shot at getting to and winning the WS as the position they are in at this point would suggest. That is unless they think Paps was the last piece to the puzzle.

 

If they sign Reyes they will likely run as the #1 2012 WS contender team again, and somehow I have a feeling that NY is moving quietly and a bomb could explode anytime from now.

 

That would piss me off.

 

We? ... Well, you know our story. Seems like we are focusing in the manager, Sizemore and Theo's compensation, but don't worry this November.

[redsoxrules]

Such Hypocrites on this boards.

 

Last year when Crawford was signed , almost everyone was excited about it and was all praising Theo about it .

 

Crawford turns to s*** in 1 year and half the people who we're all for Crawford are now against it and blaming Theo for it .

 

the same would of happen if papelbon would have been signed .

[iortiz]

They now need at least one marquee reliever and an innings eating starter. Their offense will suffer if they do not replace Papi' date=' but even if they retain Papi, I dont think he repeats his 2011 performance. Right now, really, the sox have 3 starters, 2 of which are injury prone and one who had cancer. If they cannot get 2 more starters and build some real depth behind their top 5, I am going to be very happy come October 2012[/quote']

 

I really hate to say it, but somehow I feel that is our damn current situation.

[User Name]

I really hate to say it' date=' but somehow I feel that is our damn situation.[/quote']

 

Sign Beltran, get a #4 starter, move Aceves to the rotation, sign two of Broxton/Nathan/Lidge (with Nathan being preferred), get a good manager and a couple of reclamation projects to shore up rotation depth. /offseasonworlddidnotend

[SoxFanForsyth]

Can we just rename this thread to "The Red Sox are f***ed"?

 

Holy s*** guys. People thought the game threads were full of negative nancys? This thread is abysmal.

 

Yes. Papelbon left. Yes. That sucks. No, he's not worth $50mm over 4 years.

 

Give Cherington more than 5 weeks before we blast him with hate for letting Papelbon sign a ridiculous contract elsewhere. With the closer market, along with Bard, it would be have been ridiculous for the Sox to have thrown $50mm at Pap.

 

According to Jackso, Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester are all going to have their arms fall off, and Lester is going to relapse. Give me a damn break.

 

Yes, it would be great if we signed Beltran. Sign Beltran, sign Buehrle or trade for Danks, and make Aceves a SP. I don't like the Joe Nathan idea. I do like Heath Bell.

 

The point is, there is a LOT of offseason left. Lets wait until February before we pass judgement. I think a lot of people are overvaluing Papelbon. He's not worth 4/50.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Lidge and Broxton give me Gagne flashbacks.

[User Name]

Lidge and Broxton give me Gagne flashbacks.

 

They're both head cases. But nothing helps a ballplayer gain focus like the search for a new contract.

[redsoxrules]

They now need at least one marquee reliever and an innings eating starter. Their offense will suffer if they do not replace Papi' date=' but even if they retain Papi, I dont think he repeats his 2011 performance. Right now, really, the sox have 3 starters, 2 of which are injury prone and one who had cancer. If they cannot get 2 more starters and build some real depth behind their top 5, [b']I am going to be very happy come October 2012[/b]

 

Not sure why, cause you're team is not winning it the way it is now

[WhiskeyBreath]

They're both head cases. But nothing helps a ballplayer gain focus like the search for a new contract.

 

The problem with those two guys it just isn't only in their head. They both have major elbow problems. Last I heard, Lidge wasn't even hitting 90 on the gun anymore.

[FredLynn]

They're both head cases. But nothing helps a ballplayer gain focus like the search for a new contract.

 

Hey-no problem this year with the pen. Bard can close.

 

AND JENKS WILL BE THE NEW SETUP MAN...hahahaha

[iortiz]

Hey-no problem this year with the pen. Bard can close.

 

AND JENKS WILL BE THE NEW SETUP MAN...hahahaha

 

SET UP for what? a lose?

 

That made me throw up a bit.

[Elktonnick]

Hey-no problem this year with the pen. Bard can close.

 

AND JENKS WILL BE THE NEW SETUP MAN...hahahaha

 

Bard can close but may he save? There is the difference. It's all question of grammar:D

[iortiz]

Quick analysis: Red Sox may regret losing Papelbon

 

By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff

 

The Red Sox spent $142 million over seven years on Carl Crawford. They spent $82.5 million on John Lackey.

 

So $50 million for four years on Jonathan Papelbon was too much?

 

This is a decision the Red Sox might regret.

 

New GM Ben Cherington admitted he never made an offer to Papelbon, so the nutty reliever signed immediately with the Phillies, who made him a record offer

 

Papelbon was one of the good players on this team last year. He was actually one of the accountable players, a stand-up guy, who was in great shape and worked like a maniac and who at 30 years old, is really not that old for a closer and the investment the Phillies just made isn't crazy.

 

The Red Sox seem to hold the line on some players and not on others. They held the line on Victor Martinez, Adrian Beltre and Jason Bay but not on Crawford and Lackey?

 

The Red Sox feel they can fill the job just fine either with Daniel Bard or with one of the free-agent closers out there — a Ryan Madson, who was just scorned by the Phillies, or a Heath Bell. But are these guys Papelbon? Don't think so.

 

Papelbon is battle-tested in the AL East and in the postseason. Some of the results have been better than others, but overall, he's been one of the best in the game for a long time and now they've let him go.

 

Are the Red Sox trying to cut payroll after spending so much on Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez without making the playoffs? They're already on record as saying they'll go cheap on their fourth and fifth starters. They didn't raise ticket prices after the September collapse and the managerial search has involved a few no-names.

 

Right now, there isn't too much excitement coming from Yawkey Way.

 

Will they do something to change the vibes? Or are they taking a step back?

 

Seems like we are not the only crazy in the neighborhood.

[MANNYHOF24]

No reliever "deserves" a 50 million contract or long-term commitment.

 

The great one do. Do you think the Yankees would be as good as they are year in and year out had they not had Rivera? They wouldn't have.