2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

So far Cherington's duties appear to have been restricted to functioning as the team pinata' date=' hung up at home plate in Fenway Park so that the Boston Media and fan base can swat away at him hoping to crack him open knocking a few gifts to the ground in the process.[/b']

 

While I am indulging in a bit of overstatement to make a point, I don't think the way they are using Cherington is particularly bright nor will it be productive in the long run.

 

[VA Sox Fan]

Aren't you the same guy who was worried that the Sox were being left behind because they hadn't made any moves?

 

Yes he is. His urgency is kinda different.

 

Francona was hired is Dec 2003. But the urgency is of the utmost b/c of the 2011 collapse.

 

But I disagree. What difference does it make? None IMO. Not at this point in time.

[jung]

Is anybody questioning who hired the Cubs manager? Or who hired the Cardinals manager?

 

I don't think anybody questions who would hire a manager in the Red Sox organization and I think continually suggesting that folks are misjudging Charington in that regard is a misread.

 

The fact is, Charington was assigned the task of running a process designed to forward a candidate or candidates for the managers job, not to hire the manager. However the more we find out about that process the more it appears to have either been nothing more than a charade or a assignment given to Charington without adequate support information, parameters or priorities. Either way it achieved the same result, a waste of time with Charington basically left to look foolish and possibly left looking like he was outside of the loop.

 

Since there has been something of a backlash the Sox FO has once again been left backpedaling, something it has done quite a bit of lately. This time they are trying to recover some of Charington's tattered and burnt remains. That is not working out so far because no matter how you cut it, Sveum never should have gotten to a second interview. That was the straw that broke the came's back as far as Charington being left to look somewhat foolish.

[iortiz]

I don't think anybody questions who would hire a manager in the Red Sox organization and I think continually suggesting that folks are misjudging Charington in that regard is a misread.

 

The fact is, Charington was assigned the task of running a process designed to forward a candidate or candidates for the managers job, not to hire the manager. However the more we find out about that process the more it appears to have either been nothing more than a charade or a assignment given to Charington without adequate support information, parameters or priorities. Either way it achieved the same result, a waste of time with Charington basically left to look foolish and possibly left looking like he was outside of the loop.

 

Since there has been something of a backlash the Sox FO has once again been left backpedaling, something it has done quite a bit of lately. This time they are trying to recover some of Charington's tattered and burnt remains. That is not working out so far because no matter how you cut it, Sveum never should have gotten to a second interview as that was the straw that broke the came's back as far as Charington being left to look somewhat foolish.

 

This. I think this is true.

 

He is the luxury LL's assistant. Far to be a decision maker. As you said, his duties are likely restricted.

[seabeachfred]

Aren't you the same guy who was worried that the Sox were being left behind because they hadn't made any moves?

 

Si Senor, I'm the same guy, but didn't you read my opening sentence. To wit: THIS IS ONE TIME THE TEAM MUST MOVE SLOWLY. Comprende Amigo? There are always exceptions to any rule and this was one. For the record MVP, I still believe we are moving too glacially for my way of thinking but with Ortiz they must really have due dilegence with the guy. I simply believe Lavarnway must not be shuttled aside on the Pawtucket Shuttle as Youkilis was in 2004 and especially in 2005. I think the guy is ready to contribute in a big way for the next ten or twelve years.

[seabeachfred]

Yes he is. His urgency is kinda different.

 

Francona was hired is Dec 2003. But the urgency is of the utmost b/c of the 2011 collapse.

 

But I disagree. What difference does it make? None IMO. Not at this point in time.

 

Heck VA, if I had come up against your post earlier I wouldn't have had to answer MVP. You are right in that assessment. Because of the miserable 2011 collapse we have a lot of work to do and in my opinion some groundwork should have been laid out by now. We still don't have a manager, we no longer have a closer, we still need at least one decent starting pitcher, a RH hitting outfielder, not to mention two or three decent relievers.

 

Here's hoping that in the Winter Meetings coming up early in December the brass can finally get with the program.

[iortiz]

Heck VA, if I had come up against your post earlier I wouldn't have had to answer MVP. You are right in that assessment. Because of the miserable 2011 collapse we have a lot of work to do and in my opinion some groundwork should have been laid out by now. We still don't have a manager, we no longer have a closer, we still need at least one decent starting pitcher, a RH hitting outfielder, not to mention two or three decent relievers.

 

Here's hoping that in the Winter Meetings coming up early in December the brass can finally get with the program.

 

Plus, only 20 M in the pocket, thanks to our last GM or should I say LL?

[mvp 78]

Si Senor' date=' I'm the same guy, but didn't you read my opening sentence. To wit: THIS IS ONE TIME THE TEAM MUST MOVE SLOWLY. Comprende Amigo? There are always exceptions to any rule and this was one. For the record MVP, I still believe we are moving too glacially for my way of thinking but with Ortiz they must really have due dilegence with the guy. I simply believe Lavarnway must not be shuttled aside on the Pawtucket Shuttle as Youkilis was in 2004 and especially in 2005. I think the guy is ready to contribute in a big way for the next ten or twelve years.[/quote']

 

As long as Tek is out of the picture, Lavs won't be in Pawtucket. I wouldn't worry if that's your only reason for moving slowly.

 

I just feel like if another team swooped in and got Ortiz that you'd be up in arms complaining that "we" haven't done anything yet. For the record, most teams have done jack so far.

[SoxSport]

This. I think this is true.

 

He is the luxury LL's assistant. Far to be a decision maker. As you said, his duties are likely restricted.

 

Sure he's LL's assistant--and Hoyer is now Epstein's assistant.

 

Larry needs to spell out his responsibilities now that Theo is gone. He should have been out front in the manager search from the beginning.

[win red sox]

Under the new CBA, teams that sign the remaining Type A relievers will not be forced to surrender draft picks, a source tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). The teams that sign those relievers and certain other Type A free agents will not forfeit draft picks but the teams that lose those players will still receive compensatory picks (from Twitter).

 

This means teams can sign Ryan Madson, Francisco Rodriguez, Heath Bell, and other top relievers this offseason without penalty. The measure is not retroactive, however, meaning that the Phillies will still surrender their first-round pick for signing Jonathan Papelbon. For a full list of this offseason's free agents, including their Type A/B designation, check out MLBTR's free agent tracker.

 

Furthermore, the new CBA will do away with the Elias rankings altogether starting next season, Rosenthal tweets. Under the new system, the top free agents will be subject to compensation if teams make them qualifying offers north of $12MM.

 

it looks like the only good thing about the phillies signing papelbon was they did it early in the process

[seabeachfred]

As long as Tek is out of the picture, Lavs won't be in Pawtucket. I wouldn't worry if that's your only reason for moving slowly.

 

I just feel like if another team swooped in and got Ortiz that you'd be up in arms complaining that "we" haven't done anything yet. For the record, most teams have done jack so far.

 

Sorry MVP, you came up boxcars on that. As far as I'm concerned Tek is not out of the picture until he is officially out of the picture. After his rotten 2008 season he did not receive one offer from any other team and talk was he'd played his last game as a Red Sox-----and what happened. He was signed by us for two more years, otherwise he'd have been out of baseball. After the 2010 season he was re-upped for another year. He is like the virus that just won't go away and this time I hope that the FO finally gets it right and invites him to try his luck elsewhere. Yes, I want Lavarnway in that lineup as quickly as time will permit.

 

On the second point, I would be up in arms if someone else got Ortiz, yes I would, but it would be up in arms cheering. Youk is eventually going to have to DH with a year and by then I hope Ryan is ready to catch full time and Middlebrooks will be our new third baseman. With Ortiz around it causes a ripple effect of a traffic jam for positions that could hold both Middlebrooks and Lavarnway up and that must not happen.

[a700hitter]

A few weeks ago when a few of us pointed out that the Red Sox were in disarray, we got ridiculed. When I said that they had to turn things around quickly, because they had crossed over into laughingstock status, people said that I was over reacting. From today's Boston Globe. In the first line the Red Sox are called a doofus organization.

 

From bad to worse in offseason

By Dan Shaughnessy

Globe Columnist / November 20, 2011

 

Can the Red Sox do anything else to boost their image as a doofus organization?

Remember when the Yawkey Way boys were a mere team, playing baseball games?

 

Not anymore. The Sox don’t play games in November (they don’t play in October anymore, either, come to think of it). But they are in the news, and on our minds much more than the Celtics, Bruins or midseason Patriots.

 

The Sox don’t need baseball to make news.

 

Hits, runs, and errors? The offseason Sox take hits. People run from the Boston franchise. And the goofy owners make more errors than Julio Lugo in a day-night doubleheader.

 

The Sox are in the news because they are a daily punch line. Who needs to play games when you have daily chaos at the top?

 

Boston baseball’s nuclear winter thus far has seen the firing of Terry Francona, the no-resistance departure of Theo Epstein, the abrupt flight of the greatest closer in franchise history, disclosure of the Delta House environment of 2011, and a series of head-scratching missteps and mind-bending news conferences.

 

Meanwhile, an increasingly uneven and cumbersome ownership group - ever concerned with image - confuses all with ever-changing explanations of ball club governance.

 

Things got so bad last week that Miss Heidi left without even leaving a note (the good news on that one is it finally gives Tom Werner something to do). Can’t say we blame her.

 

Let’s start our weekly update with the state of non-compensation for Theo. What a joke this has become. Theo is ensconced in his office at Wrigley Field, laughing at the dopes in Boston who let him out of his contract before insisting on payback. And now there’s nothing the Sox can do except wait for Uncle Bud to force the Cubs to send Boston some Single A outfielder who’ll be waiting tables in a year or two.

 

Why didn’t the Sox hold out for Matt Garza before letting Theo go? The Cubs had to have Theo after all the hype. Now they have their man and the Sox have lost all leverage. The Sox are like a guy who “sells’’ his house, and lets the new owner move in before closing. The played “seller’’ has to go to court to evict, or make the new owner pay. It’s a joke. Epstein had tremendous value and the Sox let him walk and now they are begging. Pathetic.

 

Speaking of pathetic, we have the Cirque-de-so-lame managerial search, which is now coming up on its eighth week. The world champion St. Louis Cardinals needed only 12 days to find their man.

 

It doesn’t really matter how long it takes if the Sox wind up getting the right guy, but this process at the very least raises questions about the chain of command on Yawkey Way.

 

After the soft parade of Dale Sveum, Pete Mackanin, Sandy Alomar Jr., Torey Lovullo, and Gene Lamont, Sox ownership effectively emasculated new general manager Ben Cherington in Milwaukee last week, thumbing their noses at Sveum, the choice of Ben and his baseball ops team. Then we find out the owners wanted a guy like Bobby Valentine all along.

 

So, what was the Dale and Pony Show at Fenway over the last three weeks? Was it really necessary to trot all those guys out in front of the media so we could find out that none of it was serious?

 

Why the misdirection? Why make your serious new GM look powerless right out of the gate (Ben is in the Dominican Republic this weekend, scouting Yoenis Cespedes while the grown-ups resume the managerial search)? What is happening at the top?

 

John Henry has gone underground since bursting into the SportsHub studios. It’s pretty clear that pork bellies, Liverpool, and his new family have taken his attention away from the Red Sox. Meanwhile, Inspector Werner is now on the case looking for the next Heidi and more of that nifty, award-winning NESN programming. That leaves Larry Lucchino, “the man who runs the Red Sox.’’

 

Without saying much of anything, Larry is presenting as the de facto GM of the Red Sox, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The Sox could have used some of Larry’s urgency when Jonathan Papelbon was allowed to walk without receiving an offer.

 

We know Henry is a Valentine fan (curious, given Valentine’s rejection of Carmine and Moneyball), but Larry is the guy who sat in on a panel with Valentine a couple of weeks ago. Larry is the guy flexing his baseball muscles now that Theo (Henry’s long, lost son) is no longer battling for power inside the walls of Fenway.

 

No one is saying Sveum is any great loss. He had only 12 games of managerial experience and the Brewers passed him over when they had a chance to name a new manager. His PR skills are minimal and perhaps being a poor third base coach makes one questionable managerial material.

 

But Sveum was the choice of slow-moving Cherington and baseball ops. And ownership said no. After lunch. Maybe Sveum chewed with his mouth open or said something nasty about “Pocket Money,’’ but he should not have been a mystery to Henry, Werner, and Lucchino. Sveum worked at Fenway every day for two seasons while they owned the club.

 

Now it’s on to Bobby V.

 

This is going to be great. Let’s hope Valentine brings the fake nose and glasses he wore in the Mets dugout. Maybe he has a Groucho mask.

 

He also points out that the compensation from the Cubs should have been settled before permission was granted to talk to Theo. The Sox have no leverage now.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox never really had that much leverage, I don't think, because Epstein was clearly a goner who could do them no good by sticking around. Shaughnessy's suggestion of holding out for Garza seems pretty ludicrous.

[SoxSport]

This. I think this is true.

 

He is the luxury LL's assistant. Far to be a decision maker. As you said, his duties are likely restricted.

 

Cherington is where Epstein was when he first became GM in 03. Epstein didn't become independent of Lucchino until after 07. Cherington is not where Epstein was when he left for the Cubs. An important point conveniently overlooked by the media. You can blame the Red Sox for not spelling this out from the start.

 

The manager search has been far too open and public.

[a700hitter]

Cherington is where Epstein was when he first became GM in 03. Epstein didn't become independent of Lucchino until after 07. Cherington is not where Epstein was when he left for the Cubs. An important point conveniently overlooked by the media. You can blame the Red Sox for not spelling this out from the start.

 

The manager search has been far too open and public.

And once Theo became independent, he did not do well.

[a700hitter]

It's meaningless to me whether Big Ben is a figure head. If Lucchino can right the ship, let him pull the strings.

[Elktonnick]

It's meaningless to me whether Big Ben is a figure head. If Lucchino can right the ship' date=' let him pull the strings.[/quote']

 

It is only significant in that it is indicative that this organization is a PR disaster and highly dysfunctional right now. I hope he can right the ship and does pull the strings so long as we get our sh-t together.

[example1]

A few weeks ago when a few of us pointed out that the Red Sox were in disarray, we got ridiculed. When I said that they had to turn things around quickly, because they had crossed over into laughingstock status, people said that I was over reacting. From today's Boston Globe. In the first line the Red Sox are called a doofus organization.

 

He also points out that the compensation from the Cubs should have been settled before permission was granted to talk to Theo. The Sox have no leverage now.

 

I think it is quite possible that the laughingstock are the people declaring laughingstock while hyperextending their arms for self-back-patting.

 

Shaughnessy is the worst of all the Boston sports writers. That he agrees with you--or you with him--is not at all shocking.

 

Sox writers like to take a kernel of truth and turn it into a swaying corn-field of scandal; Shaughnessy takes that same kernal and turns it into Nebraska.

 

It is in the media's best interest to have the Sox be a "PR disaster" because they specialize in PR disasters. That's what they do. There is much less to write about when things are going glowingly or when there is no change necessary.

[a700hitter]

I think it is quite possible that the laughingstock are the people declaring laughingstock while hyperextending their arms for self-back-patting.

 

Shaughnessy is the worst of all the Boston sports writers. That he agrees with you--or you with him--is not at all shocking.

 

Sox writers like to take a kernel of truth and turn it into a swaying corn-field of scandal; Shaughnessy takes that same kernal and turns it into Nebraska.

I think the secret is out that the organization is dysfunctional. The Boston Press, not surprisingly, is late in acknowledging this, because they don't want to jeopardize their access to the team and team sources. Shaughnessy's position is secure enough that he doesn't mind ruffling some feathers.

 

BTW: Thanks for the unsolicited insult. It's becoming the norm for you.

[example1]

I think the secret is out that the organization is dysfunctional. The Boston Press, not surprisingly, is late in acknowledging this, because they don't want to jeopardize their access to the team and team sources. Shaughnessy's position is secure enough that he doesn't mind ruffling some feathers.

 

BTW: Thanks for the unsolicited insult. It's becoming the norm for you.

 

Do you usually solicit your insults? Sorry (again) that I insulted you by ripping Shaughnessy and then linking him to you. If you agree with my ripping of shaughnessy then maybe you shouldn't post his hyperventilating rantings as aligned with your own thoughts so closely?

 

I think the organization is in a period of flux. They are not dysfunctional. If this team makes the playoffs next year and has an overall good season people are going to look really, really silly for all the bluster and freaking out from this offseason.

[a700hitter]

Do you usually solicit your insults? Sorry (again) that I insulted you by ripping Shaughnessy and then linking him to you. If you agree with my ripping of shaughnessy then maybe you shouldn't post his hyperventilating rantings as aligned with your own thoughts so closely?

It's okay. Your anger at everything I post amuses me.

 

I think the organization is in a period of flux. They are not dysfunctional. If this team makes the playoffs next year and has an overall good season people are going to look really' date=' really silly for all the bluster and freaking out from this offseason.[/quote']So then you are in agreement with the firing of Tito and the open door for Theo to leave with no attempts to keep him?

 

For the record, I don't think the organization is dysfunctional, but the perception is that they are dysfunctional and a laughingstock. People like Shaughnessy create that perception. Whether the perception is accurate or not, the organization cannot be comfortable with that perception. It has been my position that the organization will make bold moves to get back to the playoffs in 2012, because they want this perception to go away. The perception is out there. That cannot be disputed. My premise was correct. What remains to be determined is whether the organization will take the bold steps to turn the team around. Arguably they have taken a number of bold steps already-- they fired the manager and much of the coaching staff. They have changed GM's, fired the strength and conditioning coach, and they are considering changing the medical staff.

[User Name]

It's absolutely amazing how much a person can toot their own horn about being correct about everything. I bet this guy calls for the FO to sign a certain a player, and if the player sucks, then it's because the FO didn't do their due diligence because HE can never be wrong. What a prize.

[example1]

So then you are in agreement with the firing of Tito and the open door for Theo to leave with no attempts to keep him?

 

Nope. Tito, I am okay with going a new direction. However, I think the cubs got a very good baseball mind. I also think the Sox didn't want Theo to leave. It makes things more complicated than they needed to be.

 

For the record, I don't think the organization is dysfunctional, but the perception is that they are dysfunctional and a laughingstock.

 

But, if "the perception" is based on what people write in the paper, then you are basing that perception on the view of a very select group of people. "The perception" should really be based more on what the general population thinks. A better way to put it is that "for people who only think based on what people in the media write, the perception is..." but I don't really care about them and I don't think the FO should either.

 

People like Shaughnessy create that perception. Whether the perception is accurate or not, the organization cannot be comfortable with that perception. It has been my position that the organization will make bold moves to get back to the playoffs in 2012, because they want this perception to go away. The perception is out there. That cannot be disputed. My premise was correct.

 

Because my perception is that the organization is not in a HUGE amount of trouble, it is also true and cannot be disputed that the perception is out there that the Red Sox are not the Titanic, sinking with a goofy, incapapble and stupid front office seeking more icebergs to hit. See how this works?

 

I don't care what the reactionary boston media writes. If anything they are only increasing interest in the Sox and in people who will tune in next year to see how they do with the moves they make.

 

It's a symbiotic relationship.

[a700hitter]

But, if "the perception" is based on what people write in the paper, then you are basing that perception on the view of a very select group of people. "The perception" should really be based more on what the general population thinks. A better way to put it is that "for people who only think based on what people in the media write, the perception is..." but I don't really care about them and I don't think the FO should either.

But they do care. That's why they have PR people that take great pains to craft this public perception.

 

It's funny that we are saying the same thing with regard to the big picture. We both think they will be back in 2012. You have thought from the beginning that only minor tweaks are needed. I, on the other hand, have said that major changes would occur, and they have and I think we will continue to see some major changes. So, we basically agree on the major issue, but differ on the details of how it will be achieved. As usual, it escapes you when we are actually in agreement.

 

Because my perception is that the organization is not in a HUGE amount of trouble' date=' [b']it is also true and cannot be disputed that the perception is out there that the Red Sox are not the Titanic, sinking with a goofy, incapapble and stupid front office seeking more icebergs to hit[/b]. See how this works?

Neither you nor I form the perception. The likes of Shaughnessy do form the public's perception. That's the way it works. And that perception has spread beyond Shaughnessy. No one is out there has been putting forward the other view. You are in la la land if you think so.

[example1]

But they do care. That's why they have PR people that take great pains to craft this public perception.

 

It's funny that we are saying the same thing with regard to the big picture. We both think they will be back in 2012. You have thought from the beginning that only minor tweaks are needed. I, on the other hand, have said that major changes would occur, and they have and I think we will continue to see some major changes. So, we basically agree on the major issue, but differ on the details of how it will be achieved. As usual, it escapes you when we are actually agreement.

 

I think the minor tweaks need to come on the field. The coaching stuff etc., is not what I have been referring to when I talk about changes. If ou get a new manager then you're going to get a new coaching staff. That's a given. The strength and conditioning guys, etc., are not major changes IMO--certainly not when compared to the changes some people here were advocating earlier: trade Beckett, trade Ellsbury, etc., Those would be MAJOR changes in my opinion. They might make the team better, if done correctly, but they shouldn't be done for the sake of doing something.

 

Neither you nor I form the perception. The likes of Shaughnessy do form the public's perception. That's the way it works. And that perception has spread beyond Shaughnessy. No one is out there has been putting forward the other view. You are in la la land if you think so.

 

From what I've seen, just about every component of the Sox current situation has people writing about it on both sides:

 

Managerial search:

1) It's a disaster, the FO totally backstabbed Ben the Boob!

vs.

2) Cherington and Lucchino both met with Valentine earlier in the process. They have not been presenting some of the bigger names they've met with. It's an over-reaction to say that Cherington is totally out of the loop.

 

Papelbon:

1) It's a disaster. They didn't even make an offer.

vs.

2) Everyone knew this was coming and, frankly, this is the biggest contract in history for a RP. Even some people in Philadelphia don't love this deal. Very risky.

 

Theo:

1) He's out. They didn't want him back and used many layers of trickery to get him out.

vs.

2) John Henry probably wanted him back. Theo said, independent of this situation, that he really didn't want to be around for more than 10 years and that is a legitimate business view.

 

You can find opinions on both sides of those coins. Those who say that the sky is falling are people who are picking low-hanging fruit related to all points #1 and this is a pattern for most of them.

[a700hitter]

I think the minor tweaks need to come on the field. The coaching stuff etc.' date=' is not what I have been referring to when I talk about changes. If ou get a new manager then you're going to get a new coaching staff. That's a given. The strength and conditioning guys, etc., are not major changes IMO--certainly not when compared to the changes some people here were advocating earlier: trade Beckett, trade Ellsbury, etc., Those would be MAJOR changes in my opinion. They might make the team better, if done correctly, but they shouldn't be done for the sake of doing something.[/quote'] I have said all along that there will be major changes on and off the field, but I have never advocated trading Ellsbury or Beckett. With regard to trading Ellsbury, you have clearly felt more favorable than me about that possibility.

 

 

From what I've seen, just about every component of the Sox current situation has people writing about it on both sides:

 

Managerial search:

1) It's a disaster, the FO totally backstabbed Ben the Boob!

vs.

2) Cherington and Lucchino both met with Valentine earlier in the process. They have not been presenting some of the bigger names they've met with. It's an over-reaction to say that Cherington is totally out of the loop.

 

Papelbon:

1) It's a disaster. They didn't even make an offer.

vs.

2) Everyone knew this was coming and, frankly, this is the biggest contract in history for a RP. Even some people in Philadelphia don't love this deal. Very risky.

 

Theo:

1) He's out. They didn't want him back and used many layers of trickery to get him out.

vs.

2) John Henry probably wanted him back. Theo said, independent of this situation, that he really didn't want to be around for more than 10 years and that is a legitimate business view.

 

You can find opinions on both sides of those coins. Those who say that the sky is falling are people who are picking low-hanging fruit related to all points #1 and this is a pattern for most of them.

People have been on both sides of individual issues, but no one is countering the perception of chaos, dysfunction and confusion on an overall basis. The coverage of the FO in the past had extolled their efficiency and acumen despite negative views of individual transactions. That is not the way they are being covered today.

[jung]

Arguably they have taken a number of bold steps already

 

Not saying that you have tossed your hat squarely in the "they have already made bold moves" camp since you have defined the point as Arguable. Honestly though, I think it would be hard to even argue for a case that you can characterize the moves the Sox have made so far as "bold".

 

Theo was going to be left with one year on his contract if the Sox did not extend it. Leaving Theo with one year left on his contract would not have been a good situation for anybody including Theo. However, Theo clearly had nowhere to go here in Boston. He was not going to move into LL's job and I don't even think Theo would want it based on the way LL has done it. So I really find it hard to call "letting him leave" a bold move. They could not really extend his contract and all parties would have had difficulty with leaving him in place especially at the point where a new Manager was going to come to town.

 

Tito's bed was made for him when they did not exercise his option at the start of the 2010-2011 season making him a lame duck and just about assuring his departure in the process. I guess they might have extended his contract at the end of the year if the team had performed either up to snuff or beyond expectations. However, there is no question that the FO made Tito's job harder by leaving him a lame duck from the start of the season. All by way of saying, I don't see how letting Tito go qualifies as a bold move. In fact in trying to make the whole thing look like a mutual decision, the Sox FO took the gutless route even in the way Tito departed.

 

As for the Pitching Coach, if capitol punishment were an option for Pitching Coaches, Young was well in line for that one. Can't call letting him go a bold move especially in light of the fact that the Manager was already gone by then.

 

Strength and Conditioning Coach...I would characterize that move as cowardly as opposed to bold and an effort to deflect blame from the players who are in a very real sense responsible for their conditioning in MLB unlike a pro sport like Football for example.

 

Medical staff.....has been a joke in Boston since Tom Yawkey was around. I don't understand why it has been so difficult to keep a competent Medical Staff in place in one of the world's great medical centers. I can only guess but my guess would be that there has been a tradition of taking the med staff for granted here and maybe the Sox have historically underpaid.

 

I would consider busting the Luxury Tax Threshold this year a bold move. So far they have shown no inclination to do that but I would consider that a bold move under the circumstances.

 

I might consider hiring Valentine a bold move not so much for his reputation for keeping players in line but because he has become something of a polarizing figure over the years. I think if they do hire Valentine it will not take much time for the audience to either herald it as a great success or judge it an unmitigated failure. I don't see much middle ground here. Hence I might consider that a bold move.

 

I would actually say that more than boldness, the Sox FO is going to have to exhibit courage and cleverness this offseason. they were certainly clever in the way they exercised the loophole in the lax rules when they delayed signing AGons. That was a clever move and I think they will have to be very clever this offseason.

 

I think they will have to exhibit courage as well because this looks so much like a year of damned if they do and damned if they don't. I don't think they will be able to keep more than 49% of the audience happy regardless of what they do. I am not saying that is business as usual around here either. It is indicative of the corner they have painted themselves into. However if the predicament they are in results in brain-lock and an inability to take any sort of recognizable position, they will disappoint 100% of the audience. They must have the courage take positions and to accept relatively low approval ratings for the positions that they do take.

[SoxSport]

I don't know how dysfunctional the Sox organization is, but they sure do look like they have gone soft

since the 07 Championship season. Especially the last two years. If it weren't for the September collapse this year, the media would have totally ignored the symptoms that were there. All the injuries, for one thing. And Theo spending money like a drunken sailor--on anti-moneyball free agents. The last couple years, the FO looked like it was spending money--just because it was there and had to be spent. Now they are in a situation where they are locked into heavy contracts and have to stop spending.

 

I happen to think they got rid of the major problems--the manager and the GM. Now they have to find the right people to fill the holes. Cherington was probably the right choice--a saber guy Henry/Lucchino could put on a leash. After Theo, that would appear to be necessary. And after some stumbling, maybe they have figured out who they need for a manager. Somebody who is not an apologist for the GM and the players, and who can manage a game on the field. Maybe it's time to put the GM back in its place.

[a700hitter]

Not saying that you have tossed your hat squarely in the "they have already made bold moves" camp since you have defined the point as Arguable. Honestly though, I think it would be hard to even argue for a case that you can characterize the moves the Sox have made so far as "bold".

 

Theo was going to be left with one year on his contract if the Sox did not extend it. Leaving Theo with one year left on his contract would not have been a good situation for anybody including Theo. However, Theo clearly had nowhere to go here in Boston. He was not going to move into LL's job and I don't even think Theo would want it based on the way LL has done it. So I really find it hard to call "letting him leave" a bold move. They could not really extend his contract and all parties would have had difficulty with leaving him in place especially at the point where a new Manager was going to come to town.

.

I think changing the manager and GM and lots of other FO functions is a significant change of direction. You may not like to call them "bold" moves and maybe that is the wrong term, but they certainly took decisive action. People can argue that the writing was on the wall for these moves, but I don't think any of those moves are made if the 2011 team went to the ALCS, the WS or won a World Championship.

[RonVermette]

Right, we have no idea what happened in September, but heads have got to roll!