2011 Trade Deadline Thread

[Dojji]

f*** that I'd like to see Jimenez here in a heartbeat.

 

You gotta do this with an eye on the future, not just the present.

 

Not saying don't get Jimenez at all cost, but do it with an eye on the most you're willing to pay. DON'T just go nuts. If COL asks too much, have a Plan B.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I'll take a WS this year and worry about the future later

[BornToRun]

I'll take a WS this year and worry about the future later

 

Well think about it this way. We could win it this year as is, do we dump our future chances at the WS to make our chances this year better? Now consider that if we don't win the WS, the Yankees might. And no one, no one with a soul at least, wants to see the Yankees do well. f*** those bastards.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Then you make the neccesary moves in the off season. The Yankees will never go away we just happened to be really lucky in 2008.

[MNSoxChief102]

But we've already stripped our farm system twice in the last 2 years' date=' can we really do so a third time without hurting our ability to sustain a winner?[/quote']

 

In a word... Yes.

 

The Sox FO is one of the best in the business at finding talent at every level. Every year, we have multiple high round draft picks and end up getting guys that have the talent to be taken much higher but slid due to injury, signability, etc. We can and will replenish the farm if Theo decides Jiminez is worth it and goes all in on him.

[Palodios]

Well think about it this way. We could win it this year as is' date=' do we dump our future chances at the WS to make our chances this year better? Now consider that if we don't win the WS, the Yankees might. And no one, no one with a soul at least, wants to see the Yankees do well. f*** those bastards.[/quote']

 

Never assume your team is going to win the World Series. If there is a move to make this team significantly better, you do it. Weiland, Doubront, Middlebrooks + 1 more position player of their choice. Get it done.

[BornToRun]

Never assume your team is going to win the World Series. If there is a move to make this team significantly better' date=' you do it. Weiland, Doubront, Middlebrooks + 1 more. Get it done.[/quote']

 

I was more trying to be funny and less trying to make a coherent point, I agree with what you're saying though.

[Thunder]

Any chance the Skanks will grab Ubaldo? End of the world as we know it.

[Dojji]

That would be a deal I could endorse. If there's one top prospect we can spare it's Middlebrooks. I'm just guessing here, but I'd say it's unlikely the Rockies would fail to ask for Ranaudo. The deal likely looks more like Middlebrooks, Ranaudpo + 1 MLB ready pitcher (Doubront/Weiland) + a B guy.

[BornToRun]

Any chance the Skanks will grab Ubaldo? End of the world as we know it.

 

The price is too high for them, The Bumble Bee's plus Montero is what I've been hearing. Ubaldo ain't cheap.

[Palodios]

Last I heard, the Yankees won't throw in Banuelos, which really hurt trade talks.

[AtWork]

A few things to consider about a Jiminez deal.

 

His fastball is down 2 mph this year and his slider is down 3 mph.

His line drive rate is up about 2% from his career norm.

He's giving up a hit more per 9 IP than his career average.

Will Middlebrooks could eventually be the successor to Kevin Youkilis.

 

I'm not saying that I wouldn't make the deal, but I don't think this is an easy call

[FredLynn]

Here is how important pitching is to winning rings. Listed are the AL champs along with their position in terms of ERA and their actual ERA:

 

2010: Rangers; 4 (3.93)

2009: Yankees; 4 (4.26)

2008: Rays; 2 (3.82)

2007: Sox; 1 (3.87)

2006: Tigers; 1 (3.84)

2005: White Sox 2 (3.61)

2004: Red Sox; 3 (4.18)

2003: Yankees; 3 (4.02)

2002: Angels; 2 (3.69)

2001: Yankees; 3 (4.02)

 

Right now:

2011: Red Sox; 9 (3.93)

 

See the pattern? Over the last decade no team had finished less than FOURTH in ERA in the league and won a AL championship.

Conclusion: we do not have a snowball's chance in hell with our current pitching staff; we need a quality SP NOW

[Palodios]

Here is how important pitching is to winning rings. Listed are the AL champs along with their position in terms of ERA and their actual ERA:

 

2010: Rangers; 4 (3.93)

2009: Yankees; 4 (4.26)

2008: Rays; 2 (3.82)

2007: Sox; 1 (3.87)

2006: Tigers; 1 (3.84)

2005: White Sox 2 (3.61)

2004: Red Sox; 3 (4.18)

2003: Yankees; 3 (4.02)

2002: Angels; 2 (3.69)

2001: Yankees; 3 (4.02)

 

Right now:

2011: Red Sox; 9 (3.93)

 

See the pattern? Over the last decade no team had finished less than FOURTH in ERA in the league and won a AL championship.

Conclusion: we do not have a snowball's chance in hell with our current pitching staff; we need a quality SP NOW

 

This is misleading because of how unbalanced the Red Sox's staff is now though. The difference between Beckett/Lester and Miller/Lackey in terms of ERA is unreal.

[FredLynn]

This is misleading because of how unbalanced the Red Sox's staff is now though. The difference between Beckett/Lester and Miller/Lackey in terms of ERA is unreal.

 

Not misleading at all. Its a fact: NO TEAM HAS WON THE ALCS WITH AN OVERALL TEAM ERA IN LESS THAN THE #4 POSITION IN THE LAST DECADE. That is not disputable. Neither is the fact that we are now at #9. Furthermore, last I checked, Miller, Lackey, Wakefield, and Williams are all still performing for the team and are on the active roster.

[AtWork]

Not misleading at all. Its a fact: NO TEAM HAS WON THE ALCS WITH AN OVERALL TEAM ERA IN LESS THAN THE #4 POSITION IN THE LAST DECADE. That is not disputable. Neither is the fact that we are now at #9. Furthermore' date=' last I checked, Miller, Lackey, Wakefield, and Williams are all still performing for the team and are on the active roster.[/quote']

 

No team has won a World Series after starting the season 2-10 either. That doesn't mean one won't.

[Palodios]

Not misleading at all. Its a fact: NO TEAM HAS WON THE ALCS WITH AN OVERALL TEAM ERA IN LESS THAN THE #4 POSITION IN THE LAST DECADE. That is not disputable. Neither is the fact that we are now at #9. Furthermore' date=' last I checked, Miller, Lackey, Wakefield, and Williams are all still performing for the team and are on the active roster.[/quote']

 

YES IT IS DESPUTABLE WHEN THE GUYS WHO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT ERA AREN'T ALL PLAYING. Seriously, this team has two aces. It very well may have four by the time the postseason starts. Who cares how well the #5 guy does in the playoffs?

[AtWork]

Last I heard' date=' the Yankees won't throw in Banuelos, which really hurt trade talks.[/quote']

 

Joel Sherman of the New York Post says that the Yankees would only package Jesus Montero and Dellin Betances in the same deal in exchange for a sure thing, and they don't view Jimenez as a sure thing.

Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears that talks between the Yankees and Rockies have not gone well (Twitter link).

 

Makes sense. Betances is way more hyped up than Weiland.

[Will617]

Never assume your team is going to win the World Series. If there is a move to make this team significantly better' date=' you do it. Weiland, Doubront, Middlebrooks + 1 more position player of their choice. Get it done.[/quote']

 

Never assume your team is going to win the World Series. Therefore, don't mortgage the farm for a move that may not have an impact on your team's playoff performance.

[Will617]

Not misleading at all. Its a fact: NO TEAM HAS WON THE ALCS WITH AN OVERALL TEAM ERA IN LESS THAN THE #4 POSITION IN THE LAST DECADE. That is not disputable. Neither is the fact that we are now at #9. Furthermore' date=' last I checked, Miller, Lackey, Wakefield, and Williams are all still performing for the team and are on the active roster.[/quote']

 

No team that has Adrian Gonzalez has ever won a World Series. That is not disputable.

[AtWork]

No team that has Adrian Gonzalez has ever won a World Series. That is not disputable.

 

[FredLynn]

YES IT IS DESPUTABLE WHEN THE GUYS WHO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT ERA AREN'T ALL PLAYING. Seriously' date=' this team has two aces. It very well may have four by the time the postseason starts. Who cares how well the #5 guy does in the playoffs?[/quote']

 

What I posted is an INDISPUTABLE FACT. Its silly to argue that the fact is not true. You can try to explain the fact or justify your position relative to that fact, but it IS still a fact.

Look, PITCHING AND DEFENSE WINS RINGS. I believe that saying. We have very good defense, but very mediocre pitching. When you have stiffs like Lackey, Wakefield, Miller, and Williams on the team you cannot win a ring. Lackey and Wakefield are going nowhere, though both stink. We have to get rid of Miller and Williams and UPGRADE if we are going to have a chance to win the WS.

IMO.

[a700hitter]

Never assume your team is going to win the World Series. Therefore' date=' don't mortgage the farm for a move that may not have an impact on your team's playoff performance.[/quote']The years when your team is one of the top 2-3 teams in all of baseball is rare. Those are the years when you make the moves to put the team over the top. There is plenty of time to fix the future, but only 2 more days to fix the present.

[FredLynn]

No team that has Adrian Gonzalez has ever won a World Series. That is not disputable.

 

Its also irrelevant.

No one has won the WS in April either. Should we consider that?

[AtWork]

BTW

 

Betances - 3.35 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 7.05 H/9, 4.29 BB/9, 10.41 K/9

Weiland - 3.37 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 7.30 H/9, 3.33 B/9, 8.67 K/9

 

*Weiland is 24 and his stats include A-AAA. Betances is 23 and his stats include Rk-AA.

[Will617]

Its also irrelevant.

No one has won the WS in April either. Should we consider that?

 

Just because you cheery-picked a certain fact doesn't mean it's now a rule to make the postseason. Your argument is so easily explained by other factors - Teams with s***** ERAs don't make the postseason, in the postseason good teams lose all the time, etc., that it isn't even worth mentioning as an argument for acquiring better pitching.

Also, last I checked the season's still not over, and we're still missing Lester and Buchholz but could reasonably expect for them to show up by the end of it.

[redsoxbeatz]

Not misleading at all. Its a fact: NO TEAM HAS WON THE ALCS WITH AN OVERALL TEAM ERA IN LESS THAN THE #4 POSITION IN THE LAST DECADE. That is not disputable. Neither is the fact that we are now at #9. Furthermore' date=' last I checked, Miller, Lackey, Wakefield, and Williams are all still performing for the team and are on the active roster.[/quote']

 

Oh. I get it. You mean Ranked #4? lmao. I was so confused at first. I was like "in less than the #4 position??" .

 

We need pitching, yup. Giants beat Texas 'cause of pitching.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I've thought about it a little more. Here are our holes for the next few years, outside of the SP hole which is what this team is attempting to fill right now.

 

SS - Iglesias is the "SS of the future", if he can ever get his bat up to a reasonable level. Scutaro has an option for 2012, which will give Iggy an extra year, if need be. His glove is so good that we can call him up a little early and let him polish off his offensive development in the MLB level. Bogaerts is only 18 and has drawn comparisons to Asdrubal Cabrera, so if Iglesias doesn't pan out, we have insurance or a good future trade chip.

 

3B - Youk is under contract through 2013, and will surely be re upped once his contract expires. Once it expires, though, he may be moved into a DH role. Best replacement at 3B is Middlebrooks, Cecchini, and Vitek, all of which are top 20 prospects in our organization. This makes Middlebrooks at least reasonably expendible.

 

C - Saltalamacchia is making huge strides. Lavarnway doesn't have the best defensive skills, but they are developing nicely. His offense is MLB ready, though. If the FO thinks that Salty is the future, then Lavarnway is expendible.

 

RF - Kalish/Reddick. Keep one (or both) of these guys because they're going to play a big part of our future.

 

So basically, if we can pull the trigger on a deal with Middlebrooks + Ranaudo + Weiland, we would be replacing our biggest weakness (P) without mortgaging our future. Obviously young pitching is a premium, but the Sox just drafted Barnes and have some significant arms in the wings. Not only that, but the Red Sox would have a rotation of Beckett - Lester - Jimenez - Buchholz - Lackey through 2014 (including club options for Jimenez).

 

Kolbrin Vitek, the Sox 2010 first rounder, draws comparisons to Michael Young, and could be up in the MLB by late, 2013, which would be about the same time you would want to filter in a new 3B for Youkilis. Outside of that, you've got your entire team locked up for years with unbelievable talent, so a trade involving some of the better prospects wouldn't necessarily hurt the club too bad.

[SoxSport]

This looks like a segway into a political discussion regarding the tiered tax system' date=' which turns into [b']welfare, tax the rich save the poor, [/b]etc. I'm not going to get into that. That is the least of the things that should be on the TalkSox trade thread

 

Yeah, we're all on welfare, except for Curt Schilling, who's paying for it with his tax cuts.

[AtWork]

Over the last 30 years, only 13% of teams that won 100+ games went on to represent their league in the World Series. That is an indisputable fact. If we want to get to the World Series, we need to start losing games!