2011 Trade Deadline Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

That goes both ways. Are we really going to judge what kind of a player is by his age 21 and 22 stats in the minors?

 

There's an absolutely HUGE difference in judging what kind of a player will be based on performance early in his career vs tempering your expectations about what he's going to do in a postseason after you've seen 120 great AB at the MLB level.

[AtWork]

Sox still in on Ubaldo Jimenez, one of five teams in on Kuroda as need for pitching becomes more pronounced, w/Buchholz pushed back

 

From Gordon Edes an hour ago.

[AtWork]

There's an absolutely HUGE difference in judging what kind of a player early in his career vs tempering your expectations about what he's going to do in a postseason after you've seen 120 great AB at the MLB level.

 

I don't see anyone saying that they expect him to do really well in the postseason. I see plenty of people judging him by his minor league stats though.

[ORS]

There's an absolutely HUGE difference in judging what kind of a player early in his career vs tempering your expectations about what he's going to do in a postseason after you've seen 120 great AB at the MLB level.

Were you concerned when Ellsbury was the starting CF going into the '07 playoffs? Very similar story lines.

 

Yes, I know that has no predictive value at all, but the point is, all this hand wringing seems like making a mountain out of a molehill.

[AtWork]

Were you concerned when Ellsbury was the starting CF going into the '07 playoffs? Very similar story lines.

 

Yes, I know that has no predictive value at all, but the point is, all this hand wringing seems like making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

It's downright bizarre that there's so much worry about our RF considering how poorly 3/5ths of our starting rotation is pitching.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Were you concerned when Ellsbury was the starting CF going into the '07 playoffs? Very similar story lines.

 

Yes, I know that has no predictive value at all, but the point is, all this hand wringing seems like making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I could say the same thing about how Lowrie came in this season and was hitting .370 through about 100 PA, and then his stock completely plummeted. That's a similar storyline of a player getting whitehot and playing well beyond his talent, and then faltering.

 

I'll say this one more time. I'm not saying that Reddick will suck this season. I'm not saying that he will not be a fantastic player as he matures. I'm saying it's going to take more than 120 AB in the MLB for me to just disregard his subpar performance at the minor league level.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's downright bizarre that there's so much worry about our RF considering how poorly 3/5ths of our starting rotation is pitching.

 

For the record, I'm a huge advocate of getting Ubaldo.

[Dojji]

Stay away from Ubaldo. The cost to reward ratio is terrible.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Stay away from Ubaldo. The cost to reward ratio is terrible.

 

Coors kills him. 5.50 ERA at home, 2.83 ERA in away games. I think a700 mentioned something about Coors affecting his breaking stuff. His K/9 is almost 2 K's higher in away games as well.

[Jasonbay44]

Im all for Ubaldo as long as the cost is reasonable. I dont think he is a guy you sell the whole farm for.

[Dojji]

Problem is I'm kinda thinking Fenway Park may have a similar effect.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Problem is I'm kinda thinking Fenway Park may have a similar effect.

 

I was under the assumption that it was altitude related regarding his breaking stuff.

 

FWIW, he threw 7 IP, 2 ER, 4 hits, 7 K's @NYY this year.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Like they said no to Beltran. Too much media buildup there.

Like if they would go big for pitching. Like Jiminez.

Like if they would go big for SS. Like Hanley.

Like this post.

 

Is this facebook?

[Dojji]

I was under the assumption that it was altitude related regarding his breaking stuff.

 

FWIW, he threw 7 IP, 2 ER, 4 hits, 7 K's @NYY this year.

 

Swap that for one of the best doubles parks in the big leagues though.

[AtWork]

Coors kills him. 5.50 ERA at home' date=' 2.83 ERA in away games. I think a700 mentioned something about [b']Coors affecting his breaking stuff[/b]. His K/9 is almost 2 K's higher in away games as well.

 

It does. Because the air is thinner, it offers less friction against the stitches of the baseball which is what causes the baseball to change directions on a breaking pitch. It's also more physically taxing to pitch there because of the altitude.

[AtWork]

Problem is I'm kinda thinking Fenway Park may have a similar effect.

 

Coors allows 20% more runs than Fenway.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Swap that for one of the best doubles parks in the big leagues though.

 

But he is a RHP facing a LH heavy line up with all their switch hitters in a ridiculous HR park for LH hitters. And he was able to keep the ball in the yard there.

[Jasonbay44]

Coors allows 20% more runs than Fenway.

 

+ he also wont have to face the Red Sox offense. I think Jimenez would be fine at Fenway.

[AtWork]

If we could some how pull off a trade for Jiminez based on Weiland, that would be a dream come true. But I find it hardly unlikely. Either someone heard Weiland mentioned as one of many players in a potential package for Jiminez or this is an attempt to scare the Yankees into thinking we'll get Jiminez for a B prospect if they don't up their offer.

[SoxFanForsyth]

+ he also wont have to face the Red Sox offense. I think Jimenez would be fine at Fenway.

 

He'll be better than DiceK (DL), Miller, and Wakefield. He's better than any FA pitcher for 2012 and at a fraction of the cost during his peak seasons. The Sox have a legitimate hole in their rotation next season that could be addressed much more effectively via a trade. Now, whether they wait for the offseason and assess what trades are available at that point (i.e. Felix), then that's one thing. But if they want to get someone in here now that can be effective for the post season in the chance that Buchholz doesn't come back as an effective pitcher this season, Jimenez is the right choice.

[mvp 78]

The one thing that'll help Ubaldo's transition is his growing reliance on his off-speed stuff. Would love to have him here.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If we could some how pull off a trade for Jiminez based on Weiland' date=' that would be a dream come true. But I find it hardly unlikely. Either someone heard Weiland mentioned as one of many players in a potential package for Jiminez or this is an attempt to scare the Yankees into thinking we'll get Jiminez for a B prospect if they don't up their offer.[/quote']

 

I think the correlation with Weiland is that the Rox want an MLB ready pitcher along with 2 other can't miss prospects. That would be Weiland + 2 of Ranaudo, Lavarnway, or Middlebrooks as far as I can see it.

 

I don't think Weiland would be the centerpiece, but he would be the MLB ready player.

 

EDIT: It's gotta be an MLB ready arm, not player.

[ORS]

I could say the same thing about how Lowrie came in this season and was hitting .370 through about 100 PA, and then his stock completely plummeted. That's a similar storyline of a player getting whitehot and playing well beyond his talent, and then faltering.

 

I'll say this one more time. I'm not saying that Reddick will suck this season. I'm not saying that he will not be a fantastic player as he matures. I'm saying it's going to take more than 120 AB in the MLB for me to just disregard his subpar performance at the minor league level.

Awful example. He was hot, he got cold....this happens to every player. He was also hot in the MLB last year. This is why you take larger samples. Things like BABIP tend to normalize, and you get a clearer picture of what that player really is in terms of expectation.

 

Josh Reddick is an extremely better ball player than the one month+ sample you are using to justify tossing him aside for.

 

Players are going to get cold, it happens, no need to run around like the sky is falling when they do. If that cold streak happens in the playoffs, so be it, you can't control that. There are several current and future HOF players who did not shine in the playoffs.

[Dojji]

Lavarnway could be hitting full time for the Red Sox this time next year depending on what happens with Ortiz. I don't touch him. Middlebrooks is less important as we have Youkilis.

 

I wouldn't do the trade. But I can see how you could justify it.

[Dojji]

There are several current and future HOF players who did not shine in the playoffs.

 

Do we know only too well.

[AtWork]

Lavarnway could be hitting full time for the Red Sox this time next year depending on what happens with Ortiz. I don't touch him. Middlebrooks is less important as we have Youkilis.

 

I wouldn't do the trade. But I can see how you could justify it.

 

I would do it because Jiminez is still young and under contract for a while and not only does it address our biggest need this year, but also our biggest need in the offseason and beyond.

[AtWork]

Do we know only too well.

 

He played 7 games. Lay off Ted!

[Dojji]

I actually like the idea of bringing in Francoeur. He feels like a good Fenway hitter, and he's a good defender at either corner outfield post. If Reddick starts to have trouble with lefties he'd be a good guy to have around, and he could platoon with Crawford to our benefit right now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Awful example. He was hot, he got cold....this happens to every player. He was also hot in the MLB last year. This is why you take larger samples. Things like BABIP tend to normalize, and you get a clearer picture of what that player really is in terms of expectation.

 

Josh Reddick is an extremely better ball player than the one month+ sample you are using to justify tossing him aside for.

 

Players are going to get cold, it happens, no need to run around like the sky is falling when they do. If that cold streak happens in the playoffs, so be it, you can't control that. There are several current and future HOF players who did not shine in the playoffs.

 

All I'm saying is that he's having very new success. Is this an extreme hot streak? Yes. What kind of a player can we expect to have? Who knows, normalize his BABIP and he's a .295 hitter. Will he continue to improve his plate discipline? That's always been his issue. Is he going to have platoon issues? Just bringing up questions that we don't have the answer for that are legitimate questions.

 

But it doesn't matter, I'm completely fine with keeping him. We need to deal for a SP, and this has gotten blown way out of proportion, so I'm done with this debate.

[Dojji]

.295/.335/.553, if you use IsoD and IsoP and just plug 'em in. The power in particular will probably be a bit less, maybe ..480-.500 but that's still a decent player.