2011 Trade Deadline Thread

[AtWork]

Our pitching staff is mediocre. As it stands right now we are ranked #9 of the 14 AL teams. Our SP is mediocre' date=' comprised of two aces and three bums, [b']and our bullpen is mediocre as well, what with Morales and Williams there-and potentially Jenks when he returns[/b].

 

Really? Our bullpen WAR is 3rd in baseball. Papelbon has a 3.59 ERA, 1.10 WHIP and has converted 23 of 24 save opportunities. Bard has a 1.81 ERA and 0.83 WHIP. Albers has a 2.09 ERA and 1.19 WHIP, Aceves has a 3.28 ERA and 1.16 WHIP (2.50 ERA as a reliever). Wheeler has an ERA of 1.93 and a WHIP of 0.86 since coming off he DL in May.

 

Yet you're focused on Williams and Jenks?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Really? Our bullpen WAR is 3rd in baseball. Papelbon has a 3.59 ERA, 1.10 WHIP and has converted 23 of 24 save opportunities. Bard has a 1.81 ERA and 0.83 WHIP. Albers has a 2.09 ERA and 1.19 WHIP, Aceves has a 3.28 ERA and 1.16 WHIP (2.50 ERA as a reliever). Wheeler has an ERA of 1.93 and a WHIP of 0.86 since coming off he DL in May.

 

Yet you're focused on Williams and Jenks?

 

Plus Dennys Reyes' stats are still affecting our BP ERA

[FredLynn]

Really? Our bullpen WAR is 3rd in baseball. Papelbon has a 3.59 ERA, 1.10 WHIP and has converted 23 of 24 save opportunities. Bard has a 1.81 ERA and 0.83 WHIP. Albers has a 2.09 ERA and 1.19 WHIP, Aceves has a 3.28 ERA and 1.16 WHIP (2.50 ERA as a reliever). Wheeler has an ERA of 1.93 and a WHIP of 0.86 since coming off he DL in May.

 

Yet you're focused on Williams and Jenks?

 

Are Williams and Jenks going to be on the postseason roster? How about Morales, ERA 4.26?

I admit that the pen is better off than our rotation, but we need BOTH to be top flight to compete for a ring. Hitting alone will not get us to where we want to be, even with two very good SP.

[AtWork]

Are Williams and Jenks going to be on the postseason roster? How about Morales, ERA 4.26?

I admit that the pen is better off than our rotation, but we need BOTH to be top flight to compete for a ring. Hitting alone will not get us to where we want to be, even with two very good SP.

 

Our pen is top flight. And with so many great options in Papelbon, Bard, Alberts, Aceves and Wheeler there's no reason why anyone else would see important innings in the playoffs. It's not like we only have 2 solid relievers.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Are Williams and Jenks going to be on the postseason roster? How about Morales, ERA 4.26?

I admit that the pen is better off than our rotation, but we need BOTH to be top flight to compete for a ring. Hitting alone will not get us to where we want to be, even with two very good SP.

 

Do you know how many days off you get in a post season run? You play about 4 games a week if each series goes to 5/7/7. You're not wearing out your bullpen arms, which means Albers, Aceves, Bard, and Pap will be available virtually every game. Plus Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz all go deep into games. You're not going to need your janitors (i.e. Williams) to come in and try to keep a game close.

[BornToRun]

Are Williams and Jenks going to be on the postseason roster? How about Morales, ERA 4.26?

I admit that the pen is better off than our rotation, but we need BOTH to be top flight to compete for a ring. Hitting alone will not get us to where we want to be, even with two very good SP.

 

If there's a weakness on this team, it's the rotation. There is not a solid argument that can be made towards our pen and offense being weak. All we need is a back end of the rotation starter to solidify things, our top three is as good as anybody elses and if we can add another guy to the tail end of that, we'll be that much better. But right now, I'm not worried too much. If we add Bedard or Jimenez, it's game over for NYY and anybody else who gets in the way. At least I'm confident that that'll be the case.

[FredLynn]

Nobody is arguing that we don't need more pitching. We all agree that we need more pitching. The only thing that is being disagreed upon is that we don't have to be in the top 4 of the AL in pitching staff ERA to win the WS.

 

Its POSSIBLE to win a ring and not be in the top 4 in pitching; it just hasn't happened in a decade, and with good reason IMO.

I think that the Yankees are a much better balanced team right now, unfortunately. They are #3 in overall pitching. I posted this on another board:

 

I think that in order to have any chance for a ring we will need to upgrade both our SP and pen by one arm each and eliminate the bottom feeders in both categories. Right now the Mariners are at #4 in ERA in the AL at 3.55. Assuming that we will need to at least equal that and assuming that the Yankees will be our major competition for the AL pennant we can look at who on each pitching staff is over the 3.55 number and who is below it:

 

Under 3.55:

 

Red Sox: Bard (1.81)

Albers (2.09)

Beckett (2.17)

Lester (3.23)

Aceves (3.28)

(Buchholtz-3.48)

Yankees: Garrison (0.00-new)

Ayala (1.24)

Robertson (1.54)

Rivera (1.83)

Wade (1.88)

CC (2.56)

Garcia (3.23)

Colon (3.29)

Logan (3.29)

Noesi (3.34)

 

Pitchers over 3.55:

 

Red Sox: Papelbon (3.59)

Morales (4.23)

Wheeler (4.67)

Wakefield (5.15)

Miller (5.45)

Lackey (6.20)

Williams (9.53)

Yankees: Nova (4.12)

Burnett (4.21)

Hughes (8.24)

 

You can see that the Yankees are a much superior club when it comes to pitching right now. I think we would be best served by getting rid of Williams and replacing him with an excellent LHRP and releasing Miller and getting a very good #3-4 SP (4 if CB returns). Wakefield would be in the pen and his job would be mopup only. In the playoffs we would then have a competitive SP rotation of Beckett/Lester/CB or new guy/new guy or....gulp...Lackey. In the pen we have Papelbon (not NEARLY as good as the Yankee closer)/Bard/Albers/Aceves/Wheeler (ERA since May 21, his return date from the DL: 1.84 with a BAA of .185)/new guy/and Wakefield for mopup duty. Morales's tenure would depend on whether or not CB comes back.

Thats the best we can do right now. Given the failures of Wakefield, Lackey, Miller, Jenks, and Williams it may not be good enough, especially when you look at the Yankee pitching staff. But I will tell you this: if we don't upgrade BOTH our starting rotation and our pen by at least one arm each, we will be promptly bounced out before we can reach the WS.

[BornToRun]

Its POSSIBLE to win a ring and not be in the top 4 in pitching; it just hasn't happened in a decade, and with good reason IMO.

I think that the Yankees are a much better balanced team right now, unfortunately. They are #3 in overall pitching. I posted this on another board:

 

I think that in order to have any chance for a ring we will need to upgrade both our SP and pen by one arm each and eliminate the bottom feeders in both categories. Right now the Mariners are at #4 in ERA in the AL at 3.55. Assuming that we will need to at least equal that and assuming that the Yankees will be our major competition for the AL pennant we can look at who on each pitching staff is over the 3.55 number and who is below it:

 

Under 3.55:

 

Red Sox: Bard (1.81)

Albers (2.09)

Beckett (2.17)

Lester (3.23)

Aceves (3.28)

(Buchholtz-3.48)

Yankees: Garrison (0.00-new)

Ayala (1.24)

Robertson (1.54)

Rivera (1.83)

Wade (1.88)

CC (2.56)

Garcia (3.23)

Colon (3.29)

Logan (3.29)

Noesi (3.34)

 

Pitchers over 3.55:

 

Red Sox: Papelbon (3.59)

Morales (4.23)

Wheeler (4.67)

Wakefield (5.15)

Miller (5.45)

Lackey (6.20)

Williams (9.53)

Yankees: Nova (4.12)

Burnett (4.21)

Hughes (8.24)

 

You can see that the Yankees are a much superior club when it comes to pitching right now. I think we would be best served by getting rid of Williams and replacing him with an excellent LHRP and releasing Miller and getting a very good #3-4 SP (4 if CB returns). Wakefield would be in the pen and his job would be mopup only. In the playoffs we would then have a competitive SP rotation of Beckett/Lester/CB or new guy/new guy or....gulp...Lackey. In the pen we have Papelbon (not NEARLY as good as the Yankee closer)/Bard/Albers/Aceves/Wheeler (ERA since May 21, his return date from the DL: 1.84 with a BAA of .185)/new guy/and Wakefield for mopup duty. Morales's tenure would depend on whether or not CB comes back.

Thats the best we can do right now. Given the failures of Wakefield, Lackey, Miller, Jenks, and Williams it may not be good enough, especially when you look at the Yankee pitching staff. But I will tell you this: if we don't upgrade BOTH our starting rotation and our pen by at least one arm each, we will be promptly bounced out before we can reach the WS.

 

You have no idea how hard this made me laugh. The Yankees can't hold a candle to us.

[jacksonianmarch]

You have no idea how hard this made me laugh. The Yankees can't hold a candle to us.

 

I'd be careful before completely blowing off your only real competition for the AL pennant. The Yanks are good, and are one pitcher from being just as concerning. And for all we know, that pitcher may already be in the rotation

[BornToRun]

I'd be careful before completely blowing off your only real competition for the AL pennant. The Yanks are good' date=' and are one pitcher from being just as concerning. And for all we know, that pitcher may already be in the rotation[/quote']

 

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'd be careful before completely blowing off your only real competition for the AL pennant. The Yanks are good' date=' and are one pitcher from being just as concerning. And for all we know, that pitcher may already be in the rotation[/quote']

 

:lol:

 

New gameplan when Colon pitches. Everybody bunt.

[a700hitter]

I'd be careful before completely blowing off your only real competition for the AL pennant. The Yanks are good' date=' and are one pitcher from being just as concerning. And for all we know, that pitcher may already be in the rotation[/quote']In whose rotation?

[redsoxbeatz]

I don't think we'll sweep the Yanks again. 2 out of 3 probz

[Palodios]

I'd be careful before completely blowing off your only real competition for the AL pennant. The Yanks are good' date=' and are one pitcher from being just as concerning. And for all we know, that pitcher may already be in the rotation[/quote']

 

There is no chance the Yankees get past the Rangers/Angels. Garcia and Colon can only put off retirement for so long.

[iortiz]

Nope. I was backing you up. Felix and Ubaldo go nowhere at the deadline unless someone panics and overpays. Those names get floated in the hopes that someone does. The Rockies and Mariners are not going to accept fair deals for those two pitchers.

 

What would be a fair deal for you in order to bring Jimenez or the King?... What?

 

I mean, put yourself in the other side of the equation; what would you demand, if Beckett was the case?

 

I would ask for the best, not less, since I'm trading my best card in the rotation these days; so... giving up at least 2-3 top prospects and probably something more would be a fair deal for me if I want a super star MLB player like Felix or Ubaldo.

[Dojji]

If we were floating Lester I'd want to clean a team out.

 

That's why I'm saying what I'm saying about the Rockies and Ubaldo.

 

Now take a team who has maybe one or two guys who could be their pillars to give them a shot (one) at the playoffs. You don't think they'd want even more?

[Thunder]

Here is how important pitching is to winning rings. Listed are the AL champs along with their position in terms of ERA and their actual ERA:

 

2010: Rangers; 4 (3.93)

2009: Yankees; 4 (4.26)

2008: Rays; 2 (3.82)

2007: Sox; 1 (3.87)

2006: Tigers; 1 (3.84)

2005: White Sox 2 (3.61)

2004: Red Sox; 3 (4.18)

2003: Yankees; 3 (4.02)

2002: Angels; 2 (3.69)

2001: Yankees; 3 (4.02)

 

Right now:

2011: Red Sox; 9 (3.93)

 

See the pattern? Over the last decade no team had finished less than FOURTH in ERA in the league and won a AL championship.

Conclusion: we do not have a snowball's chance in hell with our current pitching staff; we need a quality SP NOW

 

The way our offense is going, we could win the World Series with a ERA of 10.

[AtWork]

CHICAGO - The Red Sox will have to make a quick evaluation of Seattle lefty Erik Bedard based on one start tonight vs. the Tampa Bay Rays.

 

This will be Bedard's first start since coming off the disabled list for a knee peroblem. How will they know if Bedard is healthy enough to deal for?

 

"If he's throwing that electric curve ball, we'll know he's all right," said one Red Sox official.

 

The Red Sox are very much in on Hiroki Kuroda and are monitoring Ubaldo Jimenez, but the price there might be prohibitive.

 

Starting pitcher has probably become Boston's No. 1 priority now that Clay Buchholz had a setback. Buchholz is scheduled to get checked out Monday in Los Angeles by back specialist Dr. Robert Watkins.

[AtWork]

In whose rotation?

 

 

He should consider a career in comedy.

[Thunder]

No Bedard. Please...

[yankees228]

People here essentially laughing at the Yankees chances is funny. They're not as good as the Red Sox, but a 61-41 record with a +131 run differential are pretty good signs that the team is a legitimate contender.

[Palodios]

People here essentially laughing at the Yankees chances is funny. They're not as good as the Red Sox' date=' but a 61-41 record with a +131 run differential are pretty good signs that the team is a legitimate contender.[/quote']

 

Don't get me wrong, they're a good team. But Colon and Garcia as your 2nd and 3th best pitchers? Especially considering the huge losses they've had to their bullpen. The Red Sox will outslug bad pitching, especially since the Yankee's pitching staff is almost entirely right handed outside of CC. Haren/Weaver scare me more.

[Dojji]

Pretty much. Either one of Colon or Garcia might not turn back into a pumpkin by September. Leaning your playoff hopes on both is foolish.

[yankees228]

Don't get me wrong' date=' they're a good team. But Colon and Garcia as your 2nd and 3th best pitchers? Especially considering the huge losses they've had to their bullpen. The Red Sox will outslug bad pitching, especially since the Yankee's pitching staff is almost entirely right handed outside of CC. Haren/Weaver scare me more.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I agree, I don't think the Yankees can beat the Red Sox right now. That's why I feel like they need to add someone like Ubaldo ... that would bring the teams much closer. And yeah, Weaver and Haren could get really hot and beat the Yankees in a short series, but the Yankees do a lot of other things better than the Angels would I think would still give them the edge.

[Dojji]

The Yankees need to go get Ubaldo if for no other reason than to improve their leverage when trying to stay off the barrel CC wants to put them over with that absurd opt-out clause of his..

[a700hitter]

Yeah' date=' I agree, I don't think the Yankees can beat the Red Sox right now. That's why I feel like they need to add someone like Ubaldo ... that would bring the teams much closer. And yeah, Weaver and Haren could get really hot and beat the Yankees in a short series, but the Yankees do a lot of other things better than the Angels would I think would still give them the edge.[/quote']If the Yankees get Ubaldo and a bullpen piece, they will be very hard to beat.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If the Yankees get Ubaldo and a bullpen piece' date=' they will be very hard to beat.[/quote']

 

True, but I'd line up Beckett - Lester - Buchholz - Bedard against Sabathia - Jimenez - Burnett - Colon all day.

[yankees228]

If the Yankees get Ubaldo and a bullpen piece' date=' they will be very hard to beat.[/quote']

 

I definitely agree about Ubaldo. Without him their definitely behind the Red Sox. As for the bullpen, if Soriano comes back strong I'm not sure that's necessary ... but they won't know what kind of shape he's in until after the deadline.

[redsoxbeatz]

Buch isn't going to get checked till Monday!? Geeze. Fly him out to LA now, jesus.

 

 

True' date=' but I'd line up Beckett - Lester - Buchholz - Bedard against Sabathia - Jimenez - Burnett - Colon all day.[/quote']

 

Except you can't really put Buchholz in that lineup. His return is way up in the air right now. Sub-out Buchholz for who? Wake? Weiland?

[AtWork]

People here essentially laughing at the Yankees chances is funny. They're not as good as the Red Sox' date=' but a 61-41 record with a +131 run differential are pretty good signs that the team is a legitimate contender.[/quote']

 

I can't speak for other posters, but I certainly wasn't laughing at the Yankees chances. They may be the second best team in baseball. I was simply laughing at the idea that an impact starter is magically going to emerge from their rotation when in reality members of their rotation are more likely to regress. I'm looking at you Colon and Garcia.