Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[example1]

Mark Teixeira says hello.

 

Don't put too much faith in your scouting and analysis. What trade have you really made that has put your team over the top the last few years?

 

I was writing almost exclusively about scouting and the analysis required to figure out which individual players to prioritize through INTL FA or the draft, and which positions/assets/tools/skills to seek when those opportunities present themselves.

 

Yankees win on the FA front every time.

 

As for scouting, hard to argue with a group that got Youk, Pedey, Paps, and Lester. However, as a Yankee fan, don't be surprised if you hit a dry spell. The Yankees had the homegrown core of the last two decades, and then hit a dry spell. There were many of us who thought we'd keep churning out farm system stars.

 

We will see. I'm still pretty confident about this team moving forward. I imagine there will be at least a few MLB regulars out of the group of Westmoreland, Renfroe, Anderson, Rizzo, Gibson, Reddick, Fuentes, Kalish, Lin, Exposito, Iglesias, Bowden, Kelly, Tazawa, Pimentel, Wilson, Younginer. That's 17 names who all project to be at least MLB contributors, many who project to be a lot better than that.

 

The Yankees money is finally going in the right places. The Yankees may be able to shave 30-40 million off their payroll in the next few years and continue to outperform other teams at a very high level. If this money is ever put back into scouting and development and is effective, forget it. You may see a repeat of the 1950s.

 

I will be curious to see what the Yankees do when Jeter can't play SS and Rivera can't pitch anymore. They will still have Teix and A-Rod, but the loss of Jeter and Mariano will be about more than solely their production.

[BSN07]

Just a random thought. The more I look at the FA market the more I think I'd rather pass the Sox pass on it this season season.

 

Holliday is the only player I'd be interested in giving multiple years. Bay if he would take 3 and maybe an option(very doubtful), I see soemone like SF or St. Louis maybe getting desperate and giving him 5 years. And that's too much IMO.

 

I know way should they give lackey anything close to 5 years. IMO I don't see him aging well. And that could end up being an albatross contract. I think he is much better suited for the senior circuit.

 

There are a few 1 year options that could work in LF. I don't think he should be handed the job, but would like to see what Hermida offers on a constant basis. An obvious back up plan would have to be need though, Dye might not be too bad.

 

SS I think they can fill with out having to hand out a multi year deal.

 

Maybe it would be better to go short term deals and get everything off the books for next off season when there are some true game changers available. Just a thought.

[ORS]

Mark Teixeira says hello.

 

Don't put too much faith in your scouting and analysis. What trade have you really made that has put your team over the top the last few years?

Beckett and Lowell? One was the clear post-season MVP (Beckett), the other the actual WS MVP. You really suck at asking for examples because it invariably seems there's an obvious one you were incapable of recalling.

 

As for scouting, hard to argue with a group that got Youk, Pedey, Paps, and Lester. However, as a Yankee fan, don't be surprised if you hit a dry spell. The Yankees had the homegrown core of the last two decades, and then hit a dry spell. There were many of us who thought we'd keep churning out farm system stars.

Once the core showed up and the dynasty started, there was a paradigm shift to keep the train rolling. The lack of success by the Yankees in developing their own talent for about a decade is more about how they went about it than it is about how the tap runs dry. If you were one of the people who thought your team would keep churning out talent, then you weren't paying attention to what was going on. The importance of the draft disappeared, prospects were traded as soon as they showed value for flash in the pan "established" talent, etc. When I see signs of similar devaluation of the player development machine from the Sox, then my expectations will change.

 

The Yankees money is finally going in the right places. The Yankees may be able to shave 30-40 million off their payroll in the next few years and continue to outperform other teams at a very high level. If this money is ever put back into scouting and development and is effective, forget it. You may see a repeat of the 1950s.

Given their advantages, it should have already been the 1950's all over again. Only the hubris of the owner, the inefficiency of having two factions vie for control of the team, and the ineptitude of the GM have prevented them from turning the league into a complete joke.

[Gom]

Beckett and Lowell? One was the clear post-season MVP (Beckett)' date=' the other the actual WS MVP. You really suck at asking for examples because it invariably seems there's an obvious one you were incapable of recalling.[/quote']

You gave up Hanley, who has been one of the top 5 players in baseball the last five years. It's not that the trade didn't help you, but he might have helped you to even more Championships than Beckett did. You didn't blow anyone away with any deals. Trading is not a strong point of your regime.

Once the core showed up and the dynasty started, there was a paradigm shift to keep the train rolling. The lack of success by the Yankees in developing their own talent for about a decade is more about how they went about it than it is about how the tap runs dry. If you were one of the people who thought your team would keep churning out talent, then you weren't paying attention to what was going on. The importance of the draft disappeared, prospects were traded as soon as they showed value for flash in the pan "established" talent, etc. When I see signs of similar devaluation of the player development machine from the Sox, then my expectations will change.

Valid points. I honestly don't pay attention to the minor leagues. However, I see other teams catching up to the Red Sox and their player evaluation, so just for that alone, I think teams will close the gap. However, valid points.

 

Given their advantages' date=' it should have already been the 1950's all over again. Only the hubris of the owner, the inefficiency of having two factions vie for control of the team, and the ineptitude of the GM have prevented them from turning the league into a complete joke.[/quote']

Agreed 100%. One of the reasons I never liked Cashman.

[yankees228]

The ineffectiveness of the Yankees front office, coupled with the crapshoot nature of the postseason, is the reason the Yankees haven't won championships since 2000.

[Rdsxmbnt]

The ineffectiveness of the Yankees front office' date=' coupled with the crapshoot nature of the postseason, is the reason the Yankees haven't won championships since 2000.[/quote']

 

agreed

[yankees228]

Also, the 1950s are never going to come back for the Yankees. In that decade they won six championships and eight AL pennants. With two rounds to play before reaching the World Series, you will likely never see a decade like that again, and for someone to say that it should happen is laughable at best.

[Gom]

Why not? Didn't they win four out of five at one point last decade?

 

I'm not saying it's likely..but if the Yankees start drafting as well as they should, and signing right players, why not?

 

The Yankees were a Sandy Alomar homer and a Luis Gonzalez blooper away from winning six in a row.

[yankees228]

Why not? Didn't they win four out of five at one point last decade?

 

I'm not saying it's likely..but if the Yankees start drafting as well as they should, and signing right players, why not?

 

The Yankees were a Sandy Alomar homer and a Luis Gonzalez blooper away from winning six in a row.

 

I think what the Yankees did from 1996-2001 is more of the exception than the rule.

 

It's just so tough, no matter how good a team you are, to win the World Series in the post wild card era. The Yankees had some excellent teams this decade, and the majority of those weren't even able to reach the World Series. Even winning this championship, as good as the Yankees were, took some degree of luck.

 

For instance, you'll probably never see anything like the Yankees' run to the championship in 1996. The amount of luck and breaks they received is absolutely ridiculous. That was, far and away, the luckiest championship I've ever witnessed.

 

As incredible and improbable as the Yankees run during that time period was, they still only won four championships. They did so much right, and they were so good, yet four isn't even close to six. For me, 1996-2000 represents the most impressive team accomplishment in the history of this game. You cannot reasonably expect that success to not only be recreated, but to increase.

 

I have no problem continuing this conversation, and I think it's a good one, but for the sake of not hijacking the thread, would you mind responding in the Yankees' offseason thread?

[Gom]

That's fine. I don't think it's likely, just possible. No worries.

[jacksonianmarch]

The ineffectiveness of the Yankees front office' date=' coupled with the crapshoot nature of the postseason, is the reason the Yankees haven't won championships since 2000.[/quote']

 

Our FO took a break in scouting, drafting and signing from 2000-2004. When you take 5 yrs off from finding the best amateur talent, you just cannot continue to think that you will win the WS every time out

[Gom]

Our FO took a break in scouting' date=' drafting and signing from 2000-2004. When you take 5 yrs off from finding the best amateur talent, you just cannot continue to think that you will win the WS every time out[/quote']

 

To top it off, the same FO signed the wrong players.

[CoachC.]

Gammons:

 

There seem to be several ways the Sox could go at shortstop, although it is clear they want Jed Lowrie to play at Pawtucket, to make up for what amounts to a lost season and prove that his wrist will hold up.

 

In the meantime, they could sign Alex Gonzalez at a discount, perhaps add Omar Vizquel as depth, or look at some of the other alternatives. They love Marco Scutaro, but he is a Type-A free agent and unless they get a couple of No. 1 picks from Bay and Billy Wagner signing with other teams, they will be reluctant to part with the draft choice.

[Gom]

Foolish. Scutaro would solve your SS problems for 3 years. That's not worth a pick or two?

[Dipre]

Foolish. Scutaro would solve your SS problems for 3 years. That's not worth a pick or two?

 

Scutaro had a good year last year. Please check his career stats and tell me what the chances are of Scutaro repeating his career year?

[Gom]

Scutaro had a good year last year. Please check his career stats and tell me what the chances are of Scutaro repeating his career year?

 

True. Maybe he's not worth it. He just seems to hit .900 against us.

[example1]

Foolish. Scutaro would solve your SS problems for 3 years. That's not worth a pick or two?

 

True. Maybe he's not worth it. He just seems to hit .900 against us.

 

So who is foolish then, Gom? You. That's right.

 

I don't think Scutaro and his high price would be worth the pick or two compared to 6 MLB years of a first round pick.

[Gom]

I didn't look at Scutaro's career. Big deal. I don't really follow shortstops. We've been solid there for 15 years or so, if I'm not mistaken.

[example1]

I didn't look at Scutaro's career. Big deal. I don't really follow shortstops. We've been solid there for 15 years or so' date=' if I'm not mistaken.[/quote']

 

I will keep that in mind when you start talking s*** at some point in the future...

 

That should probably also apply for C, 3B and now 1B moving forward. Good to know that the part of your brain that knows how to look at how good players are gets shut off if the Yankees are set in that position.

[example1]

Frodo speculates about the Tigers moving Cabrera (poorly, IMO):

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10374040/Trading-Cabrera-makes-financial-sense-for-Tigers

 

I've even got a possible trade in mind — Cabrera for Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon, third baseman Mike Lowell and a prospect, either first baseman Lars Anderson or right-hander Stolmy Pimentel.

 

Jesus, if the Sox could trade Papelbon and Lowell and only Stolmy or Lars for Cabrera they would do it in a heartbeat, right? I don't see Detroit being very excited about that at all, other than the cost savings.

[Dojji]

Lowell and Paps? Really?

 

I mean, Paps I can see, since Detroit's closer situation has been a nightmare, but Lowell?

[Dipre]

Frodo speculates about the Tigers moving Cabrera (poorly, IMO):

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10374040/Trading-Cabrera-makes-financial-sense-for-Tigers

 

 

 

Jesus, if the Sox could trade Papelbon and Lowell and only Stolmy or Lars for Cabrera they would do it in a heartbeat, right? I don't see Detroit being very excited about that at all, other than the cost savings.

 

I ask again:

 

Name one sportswriter as dumb or dumber than Rosenthal.

[jacksonianmarch]

Scutaro had a good year last year. Please check his career stats and tell me what the chances are of Scutaro repeating his career year?

 

I agree. I hate Scutaro as a long term option. He sucked up until this past yr and he's gonna be looking for 3 yrs 18 mil or so. He reminds me of Lugo. Meh career until right before free agency.

[Gom]

I will keep that in mind when you start talking s*** at some point in the future...

 

That should probably also apply for C, 3B and now 1B moving forward. Good to know that the part of your brain that knows how to look at how good players are gets shut off if the Yankees are set in that position.

 

Why not? I haven't heard anyone here talking about replacing Pedroia or Youkilis.

[Dojji]

Why not? I haven't heard anyone here talking about replacing Pedroia or Youkilis.

 

Two threads at least on the main page about moving Youkilis to third base in order to make room for another power hitter.

[jacksonianmarch]

Is that a problem? I think moving Youkilis to 3b improves his value and opens a hole at a more easily replaceable position that typically has better offensive potential. Having a 3b who can OPS over .900 and play good D is better than a 1b who plays very good D and can OPS over .900.

[BSN07]

Frodo speculates about the Tigers moving Cabrera (poorly, IMO):

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10374040/Trading-Cabrera-makes-financial-sense-for-Tigers

 

 

 

Jesus, if the Sox could trade Papelbon and Lowell and only Stolmy or Lars for Cabrera they would do it in a heartbeat, right? I don't see Detroit being very excited about that at all, other than the cost savings.

 

Lowell makes no sense unless Boston is paying his salary or a good portion of it IMO.

 

Papelbon may solve Detroits CL problem for next season, but I doubt they give him top dollar. I guess they could spin Papelbon at the TDL. MDC or Bard makes more sense.

 

There going to want one of Anderson/Rizzo for sure. They might be able to get Kelley but not much else after him. Boston is not going to want to part with him easily. They might be better of going after a Bowden+Reddick instead.

 

Or maybe they do like I suggested and take on Magglio's contract to possibly save on prospects. If that's the case a MDC+Anderson+Pimtel(Bowden) deal could look tempting

[Dipre]

Lowell makes no sense unless Boston is paying his salary or a good portion of it IMO.

 

Papelbon may solve Detroits CL problem fro next season, but I doubt they give him top dollar. I guess they could spin Papelbon at the TDL. MDC or Bard makes more sense.

 

There going to want one of Anderson/Rizzo for sure. They might be able to get Kelley but not much else after him. Boston is not going to want to part with him easily. They might be better of going after a Bowden+Reddick instead.

 

Or maybe they do like I suggested and take on Magglio's contract to possibly save on prospects. If that's the case a MDC+Anderson+Pimtel(Bowden) deal could look tempting

 

Offer that makes sense instead of Frodo's failthought:

 

Bard: Cost-controlled and under control for a number of years. Paplbon makes no sense.

 

Anderson: A 1B prospect.

 

Michael Bowden: SP prospect. The Tigers need it.

 

Josh Reddick: OF prospect, they'll lose Ordonez and probably trade Granderson, Reddick is good for a re-builder.

 

This is just a proposal that Dombrowski will not hang up the phone on immediately after hearing it. Another prospect will probably have to be involved. A mid-level prospect.

[Gom]

Two threads at least on the main page about moving Youkilis to third base in order to make room for another power hitter.

 

You're not replacing him, you're moving him. If Youkilis was just a 1B, there would be ZERO talk of Gonzalez.

 

HUGE f***ING DIFFERENCE HERE.

[BoSox21]

I'd say Lowell has more value this off-season than he did last off-season and it was widely speculated that the Sox had found a landing spot for Lowell provided they had signed Teixeira