Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dojji]

I actually think it is solid enough to do both. He's not an elite bat, but he's a very solid one.

 

Only .257/.344/.826, but averaging about 30 HR/year and 90 RBI on the dot. In a lineup that gets on base better, like Boston, that number of RBI will go up.

 

The OPS is slightly better than Lowell, the counting stats are much better.

[jacksonianmarch]

And Uggla/Youkilis combo would provide better D than a Youk/Lowell one. Also, Uggla has put up 27HRs or more in all 4 of his seasons, playing in a ballpark that is less forgiving to righties than Fenway. He has also seen his walk totals rise every yr in the league to a total of 92 last yr. And, he's 6yrs younger and healthy. So Dipre, while the OPS difference is negligible from just a stats standpoint, a move to Boston for Uggla would absolutely move Lowell out of his position, assuming the only position he could play was 1b or 3b in Boston

[Dojji]

Uggla by no means has the arm for 3B. If he's an infielder in Boston he's a first basemen

[Dipre]

Uggla by no means has the arm for 3B. If he's an infielder in Boston he's a first basemen

 

This is my problem. I don't think Uggla's numbers justify moving Youk to third specially if there's an open spot in LF. Because, by all means, we're operating under the assumption that our current LFer is Jeremy Hermida..

[jacksonianmarch]

Then so be it. Uggla at 1b and Youkilis at 3b. Hence why I said a Youk/Uggla combo. I didnt specify which position they would be in

[Dipre]

Then so be it. Uggla at 1b and Youkilis at 3b. Hence why I said a Youk/Uggla combo. I didnt specify which position they would be in

 

And Hermida plays LF?

 

Hilarious.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is my problem. I don't think Uggla's numbers justify moving Youk to third specially if there's an open spot in LF. Because' date=' by all means, we're operating under the assumption that our current LFer is Jeremy Hermida..[/quote']

 

I am pretty sure that if the sox strike out on Bay and Holliday but get Uggla that Uggla would be the sox LFer for 2010. Trust me on this one. If the sox make a deal for someone like Uggla but dont fill LF adequately, they wont be sitting Lowell, Youk or Uggla while putting a reclamation project in LF

[Dipre]

I am pretty sure that if the sox strike out on Bay and Holliday but get Uggla that Uggla would be the sox LFer for 2010. Trust me on this one. If the sox make a deal for someone like Uggla but dont fill LF adequately' date=' they wont be sitting Lowell, Youk or Uggla while putting a reclamation project in LF[/quote']

 

Then, under this assumption, seeing as how the Sox currently have no LFer, how do you justify sending Lowell to the bench basically in favor of Jeremy Hermida?

[Dojji]

This is my problem. I don't think Uggla's numbers justify moving Youk to third specially if there's an open spot in LF. Because' date=' by all means, we're operating under the assumption that our current LFer is Jeremy Hermida..[/quote']

 

In order to justify moving Youk to third, you don't have to be better than Youk. You have to be better of the weakest of the two players that would be moving -- Lowell. Uggla has that.

 

Getting Uggla has no bearing on Holliday or Bay.

[BSN07]

If it's for first base' date=' Dan Uggla is one of the more intriguing possibilities. JMHO.[/quote']

 

Uggla at 3B seems like a more viable option.

 

edit: Sorry meant 1B, LF might not be bad either.

[Dojji]

He doesn't have the arm for third and we have a better option there.

 

Youkilis at third, Uggla at first, sign Holliday or Bay for left, and we're loaded for bear.

[Dipre]

In order to justify moving Youk to third, you don't have to be better than Youk. You have to be better of the weakest of the two players that would be moving -- Lowell. Uggla has that.

 

Getting Uggla has no bearing on Holliday or Bay.

 

Which one is on the current roster, Holliday or Bay?

 

None.

 

So, at this juncture, Jeremy Hermida is our starting LF, and Lowell would ride the bench because you'd just love to play Uggla at 1b.

 

Fantastic.

[Dojji]

Sure, but Uggla isn't on the roster either, so how is that the standard for discussion?

 

Getting Uggla doesn't impact our ability to go after either Holliday or Bay, so you objection that Hermida is our starting LF doesn't matter -- he is right now anyway, doesn't stop us from improving the roster anyway we can..

[BSN07]

I'm sure Theo is checking in on Uggla if only because it might cost the least to acquire him. Florida practically gave Hermida away. One decent prospect might be enough to get Uggla. That will leaves some bullets left in the gun to fire at some other possible trades.

[Dipre]

Sure, but Uggla isn't on the roster either, so how is that the standard for discussion?

 

Getting Uggla doesn't impact our ability to go after either Holliday or Bay, so you objection that Hermida is our starting LF doesn't matter -- he is right now anyway, doesn't stop us from improving the roster anyway we can..

 

Doiji.

 

Do you honestly think we go after Uggla if we sign either Holliday or Bay?

 

Honest question.

[jacksonianmarch]

Then' date=' under this assumption, seeing as how the Sox currently have no LFer, how do you justify sending Lowell to the bench basically in favor of Jeremy Hermida?[/quote']

Uggla would absolutely move Lowell out of his position, assuming the only position he could play was 1b or 3b in Boston

 

These are my words. Assuming the sox fill LF, cause Uggla can theoretically play LF.

[Dojji]

Doiji.

 

Do you honestly think we go after Uggla if we sign either Holliday or Bay?

 

Honest question.

 

Yes. Lowell's in the last year of his deal and shouldn't be counted on to play full time and we need an option going forward. Uggla is one of the guys who could be that option, especially if Cabrera and Gonzalez are not for sale.

 

you get a couple years out of Uggla until his arbitration years are done, and then if I have his service time correct it will be in the same offseason that Adrian Gonzalez is a FA, so that problem takes care of itself. Or just DH him.

[Dipre]

The problem is, logic would dictate that the Sox would not have a need for Uggla if they filled their LF vacancy.

[jacksonianmarch]

There wouldnt be a need for one season, but should they happen upon a favorable deal for him, he would be an upgrade over the current Lowell/Youk combo

[Dojji]

The problem is' date=' [b']logic[/b] would dictate that the Sox would not have a need for Uggla if they filled their LF vacancy.

 

Of course not. We don't have a need for Adrian Gonzalez either. It's all about the costs versus rewards of finding upgrades for the roster.

 

Logic only dictates this if you're just concerned about 2010. From the perspective of the years past 2010 Uggla makes some sense. Two key players occupying positions that "block" Uggla move on at the end of this year.

[Dipre]

Yes. Lowell's in the last year of his deal and shouldn't be counted on to play full time and we need an option going forward. Uggla is one of the guys who could be that option, especially if Cabrera and Gonzalez are not for sale.

 

you get a couple years out of Uggla then once his arbitration years are done, and then if I have his service time correct it will be in the same offseason that Adrian Gonzalez is a FA, so that problem takes care of itself.

 

So you would rather they hamstring the payroll this year by adding Uggla to play 1st, sign Bay or Holliday while absorbing Lowell's contract to be on the bench or dumping him on another team.

 

I'm sorry, but i just don't see the offensive upgrade as enough to commit this type of financial butcher job.

[Dipre]

Only if you're just concerned about 2009. From the perspective of the years past 2009 Uggla makes some sense.

 

Uggla is a 30-HR, 100+ RBI bat who i would assume would perform even better in a stadium that benefits him more and with a better lineup.

 

However, Uggla is not cheap, and as noted above, it'd be a butcher job to absorb his and Lowell's contract for an upgrade that wouldn't be as significant as say, Adrian Gonzales or Prince Fielder.

 

Also, Dan Ugglas hasn't played 1B consistently before, a much less tolerable position for defensive shortcomings than LF. Specially in Fenway.

[Dojji]

So you would rather they hamstring the payroll this year by adding Uggla to play 1st, sign Bay or Holliday while absorbing Lowell's contract to be on the bench or dumping him on another team.

 

I'm sorry, but i just don't see the offensive upgrade as enough to commit this type of financial butcher job.

 

Uggla made $5M last year. He'll get a raise, arbitration being what it is, but that's hardly the kind of money that "hamstrings" a budget like ours, especially on a single-season basis.

 

Can you at least just admit that the big reason you don't want Uggla at 1B has nnothing to do with Uggla, but has to do with you holding out hope for an Adrian Gonzalez trade?

 

EDIT: Ahh, I see you did as I was writing this.

[Dipre]

Uggla made $5M last year. He'll get a raise, arbitration being what it is, but that's hardly the kind of money that "hamstrings" a budget like ours, especially on a single-season basis.

 

Can you at least just admit that the big reason you don't want Uggla at 1B has nnothing to do with Uggla, but has to do with you holding out hope for an Adrian Gonzalez trade?

 

Nope.

 

I just don't think Uggla is a significant enough upgrade to bench Lowell. Specially if he hasn't played 1B consistently before.

 

Can you at least admit that the fact is that Uggla is not enough of an upgrade to justify dumping Lowell?

 

It's hilarious. You were against signing Mark f***ing Teixeira so as to not dump lowell and now you're giving me this "It's 'cause you want A-Gon" lip.

[Dojji]

Uggla is a 30-HR, 100+ RBI bat who i would assume would perform even better in a stadium that benefits him more and with a better lineup.

 

However, Uggla is not cheap, and as noted above, it'd be a butcher job to absorb his and Lowell's contract for an upgrade that wouldn't be as significant as say, Adrian Gonzales or Prince Fielder.

 

Uggla is still at the tail end of his cost-controlled seasons. He's a lot cheaper right now than the same player would be as a FA, and he's a bit cheaper than Adrian Gonzalez. You're overplaying the expense angle just a bit.

 

Also, Dan Ugglas hasn't played 1B consistently before, a much less tolerable position for defensive shortcomings than LF. Specially in Fenway.

 

Did you just say that 1B wasn't a tolerable position for defensive shortcomings?

[Dipre]

Uggla is still at the tail end of his cost-controlled seasons. He's a lot cheaper right now than the same player would be as a FA' date=' and he's a bit cheaper than Adrian Gonzalez. You're overplaying the expense angle just a bit.[/quote']

 

Arbitration + 30 HR season =/= cheap.

 

Did you just say that 1B wasn't a tolerable position for defensive shortcomings?

 

Ask Adam Dunn.

[Dojji]

Nope.

 

I just don't think Uggla is a significant enough upgrade to bench Lowell. Specially if he hasn't played 1B consistently before.

 

Can you at least admit that the fact is that Uggla is not enough of an upgrade to justify dumping Lowell?

 

It's hilarious. You were against signing Mark f***ing Teixeira so as to not dump lowell and now you're giving me this "It's 'cause you want A-Gon" lip.

 

I was about to bring this up on the opposite basis. Are you seriously arguing diminishing returns in the short term when a solid offensive upgrade much cheaper than Teixeira's on the line?

[Dojji]

Arbitration + 30 HR season =/= cheap.

 

Certainly cheaper than the same 30 HR bat on the free agent market. since Uggla would be getting a starter's at bats I don't see the problem. And if it really is that big a deal, find a new home for Lowell. There's enough teams out there who could do with a rental at third that it should be possible to find a home for him. Anaheim and Seattle both spring to mind as places you could eat some dollars and dump him to for a modest return.

 

 

 

Ask Adam Dunn.

 

I think I'd prefer to ask Carlos Delgado and Ryan Howard.

[Dipre]

I was about to bring this up on the opposite basis. Are you seriously arguing diminishing returns in the short term when a solid offensive upgrade much cheaper than Teixeira's on the line?

 

Yes i will, specially if you're going to have to eat Lowell's contract.

 

Also, you're flat out lying when you say Gonzales is more expensive than Uggla. He'll make 4.75 Mill in '10, and 5.5 Mill (just a tad above Uggla's last year number) on '11.

[Dojji]

Yes i will, specially if you're going to have to eat Lowell's contract.

 

Also, you're flat out lying when you say Gonzales is more expensive than Uggla. He'll make 4.75 Mill in '10, and 5.5 Mill (just a tad above Uggla's last year number) on '11.

 

*checks*

 

You're right. Dang it's going to be hard to trade enough talent to convince Hoyer to part with a power bat that good and that cheap. Even a basement dweller like SD needs a draw or two.