Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[BSN07]

I'd say Lowell has more value this off-season than he did last off-season and it was widely speculated that the Sox had found a landing spot for Lowell provided they had signed Teixeira

 

I agree I think he could be moved with out too much trouble. There are a few teams looking for a 3B. Not sure about his value. There going to be some health concerns. But with a full off season I expect he will be back to normal albeit he might only play 130 games. I believe he will need his days off.

[jacksonianmarch]

I disagree. I think Lowell's worth has made a lateral move. He proved that offensively, he isnt phased by the hip. But defensively, he is a statue. He's proven that he can be a DH

[BoSox21]

I disagree. I think Lowell's worth has made a lateral move. He proved that offensively' date=' he isnt phased by the hip. But defensively, he is a statue. He's proven that he can be a DH[/quote']

 

Shocking.

[Dipre]

Shocking.

 

This time he's right though. From what we saw last year, he's a DH playing third.

[Spudboy]

I found this in Cafardo's article in the Globe Today.

 

8. Mike Lowell, 3B, Red Sox - There could be a late-developing market for Lowell if teams are convinced that his hip will improve enough to help his range. Lowell believes that will happen, based on conversations with doctors who told him he could concentrate on strengthening the labrum rather than just rehabbing it, as he did last offseason. The Sox would entertain dealing him only if they land Gonzalez and move Kevin Youkilis to third. At least three teams - the Phillies, Cardinals, and Giants - need a third baseman. Sabean helped sign Lowell for the Yankees years ago; the Phillies tried to sign him in free agency. The final $13 million on his contract could be an issue for the Cardinals.

[Spudboy]

Not to stir the pot here, but....more from the same article:

 

4. Holliday, LF, free agent - One of the most interesting things Boras said at the GM meetings was that he felt Holliday’s early-season difficulties with the A’s were due in large part to altering his swing in the offseason. His offseason hitting coach was Mark McGwire, who has been hired by the Cardinals. Some had thought that might be incentive for Holliday to stay in St. Louis, but maybe not after Boras’s comment. Those who watched Holliday in St. Louis were amazed by his strength and the fact that he could consistently hit balls into the upper deck in left field at Busch Stadium, which is something Albert Pujols did far less. Asked how many homers Holliday would hit at Fenway, a Cardinal official said, “Forty, easy.’’ An AL talent evaluator said Holliday was most vulnerable against a high, tight fastball at 94 miles per hour and faster. Who isn’t?

 

 

This would be consistent with what Dipre had said many, many pages of s*** ago on another thread

[BoSox21]

This time he's right though. From what we saw last year' date=' he's a DH playing third.[/quote']

 

right, but it was far from a surprise that his defense dropped off dramatically from the injury but he did prove that he can still swing a bat and stay on the field for almost 120 games

[Dipre]

right' date=' but it was far from a surprise that his defense dropped off dramatically from the injury but he did prove that he can still swing a bat and stay on the field for almost 120 games[/quote']

 

Fair enough.

[BoSox21]

Fair enough.

 

just my opinion, plus the fact that he has just one-year remaining on his deal as opposed to a two-year commitment

[ORS]

You gave up Hanley' date=' who has been one of the top 5 players in baseball the last five years. It's not that the trade didn't help you, but he might have helped you to even more Championships than Beckett did. You didn't blow anyone away with any deals. Trading is not a strong point of your regime.[/quote']

Well, yeah, if you are going to change what you said after the fact, it's easy to have it make sense. Problem is, you didn't phrase it as a trade that they "came out on top" of, but rather, one that put them "over the top" ie, they won it all. The Beckett/Lowell trade did exactly that. How's about you say what you really mean next time?

[Lester82]

What trade have you really made that has put your team over the top the last few years?

 

UM, Josh Beckett? World Series in 2007?

 

Gom?

[Lester82]

Foolish. Scutaro would solve your SS problems for 3 years. That's not worth a pick or two?

 

Wow.

 

Un-believable. Wow.

[Lester82]

LOL... he "would solve your problems" for "the next three years"

 

hehehehehehehe.

[jacksonianmarch]

What trade have you really made that has put your team over the top the last few years?

 

UM, Josh Beckett? World Series in 2007?

 

Gom?

 

His argument was that Hanley could have brought you more championships if you kept him. I dont agree with that sentiment, but that is his sentiment

[Dipre]

His argument was that Hanley could have brought you more championships if you kept him. I dont agree with that sentiment' date=' but that is his sentiment[/quote']

 

Without Beckett, we don't win the WS in '07, and we probably don't make the playoffs this year.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Foolish. Scutaro would solve your SS problems for 3 years. That's not worth a pick or two?

Wait, what the f***?

[Lester82]

Shhh.... It's better to have a shortstop than to have a top of the rotation starter.

 

hahaha

[jacksonianmarch]

Without Beckett' date=' we don't win the WS in '07, and we probably don't make the playoffs this year.[/quote']

 

I am just translating Gom language here. I agree with you Dipre.

[BoSox21]

I don't see how a convincing argument can be made that if we kept Hanley, we would've won at least 50% of the WS played since the trade happened.

[Dojji]

The only way to make that argument is to say that Anibal Sanchez (remember him?) replicates all or most of Beckett's performance over the last 3-4 years. Since he's spent most of that time hurt or ineffective, hard to make the case.

[BoSox21]

Far too many hypotheticals involved in the argument vs. real facts.

[jacksonianmarch]

I would guess that the assumption would be that the sox would have gone out and gotten a true #1 starter in that time without giving up Hanley. That being said, I disagree with Gom's assumption.

 

Also, it is kinda painful to think about that farm system prior to the Beckett deal.

 

Lester, Buchholz, Sanchez, Bowden as starters. Papelbon, Delcarmen in the bullpen. Youkilis, Pedroia, Hanley in the IF, Ellsbury and Murphy in the OF. That was a pretty strong farm. Recent trades and callups have drained that resource for now.

[Dipre]

I would guess that the assumption would be that the sox would have gone out and gotten a true #1 starter in that time without giving up Hanley. That being said, I disagree with Gom's assumption.

 

Also, it is kinda painful to think about that farm system prior to the Beckett deal.

 

Lester, Buchholz, Sanchez, Bowden as starters. Papelbon, Delcarmen in the bullpen. Youkilis, Pedroia, Hanley in the IF, Ellsbury and Murphy in the OF. That was a pretty strong farm. Recent trades and callups have drained that resource for now.

 

*sigh*

 

The fact that the farm probably won't churn out a couple quality players next year doesn't mean the farm has been "drained".

 

This is what "make your bed, then lie in it" means.

[jacksonianmarch]

You dont read well as usual. Having players 1-2 yrs off does the 2010 Red Sox no good. That resource is dry as of right now. It isnt as self-replenishing as it had been. By 2011, it will be better, by 2012 and 2013, it should be a pretty solid resource again

[Dipre]

You dont read well as usual. Having players 1-2 yrs off does the 2010 Red Sox no good. That resource is dry as of right now. It isnt as self-replenishing as it had been. By 2011' date=' it will be better, by 2012 and 2013, it should be a pretty solid resource again[/quote']

 

Not that i don't read well.

 

Yes to you being a doomsday device.

 

The purpose of the player development system is two-fold.

 

1) Produce players for the ML team.

 

2) Help the team acquire outside talent via trade.

 

There are some players that could still help the Sox as soon as next year, and many players who are coveted by other teams who could be used in a major trade right now.

 

So if the system can do number one and number two, how is the resource dry?

 

You know, you border on the ridicule man, will you never get tired of the act?

[Lester82]

OFF-TOPIC:

 

Who's excited for the 2012 All-Star game in Kansas City!

 

I totally see why Bud Selig and baseball picked Kansas City over Fenway... more yawn from baseball...

[CoachC.]

Frodo speculates about the Tigers moving Cabrera (poorly, IMO):

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10374040/Trading-Cabrera-makes-financial-sense-for-Tigers

 

 

 

Jesus, if the Sox could trade Papelbon and Lowell and only Stolmy or Lars for Cabrera they would do it in a heartbeat, right? I don't see Detroit being very excited about that at all, other than the cost savings.

 

 

For Detroit to consider that the sox would need to add some prospects and the caliber of them would depend on Bostons willingness to take back a bad contract that Detroit has on there books, and theres plenty of them to choose from

[Lester82]

i hope the Red Sox are actually going to make moves this offseason, other than the ever-exciting raising of ticket prices.

[The_Destroyah]

any new thoughts or news concerning talks with SD about Adrian Gonzalez?

[Dojji]

I'd be surprised if we made a big trade. I think the objective this year is to make the postseason and hope for the best. We'll be in a much better position to go "over the top" next year.

 

I think Holliday or Bay, and maybe in the best case also Roy Halladay or another top arm with a few years of projectability.