Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[The_Destroyah]

well the jerk store called and they're running out of YOU

 

genius. pure genius.

:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

[TheKilo]

Really? It was genius?

[The_Destroyah]

Really? It was genius?

 

sorry, that would be the lack of a sarcasm indicator that has you confused there because it was most definitely a sarcastic comment.

[Keeper]

Nice Seinfeld reference.

[BSN07]

I came across an article and discussion that I hadn't seen brought up here yet(this is a trade scenario post, so read on at your own risk).

 

I'll see if I can find it, but I read an article that was talking about how KC should capitalize on Grienke's value and go look to trade him after his CY Young victory.

 

I think there is an argument for both sides of the discussion. It would be a tough PR hit for KC, but it's not like KC is relevant anyways. There were multiple packages and offers, some where legit that I think KC would have to consider.

 

One I thought was interesting(because it involved the Sox), was sending Grienke to a semi larger laid back market like Seattle, then Seattle sends Felix to Boston, and Boston ships an assortment of prospects to KC.

 

I know we bring up a lot of pipe dreams here, but this one seems to make some sense from all sides( except if your a KC fan).

 

KC gets pieces to help fill out their roster. Seattle recieves an Ace SP that is signed to a reasonable deal(at least less then what Felix will cost soon), and Boston get's their stud Ace.

 

 

 

Any thoughts?

[The_Destroyah]

I came across an article and discussion that I hadn't seen brought up here yet(this is a trade scenario post, so read on at your own risk).

 

I'll see if I can find it, but I read an article that was talking about how KC should capitalize on Grienke's value and go look to trade him after his CY Young victory.

 

I think there is an argument for both sides of the discussion. It would be a tough PR hit for KC, but it's not like KC is relevant anyways. There were multiple packages and offers, some where legit that I think KC would have to consider.

 

One I thought was interesting(because it involved the Sox), was sending Grienke to a semi larger laid back market like Seattle, then Seattle sends Felix to Boston, and Boston ships an assortment of prospects to KC.

 

I know we bring up a lot of pipe dreams here, but this one seems to make some sense from all sides( except if your a KC fan).

 

KC gets pieces to help fill out their roster. Seattle recieves an Ace SP that is signed to a reasonable deal(at least less then what Felix will cost soon), and Boston get's their stud Ace.

 

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

why would seattle agree to this? Greinke may have been lights out but he still has some ? (I'd still take him in a heartbeat) and seattle doesnt gain much with this trade which is probably what makes this a pipe dream. so why take a young Ace with great stuff to trade for a young ace with great stuff and some mental problems?

[Dipre]

why would seattle agree to this? Greinke may have been lights out but he still has some ? (I'd still take him in a heartbeat) and seattle doesnt gain much with this trade which is probably what makes this a pipe dream. so why take a young Ace with great stuff to trade for a young ace with great stuff and some mental problems?

 

Seattle gains nothing from that trade scenario.

[BSN07]

Seattle gains nothing from that trade scenario.

 

Actually you could argue they gain 3 years of the current Cy Younf award winner, over 2 years of the guy who finished in 2nd place

 

All the Felix talk starts with the premises Seattle won't be able to afford him.

 

So they move the final two years of Felix, for 3 years of Grienke, at which they might be able to re-sign him, or could move him for probably a similar or = package they could have gotten for Felix. Bringing in a Grienke is about the best possible replacement for Felix at this point(as far as ML ready pitching), and would help with the PR hit Seattle will take for trading Felix. maybe if they can get a top hitting prospect and a ML ready player it could get done.

 

Just saying it's an interesting thought.

[The_Destroyah]

Im with Dipre here, I just really dont see that Seattle stands to gain much with that, but IMO its just as likely as many of the other Felix Pipe dreams, cuz I dont see Felix goin anywhere.

[Dipre]

Actually you could argue they gain 3 years of the current Cy Younf award winner, over 2 years of the guy who finished in 2nd place

 

All the Felix talk starts with the premises Seattle won't be able to afford him.

 

So they move the final two years of Felix, for 3 years of Grienke, at which they might be able to re-sign him, or could move him for probably a similar or = package they could have gotten for Felix. Bringing in a Grienke is about the best possible replacement for Felix at this point(as far as ML ready pitching), and would help with the PR hit Seattle will take for trading Felix. maybe if they can get a top hitting prospect and a ML ready player it could get done.

 

Just saying it's an interesting thought.

 

It's an interesting thought that makes no sense.

 

Would you trade a certainty (Hernandez) for a man who, even though he's thrived lately, suffers from an anxiety disorder (Greinke) because of one year of control?, not only that, but Felix is 3 years younger meaning signing him to a long term contract makes much more sense.

 

Also, you talk like Seattle is Kansas City, they have the available resources to keep Felix, specially since the Beltre contract expired.

 

Stop dreaming.

[BSN07]

It's an interesting thought that makes no sense.

 

Would you trade a certainty (Hernandez) for a man who, even though he's thrived lately, suffers from an anxiety disorder (Greinke) because of one year of control?, not only that, but Felix is 3 years younger meaning signing him to a long term contract makes much more sense.

 

Also, you talk like Seattle is Kansas City, they have the available resources to keep Felix, specially since the Beltre contract expired.

 

Stop dreaming.

 

Yes because we all now Seattle is a pressure cooker the likes of which KC has never seen

 

As far as Seattle's finances go, are they really going to be able to tie up 18M+ in just Felix for the next 6+ years? If not, they could do a lot worse then Grienke as a replacement.

 

Also I'm not the one who stated that Seattle or KC would not be able to sing there guys to longterm deals. I just assume like everyone else that writes/talks about these situations that there is a decent chance the teams will not be able to match big market offers if these players aren't extended and reach the open Market.

 

Besides it's no more dreamy then the Hanley, Felix, AG, Halladay, Mauer(FA) talks that have been going on here. Each case has reasons to think it will work, and reasons it might not. Just sayin

[BSN07]

Star free agent outfielder Jason Bay has declined Boston's initial contract offer and will head to full free agency, SI.com has learned.

 

Boston's offer to Bay was believed to be for four years and "close to $60 million,'' according to sources. Bay thus will join star outfielder Matt Holliday and ace pitcher John Lackey as the biggest free agents on this year's market. The exclusive period for incumbent teams expires Friday at 12:01 a.m., when free agents can begin negotiating with other teams.

 

Not shocking. But I guess it's official now that he turned down their initial offer.

[Dipre]

Yes because we all now Seattle is a pressure cooker the likes of which KC has never seen

 

As far as Seattle's finances go, are they really going to be able to tie up 18M+ in just Felix for the next 6+ years? If not, they could do a lot worse then Grienke as a replacement.

 

Also I'm not the one who stated that Seattle or KC would not be able to sing there guys to longterm deals. I just assume like everyone else that writes/talks about these situations that there is a decent chance the teams will not be able to match big market offers if these players aren't extended and reach the open Market.

 

Besides it's no more dreamy then the Hanley, Felix, AG, Halladay, Mauer(FA) talks that have been going on here. Each case has reasons to think it will work, and reasons it might not. Just sayin

 

Florida is Florida. They will trade anyone for the right price. Premise incorrect.

 

San Diego is in rebuilding mode. Seattle isn't. Premise incorrect.

 

Mauer is a dream. He will re-sign with Minnesota.

 

But don't try to lump them together to justify the fact that you know that Felix is just a pipe dream.

[jacksonianmarch]

In past seasons, a few players signed within hours of the deadline passing. So today should be interesting. But the big boys, I expect to take a LOOONG time.

 

Plus, Bay will absolutely get more AAV and yrs than 4 and 60. If thats all Theo is gonna go with him, then he's gone. But I have a feeling Theo has a 5 yr deal kicking around somewhere

[Rdsxmbnt]

But I have a feeling Theo has a 5 yr deal kicking around somewhere

 

...with Holliday's agent

[jacksonianmarch]

A 5 yr deal isnt getting Holliday, at least not right now.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Where are you pulling this from? A 5yr 80-90 mil is probably a VERY competitive offer in this market

[jacksonianmarch]

What I meant is that Boras is not jumping at that right now. Unless the market crashes and every team needing corner OF help dissipates, then Boras wouldnt accept a deal like that. Holliday is primed for a 6+ yr deal at an AAV near $20 mil. And until he gets that, he isnt biting.

[BSN07]

5-6 years at 17-20M AAV is something I see the Sox offering for Holliday. And it being a competitive offer they would consider and hold on to.

 

I could also see Boras getting together with some club like he did last offseason with the Sox. And telling them if you give me 6 or 7 years at 20-22M AAV and you can sign Holliday tonight before you walk out the door. So maybe they won't even get a chance to sign him :dunno:

 

Or maybe all of us are in denial and the Yankees will undoubtedly get the final call and a chance to trump everyones offer by 10-20M.

[TheMino007]

Nick Johnson should be a plan B option for 1st base. Guy had a .415 OBP last year, which I belive was 3rd in all of baseball. Knock on the guy is that can't stay healthy, but he did have 580 AB's last season. Hopefully he would be signed to a one year deal as more of a stop gap solution, also the Sox can benefit from his defense before it declines too much in the upcoming years.

[BSN07]

Nick Johnson should be a plan B option for 1st base. Guy had a .415 OBP last year' date=' which I belive was 3rd in all of baseball. Knock on the guy is that can't stay healthy, but he did have 580 AB's last season. Hopefully he would be signed to a one year deal as more of a stop gap solution, also the Sox can benefit from his defense before it declines too much in the upcoming years.[/quote']

 

nick Johnson should be plan "F"

[jacksonianmarch]

Nick Johnson and his OBP are intriguing thoughts for any team. If he somehow made it to NY, he's replace Damon in the 2 hole.

[BSN07]

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick is reporting that contract extension talks between Josh Johnson and the Marlins have reached an impasse, and that the righthander will not agree to a new deal with the team at all.

 

"Based on our conversations, there's no chance of doing a long-term deal with the Marlins," [Johnson's agent Matt] Sosnick said. "We made it clear that it was going to be this year or it wasn't going to happen. It was now or never. And the Marlins agreed."

 

 

Bound to get brought up eventually. I would actually prefer Johnson to say Halladay. I know the price is going to be steep. But Johnson would make a nice #3/4/5, and is a good fall back plan if Beckett can not be signed. Not saying it will be easy, but something the Sox should undoubtedly look in on.

 

 

The Red Sox have expressed interest in four players - all Scott Boras clients - early in the hot stove season, according to Mike Silverman of The Boston Herald. Those four players would be Matt Holliday, Adrian Beltre, Mike Gonzalez, and Rick Ankiel.

[BoSox21]

everytime I see Mike Gonzalez pitch, I wanna punch him in the face. His delivery is so annoying

[jacksonianmarch]

Josh Johnson isnt getting dealt this offseason. He under control for 2 more teams and Florida has a small window to actually do something

[example1]

everytime I see Mike Gonzalez pitch' date=' I wanna punch him in the face. His delivery is so annoying[/quote']

 

Me too, but it looks hard to hit against.

 

 

About Josh Johnson, yes, by all means if the Sox can land him it would be great, assuming that it could be done without Buchholz (that's the only way it would happen for the Sox, IMO).

 

Not as good as Felix, probably better long-term than Halladay, definitely better longterm than Lackey (contract-wise).

 

I bet the Red Sox could resign him to Beckett type money (most recent contract) and that Florida is balking at a deal like that. Seems like a great time to swoop in and get a deal done.

[a700hitter]

A big nothing move by the Sox picking up a guy off waivers from Seattle.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/11/sox_claim_right.html

[Keeper]

Josh Johnson is an ace when he's healthy, but the man is brittle. He's Kerry Wood Jr.

 

Jul 10, 2008: Missed 91 games (elbow surgery).

Mar 29, 2008: Transferred from the 15-day DL to the 60-day DL (elbow surgery).

Mar 24, 2008: Elbow surgery, 15-day DL.

Oct 1, 2007: Missed the last 77 games of the regular season (forearm injury).

Aug 10, 2007: Transferred from the 15-day DL to the 60-day DL (forearm injury).

Jul 5, 2007: Forearm injury, 15-day DL.

Jun 18, 2007: Missed 70 games (bicep injury).

Mar 31, 2007: Bicep injury, 15-day DL.

Sep 21, 2006: Right forearm injury, day-to-day.

[ehaz]

Josh Johnson isnt getting dealt this offseason. He under control for 2 more teams and Florida has a small window to actually do something

His agent just told the media that Florida has no chance in hell. He's two seasons away from FA and whenever Johnson has shown potential in the past, he's screwed up the next season with injuries. Does it make sense for Florida to let him walk? Florida will NEVER get in the playoffs until they stop shipping off every arbitration eligible player and until they spend some actual dough. Johnson's value will NEVER be higher than it is now. Florida doesn't care about taking PR hits, seeing as they have no fans anyways.

[example1]

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/story?id=4673829

 

Gammons on the possibility of trading for Gonzalez:

 

I'm skeptical on a Gonzalez deal. "Jed [Hoyer] knows us too well," one Red Sox official told me earlier this month. "He's going to ask for Casey Kelly and Westmoreland, and they're the best we have and we're not trading them."

 

Random quote, but if they're actually not willing to move Kelly or Westmoreland (or presumably Buchholz), I doubt they will get anyone like Gonzalez or Felix or (of course) Hanley or Fielder, etc., If I were another team I would ask for at least one if not both (along with other players).

 

Also...

 

Epstein is going to sit down with Kelly in the next month and make it clear they want him to pitch, and the way he is growing -- they think he's going to be 6-foot-4 and grow into a power pitcher with exceptional feel and command -- he could be in Boston by the end of the 2010 season.

 

Take it with a grain of salt, of course (it's Gammons), but that would be the fastest move through the system that I can remember for a Sox pitcher under this ownership group. Who am I missing?