Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Emmz]

Josh Johnson is a guy who hasn't missed time since his surgery... JJ's worth trading for, really, he absolutely dominated the Yankees in his start against them too. I'd love to see that happen

[Emmz]

Oh well, back to Hot Stove talk.

 

 

 

I think Josh Johnson may have turned into my new #1 trade target. I think he could be signed for a Beckett type extension after being traded for. Not sure what the price tag would be though. That and will the marlins move him now while his value is probably the highest it's ever been, or risk it and try and get more at the TDL or next off season :dunno:

 

Kelly(Westmoreland)+Bowden+Anderson+MDC(Reddick)????

 

Does Florida hang up the phone laughing or intrigued?

 

Beckett

Lester

JJ

Buchholz

Dice-K

 

drool...

 

That'd be an extremely good starting rotation, but the price on JJ isn't THAT high. I think that they'd probably make that deal, but I don't think the Sox really want to give up that much

[Dipre]

By going to sleep, you'll improve your posting.

 

On another front, I sure do get the spelling of Holliday/Halladay wrong pretty often, don't I? LOL!!!

 

I'm not saying that the Red Sox won't have quality players coming up. However, so will the Yankees. The Blue Jays will look to restock with HALLADAY most likely traded. The Orioles have some good young players. Who the f*** knows about Tampa?

 

Where the Red Sox had a the majority of quality homegrown talent in the AL East in the last 10 years, I think that gap has shrunk.

 

You don't even know what the article was talking about. You're just running your mouth out of ignorance and stupidity.

 

Jesus Christ.

[BSN07]

You don't even know what the article was talking about. You're just running your mouth out of ignorance and stupidity.

 

Jesus Christ.

 

2 of the 5 pillars that form Gom's personal mental structure.

[example1]

Where the Red Sox had a the majority of quality homegrown talent in the AL East in the last 10 years, I think that gap has shrunk.

 

First of all, I don't think the Red Sox have had a majority of quality homegrown talent in the AL East in the last 10 years. They've had some, not a majority.

 

Second, the point isn't just to have a player that you've developed be somewhere on your roster. The point is to develop players who are good enough to supplant established, MLB FAs and veterans who would cost a lot more. Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Ellsbury, Papelbon, Delcarman, and Lowrie have all done that already.

 

By carefully planning and projecting the roster into the future the FO can develop guys for particular spots and not have to wade into the FA pool, saving their limited cash for positions where internal development is impossible. It takes careful planning and discipline to not accidentally fall into the "easy" answer of just getting the easiest FA when there's an opening on the roster.

 

So far I haven't seen the Yankees take many risks with their roster and so I haven't seen it pay off. When they suit up Montero with an MLB average replacement behind him, or if they plan to go with Austin Jackson without him needing to supplant a former all-star who is making more than $10m a year you can let me know. The closest they've come is in the bullpen and end of the rotation with Joba/Hughes, but both of those are pretty low risk when they've got CC, Burnett, and Pettitte making close to $40m between them--they're being paid a lot to deliver a lot.

 

So it isn't an issue of having some token homegrown players on the roster. It's an issue of using homegrown talent to maxamize the team's resources to stay competitive. That means homegrown SPs and important position players.

 

One should expect teams with fewer resources to have homegrown players all over the place. The difference the Sox have is that their homegrown players end up being better than what's available for way more money--otherwise they wouldn't get a chance to play. If the Sox keep spending their money wisely, and developing players into key positions, they should be able to actually compete with teams whose fanbases don't give a s*** about developing players and who would prefer to spend $200m/yr on a team loaded with FAs and expensive re-signs.

 

The Red Sox will be fine, I'm not worried about the Jays or Orioles taking over their role in the division, because that role is about wins, not homegrown talent.

[Dipre]

I just love how he implies the Blue Jays or Orioles will be able to trot out a roster that can match the Sox in the near future without knowing anything about the state of their farm system, payroll limitations or contractual obligations.

 

Please please please Gom, i beg you, think before you post.

 

Credibility. LOL.

[Cocos Disciples]

The Blue Jays probably have the worst farm system in baseball. Even with the bounty they would get for Halladay, it would probably still be the worst in the East.

[Gom]

I just love how he implies the Blue Jays or Orioles will be able to trot out a roster that can match the Sox in the near future without knowing anything about the state of their farm system, payroll limitations or contractual obligations.

 

Please please please Gom, i beg you, think before you post.

 

Credibility. LOL.

 

I never said they did. However, getting one impact player a year from your farm system is considered good, in my opinion. The Blue Jays, assuming they trade Holliday, will get at least two bonafide prospects, and probably 3-4. The Orioles will have Wieters, Jones, and some good young pitching. The Yankees system is improving. Now, admittedly, I don't know much about minor league baseball. I did do some researching, and I'd love it if someone can IM me a top 100 list of current prospects. Here is a link:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2009/267800.html

 

Here is the teams with the top prospects by number of prospects in the top 100.

 

7 Athletics, Rangers

6 Marlins

5 Braves, Rays

4 Orioles, White Sox, Guardians, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, Giants, Mariners

3 Red Sox, Rockies, Royals, Twins, Yankees, Pirates, Cardinals, Blue Jays

2 Diamondbacks, Cubs, Reds, Angels, Dodgers

1 Tigers, Astros, Padres, Nationals

 

Now, this is an older link from this past year, it has Price and Adenheart and Porcello, etc. If anyone can post a current one with the numerical rankings, great. However, even the prospects that made it will just be hitting their stride in 2012, for the most part. Just from looking at this, the Rays seem to have a decent farm system. So do the Orioles. The Yankees, Blue Jays, and Red Sox are all lumped together. This doesn't jive with a bumper crop of players who will suddenly fuel a Red Sox dominant run starting in 2012. All teams are getting smarter. Baseball is a copy-cat business. Once one team finds success with a mode, other teams start to copy it. This is what I mean the gap is shrinking. As for payroll limitations, we all know what they are, and in what order in the AL, from least to first.

 

1. Yankees

2. Red Sox

3a. Orioles

3b. Toronto

5. Tampa

 

Contractual obligations? Here they are for 2012 [in millions]

 

Yankees: $99.634

Red Sox: $30.833

Blue Jays: $36.643 [Vernon Wells kills them]

Orioles: $22.350

Tampa: $11.430

 

Objectivity, my taco-eating friend. Funny. You're like a hooker preaching about abstinence before marriage. I've noticed something here on my few years on this board, since I basically joined this board to get a differing point of view. You guys are turning into Yankee fans.

 

What do I mean by this?

 

1) You believe that other teams are their to restock your team. The quality of trade proposals I have seen offered here is getting continually worse.

 

2) You believe in a never-ending supply of great talent. We did that. Got Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Mariano, Pettitte. A lot of us thought it would continue indefinitely. Why not? We have money, players want to sign with us, etc. It's not the exact science a lot of you guys think it is. Case in point? Tommy Hansen, 22nd round draft pick.

 

3) You believe your own press clippings. The Yankees are phenomenal at PR. There is an industry quote that the Yankees like their prospects less the closer they are to the big leagues. The Yankees convince their fans, and more importantly, other organizations, that they have a bevy of 16-18 year old talent that is the next coming of Pujols and King Felix. A lot of idiot Yankee fans believe it. A lot of you guys are falling into the same ignorant hole Yankee fans have lived in for years.

 

4) The more actively involved a team is in the free agent market, the harder it is for them to stockpile talent. Due to the loss of draft picks.

 

Now these are generalizations, not directed to any one person, rather to the group, as a whole. Dipre is an *******. [i just couldn't help it, the last two lines just rhymed.]

 

I'm not saying that your farm system sucks. I simply don't know enough about minor league baseball to feel anything more than a trend about it, or a general leaning one way or the other. If I don't know about something, I'll admit it, instead of making s*** up. I'm not Dipre. I just don't think it's as rosy as you guys are being told, or led to believe.

[yankees228]

First of all, I don't think the Red Sox have had a majority of quality homegrown talent in the AL East in the last 10 years. They've had some, not a majority.

 

Second, the point isn't just to have a player that you've developed be somewhere on your roster. The point is to develop players who are good enough to supplant established, MLB FAs and veterans who would cost a lot more. Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Ellsbury, Papelbon, Delcarman, and Lowrie have all done that already.

 

By carefully planning and projecting the roster into the future the FO can develop guys for particular spots and not have to wade into the FA pool, saving their limited cash for positions where internal development is impossible. It takes careful planning and discipline to not accidentally fall into the "easy" answer of just getting the easiest FA when there's an opening on the roster.

 

So far I haven't seen the Yankees take many risks with their roster and so I haven't seen it pay off. When they suit up Montero with an MLB average replacement behind him, or if they plan to go with Austin Jackson without him needing to supplant a former all-star who is making more than $10m a year you can let me know. The closest they've come is in the bullpen and end of the rotation with Joba/Hughes, but both of those are pretty low risk when they've got CC, Burnett, and Pettitte making close to $40m between them--they're being paid a lot to deliver a lot.

 

So it isn't an issue of having some token homegrown players on the roster. It's an issue of using homegrown talent to maxamize the team's resources to stay competitive. That means homegrown SPs and important position players.

 

One should expect teams with fewer resources to have homegrown players all over the place. The difference the Sox have is that their homegrown players end up being better than what's available for way more money--otherwise they wouldn't get a chance to play. If the Sox keep spending their money wisely, and developing players into key positions, they should be able to actually compete with teams whose fanbases don't give a s*** about developing players and who would prefer to spend $200m/yr on a team loaded with FAs and expensive re-signs.

 

The Red Sox will be fine, I'm not worried about the Jays or Orioles taking over their role in the division, because that role is about wins, not homegrown talent.

 

I don't find the comparison to the Yankees to be a fair one.

 

You're giving the Red Sox credit for Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Ellsbury, Papelbon, Delcarman, and Lowrie.

 

Fair enough.

 

But then, at the same time you're only going to give the Yankees credit for Hughes and Joba? How about Melky Cabrera, Brett Gardner, Robinson Cano, Phil Coke, and David Robertson. Most of those guys haven't been as successful as the Red Sox you've named, but the Yankees have entrusted important roles to them, so the comparison is a legitimate one.

[Dipre]

The point is, you cannot be making assessments about other teams if you know nothing about their Minor League system.

 

The reason i bring up contractual obligations for both Toronto and Baltimore is that, besides bringing up players from their farm system, they need to solidify their roster with Free Agents who will help them be competitive. If you look at their payroll figures for their next couple years, just as your analysis shows, because of arbitration raises, they simply won't have the flexibility to make enough of an impact through the FA market to offset any potential problems that might arise if some of their main prospects flunk.

 

You just don't know enough about farm systems to have an opinion about how the Red Sox or any other team is going to evolve over the next few years, add to that your obvious bias, and the posts simply sound ridiculous.

 

This is why i mention your credibility.

 

This is directed @Gom.

[yankees228]

Gom, I'll just say this. I know you're talking about trends you've noticed, but when you make general comments about other team's farm systems and young players, and then turn around and say that you're not very knowledgable on these things, you tend to lose some credibility.

[example1]

How about Melky Cabrera' date=' Brett Gardner, Robinson Cano, Phil Coke, and David Robertson. Most of those guys haven't been as successful as the Red Sox you've named, but the Yankees have entrusted important roles to them, so the comparison is a legitimate one.[/quote']

 

Which of those players would not be very quickly replaced by a FA if the right one came along? Cano. Otherwise, Cabrera, Gardner, Coke and Robertson are placeholders. The bullpen guys may be less-so, because the common knowledge is that bullpen arms aren't worth the FA cost for the most part.

 

I would argue that Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon and Bard all represent guys who the Red Sox would be ill-advised to try to improve upon. Lowrie, on the other hand, fits the Melky/Gardner mold IMO.

[Dipre]

Gom' date=' I'll just say this. I know you're talking about trends you've noticed, but when you make general comments about other team's farm systems and young players, and then turn around and say that you're not very knowledgable on these things, you tend to lose some credibility.[/quote']

 

Exactly my point.

[yankees228]

Which of those players would not be very quickly replaced by a FA if the right one came along? Cano. Otherwise, Cabrera, Gardner, Coke and Robertson are placeholders. The bullpen guys may be less-so, because the common knowledge is that bullpen arms aren't worth the FA cost for the most part.

 

I would argue that Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon and Bard all represent guys who the Red Sox would be ill-advised to try to improve upon. Lowrie, on the other hand, fits the Melky/Gardner mold IMO.

 

I think they plan to have Melky Cabrera and David Robertson as contributing members of this team for a long time. They both could be dealt away, but that goes for guys on the Red Sox list as well.

 

You can speculate all you want on how the Yankees view these guys, and so I can, but for now, they've entrusted those guys with important roles.

[a700hitter]

Which of those players would not be very quickly replaced by a FA if the right one came along? Cano. Otherwise, Cabrera, Gardner, Coke and Robertson are placeholders. The bullpen guys may be less-so, because the common knowledge is that bullpen arms aren't worth the FA cost for the most part.

 

I would argue that Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon and Bard all represent guys who the Red Sox would be ill-advised to try to improve upon. Lowrie, on the other hand, fits the Melky/Gardner mold IMO.

Buchholz and Bard don't belong in the group with the others you mentioned. You demean their accomplishments by putting them in the same class. Lowrie doesn't deserve to be considered to be in Melky's class until he can play a full season or two. Right now he is a bit player-- a utility guy. Melky is much more than that.

[example1]

This doesn't jive with a bumper crop of players who will suddenly fuel a Red Sox dominant run starting in 2012.

 

That list is from March 23, 2009 and doesn't include or accurately evaluate players who were drafted in 2008 (because they hadn't played when the list came out), so that's Kelly and Westmoreland. It doesn't include international FAs like Iglesias, and it doesn't include the 2009 draft class.

 

It also doesn't take MLB rosters into account, so the players who will be in their primes in 2012 aren't included (Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Buchholz, Bard).

 

All teams are getting smarter.

 

Tell that to the Pittsburgh Pirates who wasted the 4th overall pick in the draft because they didn't want to pay a few million on top tier talent. You make bold claims but admit you don't know what you're talking about. I'm willing to take your word that you don't know what you're talking about, but not that all teams are getting smarter.

 

Baseball is a copy-cat business. Once one team finds success with a mode, other teams start to copy it.

 

So how come the Red Sox seem to outspend just about every other team in the draft? Even if they copy the Sox, it doesn't negate the fact that the Red Sox have had two stellar drafts in 08 and 09 and stand poised to do it again in 2010.

 

 

Contractual obligations? Here they are for 2012 [in millions]

 

Yankees: $99.634

Red Sox: $30.833

Blue Jays: $36.643 [Vernon Wells kills them]

Orioles: $22.350

Tampa: $11.430

 

 

Not sure what you're trying to show here... Looks like the Red Sox have 100m or so to spend and are in better financial shape than the Jays and close to the O's. I wouldn't assume that the Os and Jays are about to take over.

 

You're like a hooker preaching about abstinence before marriage.

 

And you're like a teacher who hasn't sat through a day of class in his life. Or a football coach who has never played the game. You admit you don't know anything about what you're talking about, then gloat as if you know what you're saying.

 

2) You believe in a never-ending supply of great talent. We did that. Got Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Mariano, Pettitte. A lot of us thought it would continue indefinitely. Why not? We have money, players want to sign with us, etc. It's not the exact science a lot of you guys think it is. Case in point? Tommy Hansen, 22nd round draft pick.

 

You were stupid to think it would continue indefinitely. The Red Sox and Yankees are different. The Red Sox value keeping their farm system success nearly as much as they value the success of the MLB club. The Yankees did not. Big difference.

 

3) You believe your own press clippings. The Yankees are phenomenal at PR. There is an industry quote that the Yankees like their prospects less the closer they are to the big leagues. The Yankees convince their fans, and more importantly, other organizations, that they have a bevy of 16-18 year old talent that is the next coming of Pujols and King Felix. A lot of idiot Yankee fans believe it. A lot of you guys are falling into the same ignorant hole Yankee fans have lived in for years.

 

The only ignorant hole I see is the steaming crater left by your most recent post...

 

4) The more actively involved a team is in the free agent market, the harder it is for them to stockpile talent. Due to the loss of draft picks.

 

Thanks genius. We all know that. The Red Sox live and die by this understanding... You will still tout the stupidity of not resigning Damon, yet they got Daniel Bard because of it. They let Cabrera, Lowe and Martinez walk after 2004 and got Ellsbury, Hansen (flipped for part of Jason Bay), Buchholz, Lowrie, Bowden and Egan (bust) because of it.

 

I just don't think it's as rosy as you guys are being told, or led to believe.

 

But you admit you don't know what you're talking about, so what you think doesn't have any basis in reality. You will assume that be are being sold a bill of goods. I will assume that Baseball Prospectus and Baseball America know more than you do. They weren't wrong about Pedroia, Ellsbury, Bard, Buchholz, Lester, Papelbon, etc.,

 

BTW Gom, the Braves had one of the best farm system for years and years. Other teams may have been "copycats", but they weren't able to replicate it. I am under no false belief that the Sox have the best system in baseball--they don't. They do, however, have one of the best systems in baseball combined with a lot of resources to supplement that system and to restock it every season. That's a different combination than other teams have and one which has been the vision of Theo's tenure in Boston... the $100m player development machine.

[example1]

Buchholz and Bard don't belong in the group with the others you mentioned. You demean their accomplishments by putting them in the same class. Lowrie doesn't deserve to be considered to be in Melky's class until he can play a full season or two. Right now he is a bit player-- a utility guy. Melky is much more than that.

 

You also don't know what you're talking about. Lectures from a700 and Gom--two self-professed non-prospect followers--about valuation of prospects... what a day. Does it take a subscription to get your ideas, or do they come for free?

 

I will agree about Lowrie not having produced much. I included him as a homegrown talent the Sox would probably try to improve upon if offered something better through FA... just like Melky. THAT'S the group I'm lumping them together in.

[Dipre]

I'd just like to know if Clay Bucholz f***ed a700's daughter, or the laptop he stole came from a store he owned, because seriously.

[a700hitter]

I'd just like to know if Clay Bucholz f***ed a700's daughter' date=' or the laptop he stole came from a store he owned, because seriously.[/quote']Why, because I won't consider his accomplishments as being comparable to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester or Papelbon? Do you think he belongs with that group at this point?

[Dipre]

Why' date=' because I won't consider his accomplishments as being comparable to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester or Papelbon? Do you think he belongs with that group at this point?[/quote']

 

No.

 

Because you'll take every chance you get to bash the kid.

[example1]

Why' date=' because I won't consider his accomplishments as being comparable to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester or Papelbon? Do you think he belongs with that group at this point?[/quote']

 

 

That "group" wasn't put together based on what they have accomplished. It was put together based on the Red Sox valuing him highly enough that they slot him comfortably into a rotation spot and don't plan on having to improve his spot with a FA.

 

Even if they acquire another FA pitcher--which may or may not be warranted--they wouldn't be doing it out of concerns for Buchholz. They would be doing it to improve on Wakefield or whichever 5th starter is filling in for Wake's most recent injury.

 

I think you missed the point of what I was talking about, which will lead you down many roads that aren't valid critiques.

 

It isn't stupid fans who are overvaluing Buchholz. If is the FO, the scouts, the scouting journals and other teams who are valuing him as highly as they do. He was a #1 prospect in baseball two years ago and his stuff and confidence have gotten better.

[a700hitter]

That "group" wasn't put together based on what they have accomplished. It was put together based on the Red Sox valuing him highly enough that they slot him comfortably into a rotation spot and don't plan on having to improve his spot with a FA.

 

Even if they acquire another FA pitcher--which may or may not be warranted--they wouldn't be doing it out of concerns for Buchholz. They would be doing it to improve on Wakefield or whichever 5th starter is filling in for Wake's most recent injury.

 

I think you missed the point of what I was talking about, which will lead you down many roads that aren't valid critiques.

 

It isn't stupid fans who are overvaluing Buchholz. If is the FO, the scouts, the scouting journals and other teams who are valuing him as highly as they do. He was a #1 prospect in baseball two years ago and his stuff and confidence have gotten better.

If they deal Buchholz for Felix, it wouldn't be to improve on Buchholz? you also, included Bard in that grouping. I don't see him as comparable to Papelbon, Lester, Pedroia, and Ellsbury. You are right that I don't get your point.

[Dipre]

If they deal Buchholz for Felix' date=' it wouldn't be to improve on Buchholz? you also, included Bard in that grouping. I don't see him as comparable to Papelbon, Lester, Pedroia, and Ellsbury. You are right that I don't get your point.[/quote']

 

I'll give you Bard though. Relief pitchers are nowhere near as important as a SP.

[bsox0407]

One baseball rumor about Lowell is that in Spring Training he will be working at firstbase.

 

Also Drew had surgery.

[a700hitter]

No.

 

Because you'll take every chance you get to bash the kid.

How is criticizing a post that compares him to Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia and Lester a bashing of Buchholz? I don't bash him. I acknowledge his potential, but I am not going to declare him as a ML star like the others are you?

[BSN07]

If they deal Buchholz for Felix' date=' it wouldn't be to improve on Buchholz? you also, included Bard in that grouping. I don't see him as comparable to Papelbon, Lester, Pedroia, and Ellsbury. You are right that I don't get your point.[/quote']

 

omg really? It is a very simple and basic concept he's trying to relay to you.

[Gom]

This is funny. Believe the hype fellas. I don't. I don't buy it until they make it here. Buchholz? Not proven yet. Chamberlain? Not yet. Hughes? Million dollar arm, ten cent brain. I'm not saying these players can't be All-Stars. I'm just saying they haven't arrived yet, according to me. Lester's made it. So has Youk and Pedroia. Bard? Nope. Remember, this is me. I value consistency.

 

The true stupidity here is that you guys continue to believe in what you haven't seen yet.

 

In the Santana deal to Boston that was proposed, the great majority of you wanted to give up Lester instead of Buchholz. Remember? How would that have turned out? Lester's been every bit as good as Johan, and he's younger and healthier at this point.

 

As for teams getting smarter...there are always some s*** teams. I don't know about the minors, admittedly, but the Jays have turned out some good young pitching in recent years, the Rays have been phenomenal, and the Orioles have some solid arms and Wieters.

 

In the AL East at least, the gap between the Rays and Red Sox and the rest of the division has tightened up. I don't see how you guys can argue against that. I believe the Yankees have more home-grown players on their roster at the end of the season than the Red Sox did. If not, it was close. When was the last time that happened?

 

I'm not valuating the prospects, which most of you have never seen before, but rather I'm looking at what they've done in recent years. Also, a quick search for prospects showed that the whole AL East is kind of bunched up in the number of prospects in the top 100.

 

I think baseball prospects are the equivalent of spring training. Everyone has a shot, everyone can dream. When the real games begin, it's a different story a lot of times. I've listened to you guys on both sides, Jacko for the Yankees and a bunch of you guys for the Sox...and most of you were burying Pedroia when he couldn't hit for s*** when he came up, most of you were touting Buchholz as the next dominant pitcher, while willing to trade Lester, Ellsbury was a Henderson-like clone, Joba was the next Mariano or Clemens [sans steroids], Hughes was a four pitch marvel, Hansen was a closer in waiting, ditto Bard...so excuse me if I say most of you have been more miss than hit, yet you tout yourself as experts. Admittedly, the jury is still out on a lot of these guys. Most of you know that I put more faith in veterans than in prospects. How do things change if the Yankees get Chapman? Or the Red Sox. Too many variables. The best prospect in 2012 in the AL East may not have even been drafted yet.

 

I'm not saying that the Red Sox prospects are s***, but most of you can't read and take it that way. I'm saying the talent level between the Sox prospects and the rest of the AL East probably won't be as big a gap as you guys want to believe in 2012 and beyond.

 

Sorry Dipre, I'll listen to what others have to say. Not you. You're an outright liar, the boy who cried wolf. Even when you say something that might be true, I just can't believe it. Someone has to validate what you say for me to believe it...and even then I'd have to look it up.

[a700hitter]

You also don't know what you're talking about. Lectures from a700 and Gom--two self-professed non-prospect followers--about valuation of prospects... what a day. Does it take a subscription to get your ideas, or do they come for free?

 

I will agree about Lowrie not having produced much. I included him as a homegrown talent the Sox would probably try to improve upon if offered something better through FA... just like Melky. THAT'S the group I'm lumping them together in.

 

God, you must have a learning disability. I've told you time and again that I follow our prospects. I just don't get all excited about them until they make it to the majors when I can see them play. You are all wet with your groupings here. Bard and Buchholz are not comparable under any standard to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester or Papelbon.

[BSN07]

God' date=' you must have a learning disability. I've told you time and again that I follow our prospects. I just don't get all excited about them until they make it to the majors when I can see them play. You are all wet with your groupings here. [b']Bard and Buchholz are not comparable under any standard to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester or Papelbon.[/b]

 

They are, in the way of the team doesn't have to use resources to improve upon the position those players currently fill. As in Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, Bard and Buchholz are all good enough that they Sox would probably not look to replace the with a veteran FA. that's how he is comparing them, how do you not get this?:dunno:

[a700hitter]

They are' date=' in the way of the team doesn't have to use resources to improve upon the position those players currently fill. As in Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, Bard and Buchholz are all good enough that they Sox would probably not look to replace the with a veteran FA. that's how he is comparing them, how do you not get this?:dunno:[/quote']The premise is erroneous. Either Bard or Buchholz could be a piece in a trade to bring in a big time player like Felix or Adrian Gonzalez that would improve the team. Trading the others would not improve the team. How don't you get that?