...and whoever's playing the Yankees - 2008 Game Thread

[a700hitter]

What did I tell you' date=' we have the umpires on payroll.[/quote']Here's a story told to me by a Yankee fan, whose son is an ESPN broadcaster. A couple of years ago when the Yankees were playing Pittsburgh at the stadium my friend told his friends at the game that the Yankees had a friend in the first base ump. I don't recall the ump's name, because he told me the story a couple of years ago. All I remember was that the ump had an Italian name. The ump's father started some Italian Sports museum or hall of fame in NJ. Steinbrenner donated $100k to the museum. Well as the game went along the ump was making the close calls correctly and not all of them went the Yankee's way. My friend started to get kidded by his friends about the non-existent help from the first base ump. Sheffield came up at the end of the game an hit a double play ball to end the game. He was clearly out by a full half step, but the first base ump called him safe. My recollection is that the Yankees tied the game and won on a Giambi upper deck home run. So, while I have no proof that the umps are on the Yankee payroll, I do have evidence that an umpire's father was on the payroll.

[a700hitter]

I dont understand why it matters who points it out, it's not like YES altered the video to show that Mora stepped out of the circle when he in fact didn't. Another conspiracy?

 

And you're welcome if it makes you feel that much better.

 

 

You're right, I didn't know about the rule change at the time, but how does that make it a ridiculous call when that's the rule?

 

I think you're just unwilling to admit you're wrong.

It's a ridicululous call because it is not uniformly applied. That is why no one knew the rule. There are laws about not spitting in the street, but when is the last time you heard about someone getting a ticket for it. This was a save face call by the umps, because the ump blew the putout call.

[TheKilo]

Why should he do that? He provides interesting dialog about the team that is the central topic of this message board. You provide nothing to this site other than "whiner who roots for the rival". That it is position of redundancy. Or are we supposed to find your postings about "smokin mad chronix' date=' yo" constructive?[/quote']

 

A++++++++++++++++++++++++

[a700hitter]

Here's a story told to me by a Yankee fan' date=' whose son is an ESPN broadcaster. A couple of years ago when the Yankees were playing Pittsburgh at the stadium my friend told his friends at the game that the Yankees had a friend in the first base ump. I don't recall the ump's name, because he told me the story a couple of years ago. All I remember was that the ump had an Italian name. The ump's father started some Italian Sports museum or hall of fame in NJ. Steinbrenner donated $100k to the museum. Well as the game went along the ump was making the close calls correctly and not all of them went the Yankee's way. My friend started to get kidded by his friends about the non-existent help from the first base ump. Sheffield came up at the end of the game an hit a double play ball to end the game. He was clearly out by a full half step, but the first base ump called him safe. My recollection is that the Yankees tied the game and won on a Giambi upper deck home run. So, while I have no proof that the umps are on the Yankee payroll, I do have evidence that an umpire's father was on the payroll.[/quote']

 

Here's the website for the organization. Note the second name: George Randazzo, Chairman and Founder. He's umpire Tony Randazzo's father. Investigate the organizations donors.

 

http://www.niashf.org/index2.cfm?ContentID=29

[a700hitter]

Here's the box score from the Yankee - Pittsburgh game showing that Tony Randazzo was the first base ump.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200506150.shtml

 

I remember being furoius about the obvious blown call when it happened. I heard the story about the ump's father a couple of days later.

[a700hitter]

Where are you now Gom, 26 to 6?

[a700hitter]

Good s*** ... right? This is why the Yankee fans hate me.

[ORS]

BBTN just showed Payton and Markakis getting rung up.

 

John Kruk, "[He got Markakis on the] same spot as Payton."

 

Steve Phillips, "And it was the same spot as strike one to Markakis."

 

John Kruk, "And they were all off the plate."

 

OMG, bias septik tankrz!!

 

FTR, I didn't see the game live, I was following on Gameday, and they were definitely well off the plate on review.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Good s*** ... right? This is why the Yankee fans hate me.

 

It's actually a recitation of facts. If Yankees fans hate you for the truth...well, I've gathered that sometimes that's the case. :dunno:

[a700hitter]

It's actually a recitation of facts. If Yankees fans hate you for the truth...well' date=' I've gathered that sometimes that's the case. :dunno:[/quote']They can't handle the truth.

[TheKilo]

BBTN just showed Payton and Markakis getting rung up.

 

John Kruk, "[He got Markakis on the] same spot as Payton."

 

Steve Phillips, "And it was the same spot as strike one to Markakis."

 

John Kruk, "And they were all off the plate."

 

OMG, bias septik tankrz!!

 

FTR, I didn't see the game live, I was following on Gameday, and they were definitely well off the plate on review.

 

Dude you're just proving their point and showing the NESPN bias

[26 to 6]

Where are you now Gom' date=' 26 to 6?[/quote']

Well you have to give us more than a minute to respond.

 

I see your point and really have no response, but thats one umpire. And you think none of the 29 other owners have relationships like that with umpires or baseball officials?

[a700hitter]

Well you have to give us more than a minute to respond.

 

I see your point and really have no response, but thats one umpire. And you think none of the 29 other owners have relationships like that with umpires or baseball officials?

That's just one that I know about. I am not an investigator. I learned this information through happenstance, but if it can happen with one umpire, is it so hard to believe that more might be having their pockets lined?

[26 to 6]

That's just one that I know about. I am not an investigator. I learned this information through happenstance' date=' but if it can happen with one umpire, is it so hard to believe that more might be having their pockets lined?[/quote']

Not at all. But does that mean that all of those pockets are being filled by the Steinbrenners? Is it out of the realm of possibility that say the Loria's, Angelos's, Moreno's, and Henry's of the world are guilty of the same thing?

[yankees228]

a700, here's the thing about the call which I stated a few pages ago. After the strikeout the umpire pumped his fist signaling that the batter was out. He was wrong to do that, because the ball hit the ground before Pudge caught it, but if he had made the proper call at the time then Pudge would have just tagged the runner (or thrown to first) and he would have been out anyway. The Ump called him out initially, then when he realized with all of the other umps that the ball had hit the ground, they had to come up with something to call the batter out because it would have been unfair to the Yankees for him to have reached safely.

 

Again, if the umpire had made the proper call initially there would be nothing to this. No one is pointing out that the umpire pumped his fist a few seconds after the last pitch signaling that the batter was out so I figured I would (for the second time considering my first post drew no responses and the topic is being further debated).

[yankees228]

They can't handle the truth.

 

Here's the problem, and I think I've been fair throughout this whole thing about the playing field no being level (as in I've come in with an open mind and acknowledged good points), it's not necessarily the truth.

 

Here's what you know:

 

- Steinbrenner donated money to a museum owned by the family of the first base umpire

- The first base umpire was making proper calls throughout the game

- Gary Sheffield was called safe on a force play in the ninth inning, and if he had been called out the game would have ended

- The throw beat Sheffield and he should have been called out, but the first base umpire got it wrong

 

Here's what you don't know (and neither do I or any of us):

 

- That the first base umpire's call in the ninth inning was influenced by the donation that Steinbrenner made

 

I have no problem with you pointing these things out, but you should not refer to it as "truth".

 

EDIT: And I address the main point of this post to anyone who is attempting to show that the Yankees are being helped out by anyone else. I have no issue with anyone you guys have said, and I think a lot of it makes sense, but you should not refer to it as a definite thing because it isn't.

ORS stated that in one of the threads in "anything goes" (or something along those lines). JHB made a comment way back in the Nady thread about Yankee fans living with the disgrace. This is insinuating that you know for a fact that they are playing outside the rules, however you don't know this.

[Jayhawk Bill]

JHB made a comment way back in the Nady thread about Yankee fans living with the disgrace.

 

Quote me, and cite the relevance to this thread.

 

Or just go masturbate...it's what you seem to be doing now.

[Gom]

About this whole Mora thing....

 

I used to umpire, and sometimes you get caught. I don't know if you guys ever umpired before, but sometimes you have to find a way out of it.

 

The home plate umpire called strike three. He missed that the ball bounced. When the Yankee catcher heard the call, he just trotted off the field, and so did the rest of the team. The other umpires confirmed that the ball bounced. This put the home plate umpire in a quandry. It's obvious the ball bounced, but he called strike three. If he lets the runners go, he basically gave the Orioles a tremendous advantage, instead of inning over on a strikeout, it's 2nd and 3rd. He can't exactly say that the ball didn't bounce. In his mind [and in my opinion rightfully so], the batter was out on a swing and a miss and he botched the call. So the runner went out of the baseline. About the only thing he could do. He saved face, and if he had made the right call, Mora would have been thrown out at first. This was the best call with the least amount of damage from what should have happened.

 

I've had stuff like this happen to me when I was umpiring. Sometimes you just get stuck.

 

This isn't a question of what's right or wrong. It's what should the call be.

 

It's like the Pine Tar game. Truth is, even though Brett broke the rule, MacPhail [?] was right to overturn it.

[CrespoBlows]

Instant replay is almost around the corner, so we don't have to worry about calls like this.

 

I wonder if they will allow unlimited challenges, etc...

[yankees228]

Quote me, and cite the relevance to this thread.

 

Or just go masturbate...it's what you seem to be doing now.

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/damn-yankees/10928-yanks-acquire-nady-marte-bucs-4-prospects-8.html

Post # 120

 

As for the relevance, there is more talk of the Yankees playing outside the rules in this thread, so I figured I would address all of the posters here who are making these claims.

 

And what's with the masturbation comment?

[Jayhawk Bill]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/damn-yankees/10928-yanks-acquire-nady-marte-bucs-4-prospects-8.html

Post # 120

 

As for the relevance, there is more talk of the Yankees playing outside the rules in this thread, so I figured I would address all of the posters here who are making these claims.

 

And what's with the masturbation comment?

 

First, the entire post you reference regarding Yankees fans living with the disgrace:

 

It's ok. If the Yankees win, it's a conspiracy. If the Sox win, it's overcoming such amazingly high tremendously stupendously insurmountable odds. Yeah I get it. It never ceases to amaze me how you [primarily JHB and to a lesser extent, ORS] can make such nice posts and top it off with the most illogical assumptions.

 

I think what the Mets gave up for Santana was garbage. Since it wasn't the Yankees, it was ok. If it was the Yankees who offered the same package, it would be collusion, or MLB sanctioned tampering, or whatever.

 

Deal with it. Was it collusion/tampering/etc that allowed you guys to let Damon go and sign Crisp? If it was another team, it would be collusion.

 

Go ahead...keep trying.

 

Like I said, every team always seems shocked when the deal goes to the OTHER team. The Yankees FO tried to do it when the Mets got Santana. It's a PR move designed to make the team that got the deal seem like they got a "steal" that their team didn't get a chance at.

 

********. I don't buy it when "other" GMs say it, as well as ours. The Yankees were heavily involved in Sabathia? ********. If they were, they would have gotten the deal done. Sometimes it just doesn't work out for you.

 

I waited a day, and I waited until I was sure you'd been online at Talksox. You're not planning to support your insult with explicit fact, Gom.

 

See, Gom, the issue is that you cannot dispute what I'm writing. You're used to countering others' opinions with your bluster and bias, and on most sports forums it works. It may be rude to act that way when you're a guest at another team's site, but it's usually adequate to the level of discourse.

 

This is different. I cite facts. You're failing to answer those facts.

 

Yes, the insinuation is extraordinary--but extraordinary does not begin to mean "impossible" in an era where NBA referees are sentenced to prison for selling their impartiality. Furthermore, trades are business decisions, not directly part of the game, and even the MLBPA has accused MLB of collusion in its business decisions. Once upon a time, in the days of Babe Ruth, it was perfectly acceptable to sell away star players if it fattened the owners' pockets. The St Louis Browns stayed profitable by doing just that. Now there are alleged protections against such sales, but there are no public audits of the books of the privately-held teams or their owners that would reveal a pattern of monetary transfers...bribes...that parallelled these repeated absurdities labeled as trades.

 

You cannot prove your point. I can quote journalists' and GMs' astonishment at many of the trades, and I can point out a pattern of unusually favorable results for the Yankees. The jury of the readership looks at these facts brought together, and it realizes that this last trade is not a single mistake but rather part of a pattern, and they come to understand that we cannot be getting the full story on why these trades happen.

 

You respond with unsupported allegations of illogical posting.

 

Here's the truth: your posts are illogical. Your posts are unresearched. Your posts are unnecessarily rude. And here the truth behind it all: your team, their owners, and their fans are spoiled by your resources and your past successes earned on a playing field far from level.

 

Hank Steinbrenner, this month:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Nightengale

"There's a lot of excitement around here from the Rays fans, but almost to a point of arrogance," he says. "They better be careful. They'll learn this (expletive) can change real quick."

 

The Yankees have been subsidizing the Rays and other teams with their revenue-sharing and luxury-tax payments, Steinbrenner says, so they should be thanking the Yankees.

 

"People in baseball know it, whether they want to admit it or not," Steinbrenner says. "It helps everyone when the Yankees are good. The Red Sox, whether they're good or not, doesn't necessarily matter, nationally. … Let's face it: The Yankees are baseball history. You're talking about 26 championships."

 

Hank Steinbrenner alleging arrogance on the part of Rays fans...is there a better example of irony?

 

But consider the moral implications of this quoted sentence: "It helps everyone when the Yankees are good." If Steinbrenner truly believes that--and one is challenged to conceive of why he would utter such arrogant words on record were he not to believe them in his soul--then he can be at this very moment excusing himself for whatever else it took besides prospects to acquire Marte and Nady. Were there any transfer of wealth unreported to MLB and the public, it was only for the good of MLB...not just the good of his franchise, the good of all of MLB.

 

At least in his own mind.

 

***

 

The Marte-Nady trade stinks, Gom. Any objective party, knowing all of the facts, comes to that conclusion despite the absence of the Pirates' owners explaining for ESPN and SI, on the record, why they sold two of their best players in a sale thinly disguised as a trade.

 

Live with the disgrace, Yankees fan.

 

The disgrace is that Gom confronted fact with opinion. I do research; he does insults. That's the disgrace. He's called my sample size too small, and he still doesn't know what it is--although I've been kind enough to state that the last two days of the month that I sampled exceeded what he cited--twice--as the complete sample size.

 

Regarding "What's with the masturbation comment?" you should realize that you've entered a zone of Talksox not for the thin-skinned. For the record, I was abused for about two weeks for being too thin-skinned to deal with crap like what thrown around in here. I regard that as inappropriate: I was trying to follow the posted rules. The posted rules seem not to apply. Live with it.

 

If you can't, I advise you to avoid areas where Gom and I are going at it. Frankly, if you get away from here, I've got nothing against you. If you support Gom in this flame war, I'll post as I choose.

[Gom]

Another example of GHB not proving a damn thing. You've lost. You lost this argument a long time ago.

 

There will be other one's, and I'm sure you'll get the best of me eventually. Just not today, and not on this one. Take your loss as graciously as you can, say that maybe you were wrong, in the heat of the moment, and frustrated at your Sox after seeing us get Nady/Marte and you lost Manny.

 

Believe it or not, I'd be gracious in winning this round. Try it dude. You're really beating a dead horse.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Another example of GHB not proving a damn thing. You've lost. You lost this argument a long time ago.

 

There will be other one's, and I'm sure you'll get the best of me eventually. Just not today, and not on this one. Take your loss as graciously as you can, say that maybe you were wrong, in the heat of the moment, and frustrated at your Sox after seeing us get Nady/Marte and you lost Manny.

 

Believe it or not, I'd be gracious in winning this round. Try it dude. You're really beating a dead horse.

 

Gom, you're so drunk that you can't even spell "JHB" right.

 

There is no loss: there is only research demonstrating that it's over 99% unlikely that the 2005-2007 trades would've happened without an external factor.

[Cocos Disciples]

Either he's drunk, or he's turning the J into a G, i.e. GayHawkBill. Hilarious.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Either he's drunk' date=' or he's turning the J into a G, i.e. GayHawkBill. Hilarious.[/quote']

 

Could be, in which case my previous comment about bigoted homophobic comments applies, as well as the question of why a mod team would permit such prejudicial posting.

 

:dunno:

[a700hitter]

Here's the problem, and I think I've been fair throughout this whole thing about the playing field no being level (as in I've come in with an open mind and acknowledged good points), it's not necessarily the truth.

 

Here's what you know:

 

- Steinbrenner donated money to a museum owned by the family of the first base umpire

- The first base umpire was making proper calls throughout the game

- Gary Sheffield was called safe on a force play in the ninth inning, and if he had been called out the game would have ended

- The throw beat Sheffield and he should have been called out, but the first base umpire got it wrong

 

Here's what you don't know (and neither do I or any of us):

 

- That the first base umpire's call in the ninth inning was influenced by the donation that Steinbrenner made

 

I have no problem with you pointing these things out, but you should not refer to it as "truth".

Everything I posted is a fact. There is no question of "truth." I said that the ump made a bad call that cost the Pirates the game, and I stand by that statement. The call was clearly wrong, and unusually bad for a play at first base. I never siad that I knew that the ump's call was the result of influence.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you believe politicians who state that they are not influenced by lobbyist money when they pass legislation? None of us do, but we don't know for sure. Certainly, there is an appearance of impropriety and a suspicion of influence with regard to Randazzo.

 

BTW: I shared the story only because of 26 to 6's sarcastic post that the umps were paid by the Yankees. I poted my story precisely because none of us can rule out that there is something going on... and like contributions by lobbyists, it might be completely legal, but it does buy influence.

[yankees228]

First, the entire post you reference regarding Yankees fans living with the disgrace:

 

 

 

The disgrace is that Gom confronted fact with opinion. I do research; he does insults. That's the disgrace. He's called my sample size too small, and he still doesn't know what it is--although I've been kind enough to state that the last two days of the month that I sampled exceeded what he cited--twice--as the complete sample size.

 

Regarding "What's with the masturbation comment?" you should realize that you've entered a zone of Talksox not for the thin-skinned. For the record, I was abused for about two weeks for being too thin-skinned to deal with crap like what thrown around in here. I regard that as inappropriate: I was trying to follow the posted rules. The posted rules seem not to apply. Live with it.

 

If you can't, I advise you to avoid areas where Gom and I are going at it. Frankly, if you get away from here, I've got nothing against you. If you support Gom in this flame war, I'll post as I choose.

 

With the disgrace comment, you said it to all Yankee fans, not just Gom. Because of that I figured you were talking about their favorite team cheating. Whatever, not that big a deal.

 

As for the masturbation comment, I don't understand that at all. First off, this is the Yankee game thread, not the thread where you and Gom were fighting. I've shown nothing but respect to you and every other poster on this board. And please show me where I supported Gom in the flame war...

 

I don't have thin skin, and the insult itself does not bother me, I just don't understand at all where that came from. This thread is not filled with pages of you and Gom fighting. I didn't interrupt any flame war between you to. I just did not see why you insulted me, especially with something that has absolutely nothing to do with me.

[CrespoBlows]

Could be, in which case my previous comment about bigoted homophobic comments applies, as well as the question of why a mod team would permit such prejudicial posting.

 

:dunno:

 

The views of one idiot do not pertain to the views of the entire board.

 

It's also in the "Anything Goes" forum.

 

EDIT* lol, it's not.

[yankees228]

Everything I posted is a fact. There is no question of "truth." I said that the ump made a bad call that cost the Pirates the game, and I stand by that statement. The call was clearly wrong, and unusually bad for a play at first base. I never siad that I knew that the ump's call was the result of influence.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you believe politicians who state that they are not influenced by lobbyist money when they pass legislation? None of us do, but we don't know for sure. Certainly, there is an appearance of impropriety and a suspicion of influence with regard to Randazzo.

 

BTW: I shared the story only because of 26 to 6's sarcastic post that the umps were paid by the Yankees. I poted my story precisely because none of us can rule out that there is something going on... and like contributions by lobbyists, it might be completely legal, but it does buy influence.

 

I'm not ruling it out at all, and I believe it is possible. In a later post you made a comment about the truth. It appeared to me, and I could be wrong, that you believed you had sufficient evidence to state that Randazzo made the call because of the donation.

 

Look, it's possible that he did that. But there was no way for him to know that the game was going to come down to his call. If he wanted to make sure that he was going to help the Yankees he would have swung a couple of calls their way earlier in the game. He wouldn't have waited until one of the final batters.

[Jayhawk Bill]

With the disgrace comment, you said it to all Yankee fans, not just Gom. Because of that I figured you were talking about their favorite team cheating. Whatever, not that big a deal.

 

As for the masturbation comment, I don't understand that at all. First off, this is the Yankee game thread, not the thread where you and Gom were fighting. I've shown nothing but respect to you and every other poster on this board. And please show me where I supported Gom in the flame war...

 

I don't have thin skin, and the insult itself does not bother me, I just don't understand at all where that came from. This thread is not filled with pages of you and Gom fighting. I didn't interrupt any flame war between you to. I just did not see why you insulted me, especially with something that has absolutely nothing to do with me.

 

Pardon, yankees228, but you entered a thread where Gom and I were flaming and you quoted me in my response to Gom and took issue with the words. You get what you deserve when you do that.

 

That is why I insulted you. You deserved it: you took exception to my response to Gom, a poster who is currently moving to homophobic insults in his latest attempt to overcome the shortcomings of his logic.