...and whoever's playing the Yankees - 2008 Game Thread

[a700hitter]

Looking at Girardi on the bench, can anyone figure out if he is winning or losing?

[ORS]

I am glad that the Jays are using up all their offense tonight.

This and the fact that Beckett isn't pitching in Toronto should help our cause up there.

[a700hitter]

This and the fact that Beckett isn't pitching in Toronto should help our cause up there.

Vernon Wells will be pissed when he finds out that Beckett will not be pitching.

[a700hitter]

Pavano's Saturday start is must see TV.

[BoSox21]

wow, nice lineup for the Triple A Yankees out right now

[26 to 6]

Pavano's Saturday start is must see TV.

I agree

[msubulldogs21]

Ramon Hernandez sac fly. O's lead 4-3.

[jacksonianmarch]

Rocky "Cy" Cherry

[msubulldogs21]

Jamie Walker blows.

 

5-4 NYY

[Cocos Disciples]

Congrats to Jeter on hit 2500.

[Optimist]

Shame Moose couldnt get number 17...

[jacksonianmarch]

Jeter's contract runs out at the end of 2010. He wont make 3000 by then, but we will certainly want him to stay in the lineup, but at what capacity. He could be a corner OFer? Maybe a 3b? 1b? His stick is better suited at a position like SS where his offensive production makes him such a boon, but move him off SS and he isnt worth it, IMO. This is gonna be interesting to follow as his career winds down

[ARod2212]

Jeter's contract runs out at the end of 2010. He wont make 3000 by then' date=' but we will certainly want him to stay in the lineup, but at what capacity. He could be a corner OFer? Maybe a 3b? 1b? His stick is better suited at a position like SS where his offensive production makes him such a boon, but move him off SS and he isnt worth it, IMO. This is gonna be interesting to follow as his career winds down[/quote']

It's funny, listening to sports talk radio here the last few days before Jeter's hot streak, the whispers were that Jeter was close to done, and not nearly the player he's been. One good month, and his average is back up on the verge of .300 with a month to play.

 

As for his defense, that's anybody's guess. You can't really Ripken him to 3rd with A-Rod there the next 9 years. I can't imagine him playing outfield, even though I advocated it when Bernie Williams was on his way out. It'll be interesting to see, but until his defense slips off the ledge, he'll be the shortstop.

[ORS]

As for his defense' date=' that's anybody's guess....but until his defense slips off the ledge, he'll be the shortstop.[/quote']

No guesswork is required. He's awful by every modern measure. The ledge has come and gone. But, he will remain there due to his iconic status.

[a700hitter]

It's funny, listening to sports talk radio here the last few days before Jeter's hot streak, the whispers were that Jeter was close to done, and not nearly the player he's been. One good month, and his average is back up on the verge of .300 with a month to play.

 

As for his defense, that's anybody's guess. You can't really Ripken him to 3rd with A-Rod there the next 9 years. I can't imagine him playing outfield, even though I advocated it when Bernie Williams was on his way out. It'll be interesting to see, but until his defense slips off the ledge, he'll be the shortstop.

Even after the hot streak, his production is way down. His runs, RBI are down. His power continues to diminish as it has for the last couple of years. His stolen bases are down. He is second in the league in GIDPs. He's on his way to Roberto Alomar-ville

[yankees228]

It's funny, listening to sports talk radio here the last few days before Jeter's hot streak, the whispers were that Jeter was close to done, and not nearly the player he's been. One good month, and his average is back up on the verge of .300 with a month to play.

 

As for his defense, that's anybody's guess. You can't really Ripken him to 3rd with A-Rod there the next 9 years. I can't imagine him playing outfield, even though I advocated it when Bernie Williams was on his way out. It'll be interesting to see, but until his defense slips off the ledge, he'll be the shortstop.

 

Switch A-Rod and Jeter...

 

Cue the Yankee fans who are in love with the "intangibles"...

[jacksonianmarch]

Try Jetes in CF. He's gotta be better than Damon

[ARod2212]

No guesswork is required. He's awful by every modern measure. The ledge has come and gone. But' date=' he will remain there due to his iconic status.[/quote']

 

 

=2008&league_filter[]=All&pos_filter[]=6&Submit=Submit"]This statistical measure?

[a700hitter]

He is an average SS.

[ORS]

Care to tell me how he fared in that particular stat from '04 to '07? He's having a good year by RZR, although he gets to the 2nd fewest OOZ on that list - which is telling of his range, but the anomaly for that measure is that it doesn't distinguish the type of ball hit or proximity.

 

UZR, PMR, and +/- all attempt to do this an none of them like Jeter.

 

Don't worry though, you aren't the first Yankee fan to defend his defense without ground to stand on, and you surely won't be the last, so you've got company. Intangibles FTW!

[ARod2212]

Care to tell me how he fared in that particular stat from '04 to '07? He's having a good year by RZR, although he gets to the 2nd fewest OOZ on that list - which is telling of his range, but the anomaly for that measure is that it doesn't distinguish the type of ball hit or proximity.

 

UZR, PMR, and +/- all attempt to do this an none of them like Jeter.

 

Don't worry though, you aren't the first Yankee fan to defend his defense without ground to stand on, and you surely won't be the last, so you've got company. Intangibles FTW!

The exaggeration of Jeter's lack of ability at shortstop is amazing to me. He's having a better year defensively, and he's still ripped on.

 

He's a decidedly average defensive shortstop. His range isn't great, but when he gets to the ball he makes the play. His RZR indicates this.

[jacksonianmarch]

Its very difficult for sox fans to consider Jeter good at anything. He'll just be below average all the way to the HOF

[Gom]

I don't think that Red Sox fans think he's a bad shortstop, just a bad defensive one. I think he's a poor defensive SS myself, but over his career, his offense has more than made up any defensive deficiencies. This year, not so much.

[jacksonianmarch]

This yr, surprisingly, his defense has improved, but his offense hasnt. Apparently, Jeter worked out pretty damn hard this offseason to get faster. Maybe if he worked really hard to hit a ball over the fence, he could hit a few more homers.

[Gom]

I don't care if Jeter ever hits another homer. I just want him to hit .330.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pavano is throwing 88mph sinkers that arent sinking at the letters. Get the pen warm

[jacksonianmarch]

Even Jay Payton is hitting the ball hard. Jesus.

[Gom]

Pavano is throwing 88mph sinkers that arent sinking at the letters. Get the pen warm

They've been throwing before first pitch.

[ORS]

The exaggeration of Jeter's lack of ability at shortstop is amazing to me. He's having a better year defensively, and he's still ripped on.

 

He's a decidedly average defensive shortstop. His range isn't great, but when he gets to the ball he makes the play. His RZR indicates this.

It's not an exaggeration. MGL doesn't publish UZR until the end of the year. Jeter was the worst SS in baseball last year. I don't subscribe to Bill James' website (yet), so I can't get mid-season updates, but he was the 2nd worst in +/- last year. He hasn't gotten any faster (more GIDP fewer SB ). He's having a good year in RZR because of the anomaly. RZR is blind to when the ball is hit either right at the guy or at the very edge of the zone. It counts both the same. UZR, PMR, and +/- gauge each based on contact type, where it's going, and how far the fielder has to move.

 

Telling yourself it's just an exaggeration is an excercise in self gratification. It's the truth. He's bad. The reason? Like you said, his range isn't great. SS gets the most action on the field and has the most ground to cover in the IF, yet you are OK with a fielder with bad range. Think about that.

[jacksonianmarch]

tie game. That Castro guy gave the ball a ride, something he probably hasnt done in his career to this point