Red Sox (Gray) vs Pirates (Jones): 08/15/26, 7:15 PM

[Tedballgame]

3 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

Before we fit Baez for his plaque in Cooperstown, how about we see how his second game goes.

He had 34 homers and 90 RBI in AAA. I think he will be pretty good.

[FredLynn]

50 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Is he a #2, now?

Almost 

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Pink Floyd's Final Cut

Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over a Cuckoo’s Nest 

[vegasbob]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

Tomorrow it’s Skenes v Sandoval. Unbelievably, Sandoval has a better ERA and W-L record than Skenes.

Odd that Brez didn't trade for a falling Skenes. 

But tomorrow Skenes may look better if the Sox batters don't become better batters

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over a Cuckoo’s Nest 

I know.

My comment was from Floyd

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Almost 

True, cause he's a low #1.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

True, cause he's a low #1.

No one thought he’d have a career year, including BresLOW-that’s why he signed Suarez-not that that’s surprising since BresLOW isn’t very good at his job. 
Story will probably end up at 2B with Sogard on the Worcester shuttle 

[mvp 78]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Is he a #2, now?

Can’t pitch in a big market! Look how he did in da Bronx!

[vegasbob]

Sonny Gray pitched a gem in a game they needed, as did Tolle previously. 

Miller and Chapman locked the door.

Why do the hitters. score bulk runs in the 9th ?  Don't they know the game is almost over ?

[notin]

15 hours ago, Tedballgame said:

Joshua Baez hit 3 homers today in his MLB debut. First time in history. He grew up the in Boston area right under Chaim Bloom's nose. Bloom drafted Marcelo Mayer and Jud Fabian (who the Red Sox couldn't sign) ahead of him. Brilliant.

So are you implying Mayer and Fabian were not good prospects?  Or that you want the Sox to give preferential treatment to players from Boston?  Or do you think Bloom never heard of Báez? Or that the Sox should wait for players to make their MLB debut before drafting them?

Let’s solve this.

Baez was clearly very good at Dexter School in Brookline.  But Mayer was at or near the top of everyone’s draft list, and Fabian was top ten on most despite injury and signability concerns.  Báez was 54th overall and clearly not the slam dunk on draft day that he proved to be 5 years later…

[notin]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I know.

My comment was from Floyd

Specifically to the song “The Fletcher Memorial Home” written by Roger Waters in another cathartic song about growing up without his father, Eric Fletcher Waters, who died in 1944 as a casualty of World War II.  Hence the songs repeated allusions to “incurable tyrants and kings”.

And the song has absolutely nothing to do with Louise Fletcher…

[JoeBrady]

38 minutes ago, notin said:

So are you implying Mayer and Fabian were not good prospects?  Or that you want the Sox to give preferential treatment to players from Boston?  Or do you think Bloom never heard of Báez? Or that the Sox should wait for players to make their MLB debut before drafting them?

Let’s solve this.

Baez was clearly very good at Dexter School in Brookline.  But Mayer was at or near the top of everyone’s draft list, and Fabian was top ten on most despite injury and signability concerns.  Báez was 54th overall and clearly not the slam dunk on draft day that he proved to be 5 years later…

Anyone complaining about not taking the 54th pick, with the #4 pick, based solely on geography, is not to be taken seriously.  Like Betts (#172) should've been taken #1 instead of Gerrit Cole.

[Donnie Sadler was short]

Sonny is quite the twitchy guy out there...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why would any club want a local player with a swing tailored for its home ballpark who grew up a fan of the team and was eager to sign with them, when they can instead draft a guy who lives thousands of miles away who'd rather go back to school than agree to get paid to play in one of the best baseball markets in the world?

As long as the Red Sox front office always picks the Best Player Available on their draft board, they're covered for ignoring all the other intangibles that used to matter to all the old timey scouts they fired who weren't laptops or tablets.

Good thing a draft didn't exist yet when hometown hero Tony Conigliaro signed with Boston. Otherwise, the Sox wouldn't have had a kid hitting home runs at Fenway when he was 19, or leading the league in HRs when he was 20.

[moonslav59]

11 hours ago, FredLynn said:

No one thought he’d have a career year, including BresLOW-that’s why he signed Suarez-not that that’s surprising since BresLOW isn’t very good at his job. 

You have a hard time with backing away from a chosen position.

BTW, Gray's 2023 season was his career year, and that was not far removed from his signing by Brez. Gray led the league in FIP in '23 and had a very similar ERA. His 2019 season had a better FIP and similar ERA, too. 

Yes, he's doing better than expected, but it's not out of the blue. From 2021-2025, Gray placed 10th in fWAR. You may not care for the metric, but it's based on actual data. He was 24th in xFIP. Okay, he was 67th in ERA-, but that is close to a #2 number. His IP numbers (22nd) help pad the numbers, but what is this team needs right now, but quality IP?

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, notin said:

Specifically to the song “The Fletcher Memorial Home” written by Roger Waters in another cathartic song about growing up without his father, Eric Fletcher Waters, who died in 1944 as a casualty of World War II.  Hence the songs repeated allusions to “incurable tyrants and kings”.

And the song has absolutely nothing to do with Louise Fletcher…

Yes, no matter how hard Fred tried to create a memorial for/to Louise.

[notin]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Why would any club want a local player with a swing tailored for its home ballpark who grew up a fan of the team and was eager to sign with them, when they can instead draft a guy who lives thousands of miles away who'd rather go back to school than agree to get paid to play in one of the best baseball markets in the world?

As long as the Red Sox front office always picks the Best Player Available on their draft board, they're covered for ignoring all the other intangibles that used to matter to all the old timey scouts they fired who weren't laptops or tablets.

Good thing a draft didn't exist yet when hometown hero Tony Conigliaro signed with Boston. Otherwise, the Sox wouldn't have had a kid hitting home runs at Fenway when he was 19, or leading the league in HRs when he was 20.

So if the Sox had reached for 5th round Tigers’ selection of BC’s Luke Gold over Roman Anthony, you would advocate that because it worked out once before over half a century ago?

Atlanta did use a lot of draft picks on local kids some 20 years ago, but beyond that no one bases their scouting on geography and Sox fans are going to need to learn to live with the fact that the occasional local kid will succeed and it does not mean Sox scouting is highly flawed by drafting someone else or that they “never heard of” some local kid.

At least this kid was viewed as an actual talent as opposed to the complaints that the Sox missed out on a couple mediocrities from local schools that happened to work out like Cam Schlitter and Ben Rice…

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, notin said:

So if the Sox had reached for 5th round Tigers’ selection of BC’s Luke Gold over Roman Anthony, you would advocate that because it worked out once before over half a century ago?

Atlanta did use a lot of draft picks on local kids some 20 years ago, but beyond that no one bases their scouting on geography and Sox fans are going to need to learn to live with the fact that the occasional local kid will succeed and it does not mean Sox scouting is highly flawed by drafting someone else or that they “never heard of” some local kid.

At least this kid was viewed as an actual talent as opposed to the complaints that the Sox missed out on a couple mediocrities from local schools that happened to work out like Cam Schlitter and Ben Rice…

I should hope Geography is not a factor our data guys use.

[FredLynn]

57 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You have a hard time with backing away from a chosen position.

BTW, Gray's 2023 season was his career year, and that was not far removed from his signing by Brez. Gray led the league in FIP in '23 and had a very similar ERA. His 2019 season had a better FIP and similar ERA, too. 

Yes, he's doing better than expected, but it's not out of the blue. From 2021-2025, Gray placed 10th in fWAR. You may not care for the metric, but it's based on actual data. He was 24th in xFIP. Okay, he was 67th in ERA-, but that is close to a #2 number. His IP numbers (22nd) help pad the numbers, but what is this team needs right now, but quality IP?

He’s doing better than I expected-and better I think than nearly anyone expected.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, FredLynn said:

He’s doing better than I expected-and better I think than nearly anyone expected.

He is, but he's also doing way better than you expected and just a little better than many expected.

You thought he was a 3 at best, and he's currently a number one by just about any standard of measurement. (I use the "top 30 SP'er" as my measure of who is a #1.)

It's okay to change your view when new evidence comes along.

[notin]

3 hours ago, FredLynn said:

He’s doing better than I expected-and better I think than nearly anyone expected.

Better than I expected but I also said he was a solid #2….

[FredLynn]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He is, but he's also doing way better than you expected and just a little better than many expected.

You thought he was a 3 at best, and he's currently a number one by just about any standard of measurement. (I use the "top 30 SP'er" as my measure of who is a #1.)

It's okay to change your view when new evidence comes along.

I have 

To “ better than expected”.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Better than I expected but I also said he was a solid #2….

I called him a #2 thatw as closer to a number #1 than a number 3.

His WAR and FIP showed a 1-2, but his ERA and other categories a 2-3.

[notin]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I should hope Geography is not a factor our data guys use.

I wish it was.

Maybe the Sox could have drafted local Worcester Burbs Boy me instead of wasting that high draft pick on the So Cal Pepperdine Pepperpot Steve Rodriguez, who, I’d like to point out, wasn’t any better than me in the long run…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

I have 

To “ better than expected”.

You still won't says he is currently as good as a #2, let alone a number 1 like he is.

You don't have to agree with my methodology, but I call a top 30 pitcher a #1, a 31-60 a #2, and so on. Gray is ranked as such among all pitchers with 80+ IP.

1st in Wins (old school best of the best)

15-3 (send best win% to Burns at 14-2)

9th ERA- (top tier #1)

11th ERA

33rd in fWAR (top range #2)

31st xFIP (almost #1)

43rd WHIP (mid #2)

Just say it: he is pitching like a solid #2, this year. One could argue he's a solid #1, but it depends on what you value.

There is no argument he's a number 3.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

You still won't says he is currently as good as a #2, let alone a number 1 like he is.

You don't have to agree with my methodology, but I call a top 30 pitcher a #1, a 31-60 a #2, and so on. Gray is ranked as such among all pitchers with 80+ IP.

1st in Wins (old school best of the best)

15-3 (send best win% to Burns at 14-2)

9th ERA- (top tier #1)

11th ERA

33rd in fWAR (top range #2)

31st xFIP (almost #1)

43rd WHIP (mid #2)

Just say it: he is pitching like a solid #2, this year. One could argue he's a solid #1, but it depends on what you value.

There is no argument he's a number 3.

Oh-clearly he’s pitching like a #2+ now. I viewed him as less than that at the time. Apparently BresLOW did too, which is why he signed Suarez

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Oh-clearly he’s pitching like a #2+ now. I viewed him as less than that at the time. Apparently BresLOW did too, which is why he signed Suarez

I asked you if he was a #2 now, and you replied "almost."

[moonslav59]

40 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Oh-clearly he’s pitching like a #2+ now. I viewed him as less than that at the time. Apparently BresLOW did too, which is why he signed Suarez

I think he signed Suarez because he missed on Bregman.

[moonslav59]

So, BresLOW the "idiot" traded scarps for a #3SP'er who is pitching like a 1-2.

He signed Suarez and traded for Durbin, instead of signing Bregman.

He traded scraps for Contreras who many felt was not a big bat, but he turned out to be one.

He signed guys like T Guerrero and got Monasterio and Seigler as throw-in.

With idiots like him, who needs morons?

[FredLynn]

20 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I asked you if he was a #2 now, and you replied "almost."

2+>2