New Red Sox Acquisition Curtis Mead Goes On Injured List With Fractured Wrist

[moonslav59]

Just now, notin said:

Whatever.

At least I stick to words you actually say…

Words are malleable to many, these days.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Whatever.

At least I stick to words you actually say…

Well at least you didn’t call me a hater.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Words are malleable to many, these days.

Especially those who hide behind a curtain.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Especially those who hide behind a curtain.

Not hiding. There is no point to discussion with a guy who blew a gasket when I said you and others were Bloom Bashers, and now you admit to proudly wearing a T-Shirt with my slogan on it.

Too preciouis!

Over and out, clown!

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not hiding. There is no point to discussion with a guy who blew a gasket when I said you and others were Bloom Bashers, and now you admit to proudly wearing a T-Shirt with my slogan on it.

Too preciouis!

Over and out, clown!

As always pay NO ATTENTION to the Man Behind The Curtain, and as always he’s a curse, and not a gift. Come on man I gave you credit years ago for renaming our Championship bowling team. 😂😭🤮

[mvp 78]

I'm glad I spent the rest of the morning teaching someone about accounting. It was more interesting than whatever this is. 

[JoeBrady]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

IMO, Brez knew he could get Contreras for cheap, and that's why his offer for Alonso was absurdly low. 

Likely the same with Durbin and Bregman.  If I thought I could get 3.5 WAR out of Bregman, or 3.0 WAR from Durbin, plus having the money to sign Suarez, it's not worth 5 minutes of bandwidth to go with Durbin + Suarez.

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, Old Red said:

Really? You got proof of that??5 yr, and the money was set aside for Bregman, and that fell through the money, and 5 yrs went to Ranger instead. They wasn’t going to offer Alonso the same kind of money, and length too. Lowballing Alonso had nothing to do with Con Man at all except for the money, and length maybe. Once again this was all discussed in real time. You’re always trying to interject yourself, and always trying to play catch up.🙈👋

You're the one trying to tell everyone what Breslow's Plan, Plan B, etc. is.  So I get to make my own interpretation, and a much more logical one than yours.

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

You're the one trying to tell everyone what Breslow's Plan, Plan B, etc. is.  So I get to make my own interpretation, and a much more logical one than yours.

No Breslow did. I thought Bres laid his plan out pretty well don’t you? His pursuit of Bregman. His pursuit of Alonso. It’s all right there for everyone to see. 

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

You're the one trying to tell everyone what Breslow's Plan, Plan B, etc. is.  So I get to make my own interpretation, and a much more logical one than yours.

When you are on a limited winter spending budget, looking at the balance sheet makes a lot of sense.

Instead of signing Cease of Framber, Brez gave a couple mid-level prospects and got a $21M Sonny Gray,

Instead of outbidding the O's for Alonso, who apparently wanted to play in BOS, Brez gave up a couple mid-tier prospects for an $18M Contreras.

Instead of paying Bregman what the Cubs offered him, Brez traded some pitching depth plus DHam for Durbin and infield depth, and used the Bregman money on Suarez.

We could not have afforded Bregman, Cease & Alonso. Some juggling was needed and the nerdy geek brainiac came through. It's easy to just say, ""JH could afford to ____," but that's not how Brez sees it.

The do-over trade was the one for Oviedo (Samaniego & Guzman), and maybe Brez regretted it even before he got hurt, once he signed Suarez, but it is what it is. I'm not sure how big a bat we could have gotten for Jh Garcia and Travieso, but maybe adding another piece (like in hindsight Duran or Bello) we could have filled the need. WSH probably takes Travieso and Garcia for Mead back in March.... LOL.

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

If they had that Contreras deal in hand, what were they waiting for?

It could be several things.  Maybe either or both had deals contingent on this one.  Or maybe Bloom agreed, but had a choice between two similar players that he wanted to think on.  And Contreras had a limited no-trade clause that could've caused a delay.

All of which make 10x as much sense as thinking that the RS Plan A was to sign Alsonso, but only offered him $85M/3.

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

prior to the Alonso negotiations falling apart.

They offered $85M/3.  It was clearly an offer designed to be declined.

[JoeBrady]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

All I did was point out that the plan that Bres ended up with was not the plan he wanted in the beginning

But you're wrong.  If Breslow wanted Alonso, he'd have offered him way more than $85M/3.  The numbers say that Breslow didn't want Alonso.

[JoeBrady]

47 minutes ago, Old Red said:

No Breslow did. I thought Bres laid his plan out pretty well don’t you? His pursuit of Bregman. His pursuit of Alonso. It’s all right there for everyone to see. 

You have no way out on Alonso.  They made a legit offer to Bregman, so you could make an argument there.  To suggest that Alonso was Plan A, but Breslow offered him half of what BA offered, is not discussion-worthy.

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

They offered $85M/3.  It was clearly an offer designed to be declined.

I think this way. They figured the value of Contreras minus what we traded for him and it came to a value of about $90M/3, so they offer Alonso a comparative offer- knowing he'd say no.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

But you're wrong.  If Breslow wanted Alonso, he'd have offered him way more than $85M/3.  The numbers say that Breslow didn't want Alonso.

$85M/3 indicates a liking- just not a loving.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

They offered $85M/3.  It was clearly an offer designed to be declined.

I dont think they ever made an offer hoping it would be declined or designed to be declined.  I think they knew they had a ceiling on what they could offer Alonso because they wanted to do other things alongside, and they only wanted to offer an amount that would not stand in the way of other roster changes, and probably knew that it had a good chance of being declined.

But sometimes Im surprised by the DH/1B contracts, I remember being surprised when JD Martinez for example couldnt get signed when he still had an .825 OPS bat.

[drewski6]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

$85M/3 indicates a liking- just not a loving.

thats fair.  They made an offer at their price, but I dont think they would have been annoyed had it been accepted, even though trying to raise the bid and accidentally buying is a real thing at auctions and FA is somewhat like an auction in ways.

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

You have no way out on Alonso.  They made a legit offer to Bregman, so you could make an argument there.  To suggest that Alonso was Plan A, but Breslow offered him half of what BA offered, is not discussion-worthy.

Then don’t discuss it then. The Red Sox were not going sign  two players to 5 year $150M+ contracts. All WE know for sure, and there was NO other reporting on this, which MVP laid out is that the Red Sox made an offer to Alonso first, and then when he didn’t accept a couple of weeks later made the trade for the Con Man. Now can you find anything out there to the contrary? After Bregman signed with the Cubs the Red Sox turned pretty quick, and signed Ranger. Now if you want to think Con Man, Ranger, and DUBin was the plan all along fine, but I haven’t heard that assessment anywhere else, but here, and that’s OK too.

[JoeBrady]

24 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I think they knew they had a ceiling on what they could offer Alonso because they wanted to do other things alongside,

I would suggest that means he wasn't Plan A.  To me, it means they had a whole bunch of options that they were considering and they were looking to go cheap.  A Plan A is more like the Mets signing Soto for whatever it took, or the Phillies signing Schwarber for whatever it took.

$85M/3 is more like 'He's okay, if we get him cheap'.

[drewski6]

5 hours ago, notin said:

Despite it being an unpopular stance, Ive been behind this team all year save a handful of posts generated by clear frustration…

Ive been behind them for 2 weeks

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I dont think they ever made an offer hoping it would be declined or designed to be declined.  I think they knew they had a ceiling on what they could offer Alonso because they wanted to do other things alongside, and they only wanted to offer an amount that would not stand in the way of other roster changes, and probably knew that it had a good chance of being declined.

But sometimes Im surprised by the DH/1B contracts, I remember being surprised when JD Martinez for example couldnt get signed when he still had an .825 OPS bat.

Well said. The Red Sox had a ceiling to spend on a 1B, because they had to have money set aside to sign Bregman’s. When Bregman signed with the Cubs they took that money set aside for him, and pivoted to pitching, and signed Ranger. Then, because they needed a 3B to replace what they thought they were going to have with Bregman they went out, and traded for DUBin, which has a low money contract. 

 

 

 

[notin]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Ive been behind them for 2 weeks

And you were welcomed aboard…

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, JoeBrady said:

I would suggest that means he wasn't Plan A.  To me, it means they had a whole bunch of options that they were considering and they were looking to go cheap.  A Plan A is more like the Mets signing Soto for whatever it took, or the Phillies signing Schwarber for whatever it took.

$85M/3 is more like 'He's okay, if we get him cheap'.

Well if your hung on on Plan A, which you seem to be since they offered a contract to Alonso first, and that’s the ONLY reported offer we’ll call him first option. How much did they spend on the Con Man? $85M? Nope lower, so was that okay, or better than okay?

[drewski6]

10 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I would suggest that means he wasn't Plan A.  To me, it means they had a whole bunch of options that they were considering and they were looking to go cheap.  A Plan A is more like the Mets signing Soto for whatever it took, or the Phillies signing Schwarber for whatever it took.

$85M/3 is more like 'He's okay, if we get him cheap'.

I dont believe plans are as concrete as you do, and this is one example.  Having a "plan A" implies a complicated  "if-then" logic.  They obviously went into FA with a read + react strategy, and thats really the norm these days...You dont see a lot (any?) aggressive day 1 offers/signings....The market takes shape and I think they remain flexible so they can zig with it.  Like the Cs said when they traded Jaylen Brown, "optionality"

I would argue nobody was "plan A", as they wanted to feel out the twists/turns of free-agency. If anyone, it was Bregman as (at least when FA began) - there was pretty strong expectation of a reunion and both sides clearly had enough interest to get pretty close (which we did with him).  But I dont think they were ever super concrete on Bregman being plan A.  The argument for Bregman being plan A, dont think they would have made a move that would get in the way of Bregman, until the communication broke down.  So thats why you saw the lower amount to Alonso (but I think they would have been happy had it been accepted) and thats why he didnt aggressively go after ranger until bregman was off-board.

I guess Bregman was plan A but I dont love phrasing it like that, and I think its very fluid and the plans arent usually super concrete.  

[notin]

11 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I dont believe plans are as concrete as you do, and this is one example.  Having a "plan A" implies a complicated series of "if-then" logic.  They obviously went into FA with a read + react, and thats really the norm these days...You dont see a lot (any?) aggressive day 1 offers/signings....The market takes shape and I think they remain flexibility.  Like they said when they traded Jaylen Brown, "optionality"

I would argue nobody was "plan A", as they wanted to feel out the twists/turns of free-agency. If anyone, it was Bregman as (at least when FA began) - there was pretty strong expectation of a reunion and both sides clearly had enough interest to get pretty close (which we did with him).  But I dont think they were ever super concrete on Bregman being plan A, I think they were not willing to make a rule that would get in the way of Bregman until it fell apart.  So thats why you saw the lower amount to Alonso (but I think they would have been happy had it been accepted) and thats why he didnt aggressively go after ranger until bregman was off-board.

I guess Bregman was plan A but I dont love phrasing it like that, and I think its very fluid and the plans arent usually super concrete.  

I think the whole Plan A, Plan B thing starts creating this narrative where Breslow isn’t able to get the players he wants for whatever reason and has to move on to lesser options.  He might value two players similarly but hey, he can only talk to one at a time.

And maybe I’m the only one to notice this, but he appears to talk to players in alphabetical order.  Alonso and Bregman didn’t work out? On to Contreras and Durbin.

If this is the case, don’t ever expect him to sign Rob Zastryzny.

Actually this would also explain why he ignored Andrew Vaughn last year when the White Sox were trying to give him away.  Almost got there.  Settled for Toro…

 

 

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

I think the whole Plan A, Plan B thing starts creating this narrative where Breslow isn’t able to get the players he wants for whatever reason and has to move on to lesser options.  He might value two players similarly but hey, he can only talk to one at a time.

And maybe I’m the only one to notice this, but he appears to talk to players in alphabetical order.  Alonso and Bregman didn’t work out? On to Contreras and Durbin.

If this is the case, don’t ever expect him to sign Rob Zastryzny.

Actually this would also explain why he ignored Andrew Vaughn last year when the White Sox were trying to give him away.  Almost got there.  Settled for Toro…

 

 

Wow NNN. As usual you have a take that NO one else has going A all the way to Z. Kind of like questioning a questioning mark.🤔

 

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, drewski6 said:

They obviously went into FA with a read + react strategy, and thats really the norm these days...You dont see a lot (any?) aggressive day 1 offers/signings....The market takes shape and I think they remain flexible so they can zig with it.  Like the Cs said when they traded Jaylen Brown, "optionality"

I would argue nobody was "plan A",

I'd say that's 100% correct.  I'd bet that every GM has a huge board with almost every available name on it.  And a number next to every name.  And the numbers probably change every time the names change.  If they had $150M/5 for Bregman, and Mil gives them a number on Durbin, maybe Bregman's number goes down to $135M/5.

If you look at their 2027 board, I'm betting they have Story/Arias/Monasterio on top.  But if Yordie becomes available, maybe the board looks more like Story/Monasterio/Arias.

But mostly, I would argue that nobody was "plan A".

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, notin said:

Alonso and Bregman didn’t work out? On to Contreras and Durbin.

Then added Early. Falefa, Gaspar and Harris?

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, notin said:

I think the whole Plan A, Plan B thing starts creating this narrative where Breslow isn’t able to get the players he wants for whatever reason

I'd say that was the same for everyone.  I'd bet there were several teams asking about Mead and Early, and they dropped out when the bidding went too high.  And it'll be the same if Neto gets traded.  They'll be 6 teams in pursuit, and 5 teams will drop out.