Red Sox (Crochet) vs Astros (Burrows): 4/1/26, 2:10pm

[jad]

29 minutes ago, king koji said:

He can at least get close enough that you go straight to Chapman, if not Whitlock. I'm 60 years old, I'm used to starters going close to the full nine or at least trying to. This s*** really sucks. Anyone who says it's better doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

Baseball is so much better and the players so much more skilled thn they were in the 50s and 60s.   Maybe not to grumpy old men.

[FredLynn]

This team is simply not very good. Getting bums like IKF and Durbin and letting them see the light of day in the field-instead of spending the money to get talent-proves that Henry doesn't care a bit about winning, just the bottom line.

Fourth place. I think we MIGHT be better than the Rays.

[king koji]

10 minutes ago, jad said:

Baseball is so much better and the players so much more skilled thn they were in the 50s and 60s.   Maybe not to grumpy old men.

You're just a typical young modern douche who doesn't know any better.

I forgive you..

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

33 minutes ago, jad said:

Baseball is so much better and the players so much more skilled thn they were in the 50s and 60s.   Maybe not to grumpy old men.

Today they're more talented -- bigger, stronger, faster than ever -- including the strength to throw faster than ever. 

But skills are also associated with doing more nuanced baseball deeds, like learning and mastering new pitch grips, which has always been on the list.

Rare now are batters who advance baserunners without swinging from the heels... by bunting, hitting behind the runner, choking up with two strikes and cutting down swings to STAY ALIVE (maybe choking up would help stop some whiffers from flailing when they realize they can't reach an outside pitch breaking three balls off the corner).

Watching Duran strike out last night on a slider that started at the ankles and burrowed underground is a sign modern hitting is so impossible that big leaguers have to just guess on every pitch.

[Behindenemylines]

21 hours ago, vegasbob said:

Just wait a day or two. The real season hasn't started yet , just now finishing ST working on a few things , giving a couple 20 year olds a rest day to calm their vacant minds.    

Once back in Fenway , everything will be great.

They are already 4 games out! You can't win the division in March / April, but you can lose it. The Astros series was brutal to watch!

[king koji]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Today they're more talented -- bigger, stronger, faster than ever -- including the strength to throw faster than ever. 

But skills are also associated with doing more nuanced baseball deeds, like learning and mastering new pitch grips, which has always been on the list.

Rare now are batters who advance baserunners without swinging from the heels... by bunting, hitting behind the runner, choking up with two strikes and cutting down swings to STAY ALIVE (maybe choking up would help stop some whiffers from flailing when they realize they can't reach an outside pitch breaking three balls off the corner).

Watching Duran strike out last night on a slider that started at the ankles and burrowed underground is a sign modern hitting is so impossible that big leaguers have to just guess on every pitch.

 

Yeah, theyre so damn "skilled" that the pitchers can't pitch complete games. Like Seaver, Catfish, Ryan, Guidry, Jack Morris 10 innings in World Series. And guess what, NONE of these players mentioned went on the disabled list as much as today's players. Today's players may be more "skilled," but perhaps they are bigger pussies as well?

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Today they're more talented -- bigger, stronger, faster than ever -- including the strength to throw faster than ever. 

But skills are also associated with doing more nuanced baseball deeds, like learning and mastering new pitch grips, which has always been on the list.

Rare now are batters who advance baserunners without swinging from the heels... by bunting, hitting behind the runner, choking up with two strikes and cutting down swings to STAY ALIVE (maybe choking up would help stop some whiffers from flailing when they realize they can't reach an outside pitch breaking three balls off the corner).

Watching Duran strike out last night on a slider that started at the ankles and burrowed underground is a sign modern hitting is so impossible that big leaguers have to just guess on every pitch.

unless you're batting against Red Sox pitching. then, somehow, batters guess the correct pitch nearly every single (and double, and triple and home run) time.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

22 minutes ago, king koji said:

 

Yeah, theyre so damn "skilled" that the pitchers can't pitch complete games. Like Seaver, Catfish, Ryan, Guidry, Jack Morris 10 innings in World Series. And guess what, NONE of these players mentioned went on the disabled list as much as today's players. Today's players may be more "skilled," but perhaps they are bigger pussies as well?

There is little doubt the skill of today's pitchers, and the hitters who have adjusted to these better pitches, is higher than it was in the 60's.  But today pitchers train for 100 pitches, they are not expecting to ever go 10 innings unless it's the World Series.  But that does not mean they are pussies.  As for the IR perhaps teams take injuries more seriously today rather than "throw some dirt on it"? That's certainly the case with head injuries.  

 

With that said I've noticed for years how much more fragile baseball players are then other athletes.  Seems like with every collision there is a guy hurt, some come out of the game.  Football players play in so much more pain, they must laugh at baseball players.  

[notin]

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

They are already 4 games out! You can't win the division in March / April, but you can lose it. The Astros series was brutal to watch!

You really can’t even lose it in March…

[notin]

1 hour ago, king koji said:

 

Yeah, theyre so damn "skilled" that the pitchers can't pitch complete games. Like Seaver, Catfish, Ryan, Guidry, Jack Morris 10 innings in World Series. And guess what, NONE of these players mentioned went on the disabled list as much as today's players. Today's players may be more "skilled," but perhaps they are bigger pussies as well?

Shame on Connelly Early for not being like 5 guys that played across a 30 year stretch !

 

You do realize that 1965 (Hunter’s debut) to 1994 (Morris’ last year), a couple thousand pitchers spent time on the IL/DL.  This isn’t disproven by naming 5 guys that didn’t…

[mvp 78]

Early has more MLB IP at his age than Guidry did. Catfish stopped being able to pitch at age 30 for some reason. In Morris's first full MLB season (28 G, age 23), he only threw 106 IP. 

[mvp 78]

Ryan's IP by age:

21 - 134

22 - 89

23 - 131

24 - 152

Yeah, have Early only throw 150 this year. Seems fine! 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

31 minutes ago, king koji said:

 

Yeah, theyre so damn "skilled" that the pitchers can't pitch complete games. Like Seaver, Catfish, Ryan, Guidry, Jack Morris 10 innings in World Series. And guess what, NONE of these players mentioned went on the disabled list as much as today's players. Today's players may be more "skilled," but perhaps they are bigger pussies as well?

The point is modern ballplayers may be superior athletes compared to old pros from bygone days, but they are not more skilled at all baseball skills.

Of course, modern "instructors" might call some of those skills obsolete; the kind who tell a Hall of Famer like Jim Rice not to talk hitting with a prospect.

As for batters who'd rather constantly strikeout by two feet rather than cut down their swings to touch the ball, try to get on base. and move runners so maybe their teams can score more runs? 

I'm not telling them to get off my lawns, but they can stay off my screens.

[notin]

47 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The point is modern ballplayers may be superior athletes compared to old pros from bygone days, but they are not more skilled at all baseball skills.

Of course, modern "instructors" might call some of those skills obsolete; the kind who tell a Hall of Famer like Jim Rice not to talk hitting with a prospect.

As for batters who'd rather constantly strikeout by two feet rather than cut down their swings to touch the ball, try to get on base. and move runners so maybe their teams can score more runs? 

I'm not telling them to get off my lawns, but they can stay off my screens.

Are those skills obsolete or just much more difficult?

Bunting isn’t the analytic taboo many think, just sac bunting is, and even then not always.  The big problem with bunting is too many think it’s easy and fouling off a bunt is “poor fundamentals.”  But much like Calculus 2, bunting MLB pitching is hard.

As for choking up and going the other way, maybe that stuff was just a lot easier when you faced more guys throwing 85-90mph as opposed to now when everyone throws 95 mph..

[notin]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Early has more MLB IP at his age than Guidry did. Catfish stopped being able to pitch at age 30 for some reason. In Morris's first full MLB season (28 G, age 23), he only threw 106 IP. 

But by the time he was Early’s age, Mark “The Bird” Fidrych had over 350 IP.  

Also by the time he was Early’s age, the Bird’s career was effectively over…

[king koji]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The point is modern ballplayers may be superior athletes compared to old pros from bygone days, but they are not more skilled at all baseball skills.

Of course, modern "instructors" might call some of those skills obsolete; the kind who tell a Hall of Famer like Jim Rice not to talk hitting with a prospect.

As for batters who'd rather constantly strikeout by two feet rather than cut down their swings to touch the ball, try to get on base. and move runners so maybe their teams can score more runs? 

I'm not telling them to get off my lawns, but they can stay off my screens.

No, DONT give in to Modern Douchery. Get OFF my f***in lawn, and STAY off it!

[king koji]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Ryan's IP by age:

21 - 134

22 - 89

23 - 131

24 - 152

Yeah, have Early only throw 150 this year. Seems fine! 

Great. Now do Seaver/Clemens.

[king koji]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Early has more MLB IP at his age than Guidry did. Catfish stopped being able to pitch at age 30 for some reason. In Morris's first full MLB season (28 G, age 23), he only threw 106 IP. 

You should know 78, pitch count wasnt a THING until Pedro Game 7, '03. Early should have stayed in until he FALTERED. Now we have a 5-game losing streak BECAUSE of it.

[moonslav59]

7 hours ago, king koji said:

He can at least get close enough that you go straight to Chapman, if not Whitlock. I'm 60 years old, I'm used to starters going close to the full nine or at least trying to. This s*** really sucks. Anyone who says it's better doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

So, every manager, GM, scout and probably everyone in every baseball role doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

[notin]

21 minutes ago, king koji said:

Great. Now do Seaver/Clemens.

And then do Britt Burns and Kerry Wood and Ben Sheets and Josh Johnson…

[king koji]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, every manager, GM, scout and probably everyone in every baseball role doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Do YOU enjoy this brand of Baseball more than what you watched in 70's/80's, "Old-Timey" member???

[king koji]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

And then do Britt Burns and Kerry Wood and Ben Sheets and Josh Johnson…

Not til you do Don Sutton, Steve Carlton and Frank Tanana. Today's Baseball is Pussy.

[notin]

31 minutes ago, king koji said:

You should know 78, pitch count wasnt a THING until Pedro Game 7, '03. Early should have stayed in until he FALTERED. Now we have a 5-game losing streak BECAUSE of it.

This is not even remotely true.

Teams started tracking pitch counts against arm injuries as early as the late 1980s.  By the mid-1990’s, every team was tracking pitch counts to preserve the arms of their SPs and countering the lower IP totals with specialized bullpens.  It was as far back as 1996 when the Yankees used Mariano Rivera and John Wetteland to reduce the game to 7 innings for opposing batters.  And the 2001 Mariners had a monster bullpen that carried them to 115 wins.

Early on, some pitchers were vocal about pitch count limits.   Former White Sox ace Jack McDowell was very vocal about having his outings cut short by pitch counts, apparently preferring to have his entire career cut short instead…

[notin]

4 minutes ago, king koji said:

Not til you do Don Sutton, Steve Carlton and Frank Tanana. Today's Baseball is Pussy.

Frank Tanana? A hard-throwing pitcher who had to reinvent himself as a junk baller because he threw too hard too often?  Do you realize Tanana is a better argument against your position as opposed to for it?

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, king koji said:

 

Do YOU enjoy this brand of Baseball more than what you watched in 70's/80's, "Old-Timey" member???

No. I preferred the games of the early to mid 70's, but like everything else in life, things change.

It is what it is. I accept it and still think baseball is the best game ever invented.

Change is ineviditable.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Go Koji. Sox fans deserve to bitch after another crap opening weak. 

Looie Tiant says, "El beisbol - DAmelo!" 

(sorry Tiante, I couldn't make an upside down exclamation point)

John Lackey says, "Get off my mound!"

Dark Knight says... "bad night..."

[king koji]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

No. I preferred the games of the early to mid 70's, but like everything else in life, things change.

It is what it is. I accept it and still think baseball is the best game ever invented.

Change is ineviditable.

 

OF COURSE you enjoyed the games of the 70's better, wanna know why??? Cause it WAS better!!!! So was the 80's and 90's, and even 2000's when Schilling and Papi and Foulke and Pedroia and Damon were playing. And not swiveling their hips on second base after hitting a double like the jerkoffs of today.

[moonslav59]

Just now, king koji said:

OF COURSE you enjoyed the games of the 70's better, wanna know why??? Cause it WAS better!!!! So was the 80's and 90's, and even 2000's when Schilling and Papi and Foulke and Pedroia and Damon were playing. And not swiveling their hips on second base after hitting a double like the jerkoffs of today.

2018 was really fun, too.

Yes, I liked the game more back then, but I was also an impressionable teen.

I don't sit around wishing the game changes back to the way it was. I love the game as it is and baseball will always be my favorite sport.

Now, ask me how much I like the way the NBA has changed. LMAO!

[notin]

7 minutes ago, king koji said:

OF COURSE you enjoyed the games of the 70's better, wanna know why???  

Because my dad was still alive and we used to watch games together…

[king koji]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

2018 was really fun, too.

Yes, I liked the game more back then, but I was also an impressionable teen.

I don't sit around wishing the game changes back to the way it was. I love the game as it is and baseball will always be my favorite sport.

Now, ask me how much I like the way the NBA has changed. LMAO!

NBA is such a shame. 3-point line COMPLETELY RUINED the sport. These kids will never know how great 80's Basketball was when teams more or less ignored the 3-,point line. Half-court Basketball and mid-range, 2-point shots were a thing of beauty. Hockey completely sucks now too. Football has remained the closest to its peak, IMHO.