Bregman to sign 5 yr 175 million deal with the Cubs

[Kimmi]

26 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That was Bloom. He's not here anymore. 

With the exception of the Dombrowski era, the Red Sox have always been rather rigid, following their models very closely, when it comes to spending on free agents, .  Even the great Theo used this philosophy.  They will budge under the right circumstances.

Breslow probably won't be handing out any 10 year contracts any time soon, but I'm thinking that his offer to Bregman might have already been beyond what his models said.

[moonslav59]

Some rigidity has changed since the Devers extension. Many said they only extended him because of the backlash after losing Betts and Bogey. True or not, that should not matter. We did it, and that marked a change.

The Devers "Dump" as I call it, and it was more than just a salary dump- I know that- kinda undid that, but they did sign a player to $313M/10, when the previous record was $217M/7 (for Price, who we also dumped... hmmm...)

Another seemingly rigid undoing cam with long extensions given to pre-arb young players, so maybe we would not see so many stars bolting to free agency in their prime year. To me, this is a huge change in philosophy that has brightened our future and long term future.

That brightness does not shine away some of our dark philosophies and choices made, and I'm not so sure some of our choices have been as bad as they seem to be everytime a FA "of interest" is grossly overpaid by some other team. We need only look at our largest contracts given out to see how many have been clear success stories.

I hate seeing us lose Bregman. I think he made a big and positive difference to the team. He helped other players get better and improve their approaches to the game. In some ways, that's priceless. I get it. We have a big hole to fill, and we still haven't filled the Devers canyon.

I think Contreras fills the loss of Bregman's bat, but we still need a 3Bman and the power bat we lost with Devers. I realize winning teams can be constructed in various way, but our ring seasons have pretty much followed two major events:

1. Our top SP'ers stayed relatively healthy, and we had two aces or near ace types.

2004: Pedro & Schilling

2007: Beckett & Schilling

2013: Lester & Lackey

2018: Sale & Price (+ Porcello coming off a Cy Young win)

2. We had 2 big power bats or several 25+ HR types.

2004: Manny 43/ Papi 41 (4 others w 17+)

2007: Papi 35/ Manny 20 + Lowell 21

2013: Papi 30/ Napoli 23 + Middy 17 in 94 gms (Okay, this is pushing it)

2018: JD 43/Betts 32 (Bogey 23 + Devers 21)

Looking at 2016, we might have 1 ace and 1 near ace, but we have no power bat projected to hit 30+ HRs. We may end up with nobody at 25+.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

With the exception of the Dombrowski era, the Red Sox have always been rather rigid, following their models very closely, when it comes to spending on free agents, .  Even the great Theo used this philosophy.  They will budge under the right circumstances.

Breslow probably won't be handing out any 10 year contracts any time soon, but I'm thinking that his offer to Bregman might have already been beyond what his models said.

The Price and JD signings were huge, and both did well to very well as long as DD was with BOS. No doubt there was a shift. We went from letting Lester bolt, because he was over 30, but then paid Price way more than anyone else to that date. He made more than Pablo + HRam in total dollars. 

The thing is, that was about it. We seem to remember that he spent money, left and right on free agents. He really did not. I know Nate counts as a FA signing, although I view it as an extension, but even counting it as a FA signing during his last year w BOS, Nate was just the 11th highest paid FA in Sox history. Guess who the next ranked one is? Mitch Moreland at #34 at just $13M/2 in 2018! (These FA signings don't count Dice-K, Rusney or Moncada.)

Price was and still is #1 in total dollars given. JD was 6th. DD's main reason for success, IMO, was his trade success, and some of his additions were high-salaried. The guy rarely missed on his trades, and when he did, they were minor misses like Thornburg and some other RP'er I forgot.

His budgets got high due in large part to players from trades and rising arb costs.

[JoeBrady]

22 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

the Red Sox have always been rather rigid,

Just irt the rigidity issue, and picking lanes, etc., Breslow has been here two years.  Just because he traded for and extended Crochet doesn't mean he is big-market poker player, and nor does the fact that he either didn't believe Bregman or didn't care to match the Cubs, doesn't make him cheap.  You need years to attach a pattern to people.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

That was Bloom. He's not here anymore. 

Some felt that wasn't really Bloom's doing, anyway.

[Randy Red Sox]

21 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Funny.

tell me it's not true. Sox are clearly trying to wait out the market and sign/trade the best 1-2 yr deal they can get.

[Randy Red Sox]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I never got the impression they were sure to land Bregman.

they did seem to be in on him the most though. Typical smokescreen

[notin]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

That was Bloom. He's not here anymore. 

I’m 99% certain Sox fans lump all the GMs/CBOs into two categories - Dombrowski and Not Dombrowski.

 

Turns out Bloom and Breslow fall into the same category…

[moonslav59]

55 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

tell me it's not true. Sox are clearly trying to wait out the market and sign/trade the best 1-2 yr deal they can get.

I've been talking Polanco and Suarez all winter long.

[moonslav59]

52 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

they did seem to be in on him the most though. Typical smokescreen

Exactly- typical and no different than many others.

[mvp 78]

11 hours ago, notin said:

I’m 99% certain Sox fans lump all the GMs/CBOs into two categories - Dombrowski and Not Dombrowski.

 

Turns out Bloom and Breslow fall into the same category…

Theo and Ben were given a lot of wiggle room to spend. I think there was just a change in mindset after 2019.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Theo and Ben were given a lot of wiggle room to spend. I think there was just a change in mindset after 2019.

I agree it’s 2019 on that gets talked about the most on here, and what has followed DD, which was Brez, and Bloom. Theo had his share of success too when he, and LL ran the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Theo and Ben were given a lot of wiggle room to spend. I think there was just a change in mindset after 2019.

To me, the mindset changed before 2019. They clearly chose to extend Sale & Nate, but were looking to trade Betts mid season '19.

Not only did they let Kimbrel & Kelly walk, they did nothing to replace them, even with cheap arms. (They did bring back Pearce, too.)

It all started before DD left, and IMO, that was a part of why he left.

This may not fit the narrative that DD was able to convince JH to spend, and that he alone could have kept the ball rolling, but there is ample evidence the change began after we won in 2018, not after 2019.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

To me, the mindset changed before 2019. They clearly chose to extend Sale & Nate, but were looking to trade Betts mid season '19.

Not only did they let Kimbrel & Kelly walk, they did nothing to replace them, even with cheap arms. (They did bring back Pearce, too.)

It all started before DD left, and IMO, that was a part of why he left.

This may not fit the narrative that DD was able to convince JH to spend, and that he alone could have kept the ball rolling, but there is ample evidence the change began after we won in 2018, not after 2019.

I don't think DD would have been able to keep the train going. He was acting like a one man band at times and didn't have a lot of friends in he FO per Speier reports. He wasn't meant to last very long here. They got the one WS out of DD and were ready to move on once there was the WS hangover. 

[drewski6]

12 hours ago, notin said:

I’m 99% certain Sox fans lump all the GMs/CBOs into two categories - Dombrowski and Not Dombrowski.

 

Turns out Bloom and Breslow fall into the same category…

Close: DD and not DD

Team DD: Dave Dombrowski, Dan Duquette, Dunkin Donuts, Dungeons and Dragons, Designated Drivers
Team not DD: Everything and anything that doesnt have "DD" initials

[drewski6]

52 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't think DD would have been able to keep the train going. He was acting like a one man band at times and didn't have a lot of friends in he FO per Speier reports. He wasn't meant to last very long here. They got the one WS out of DD and were ready to move on once there was the WS hangover. 

I agree, DD was on a runaway bullet train heading for a cliff, and only the power of friendship could have saved him.  He had tried to make friends, but the sincerity of those efforts were labeled a sham.

He did , have one trick up his sleeve, however, and when the train was about to go over the cliff he said "Mariners, Mariners, Mariners"

Harmony reluctantly saved him per Harmonys contract with the spirit of pojections, which forces him to appear whenever such sacred word is uttered.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't think DD would have been able to keep the train going. He was acting like a one man band at times and didn't have a lot of friends in he FO per Speier reports. He wasn't meant to last very long here. They got the one WS out of DD and were ready to move on once there was the WS hangover. 

That's exactly how I see it and felt the same way at the time. I seriously doubt DD would have wanted to be here after being forced to trade Betts and watch big contract after contract come off the ledger with no to little money going back into the winter spending budgets.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I agree, DD was on a runaway bullet train heading for a cliff, and only the power of friendship could have saved him.  He had tried to make friends, but the sincerity of those efforts were labeled a sham.

He did , have one trick up his sleeve, however, and when the train was about to go over the cliff he said "Mariners, Mariners, Mariners"

Harmony reluctantly saved him per Harmonys contract with the spirit of pojections, which forces him to appear whenever such sacred word is uttered.

You do know you used the banned "C" word, right?

[mvp 78]

47 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That's exactly how I see it and felt the same way at the time. I seriously doubt DD would have wanted to be here after being forced to trade Betts and watch big contract after contract come off the ledger with no to little money going back into the winter spending budgets.

If JH was on board and DD had the buy in, things could have kept going. That just wasn't the case. 

[mvp 78]

47 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You do know you used the banned "C" word, right?

Carl Everett? 

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If JH was on board and DD had the buy in, things could have kept going. That just wasn't the case. 

Exactly. JH was NOT on board with continued high spending. If DD could not convince JH to spend for Kelly's return, let alone Kimbrel's, it was over and done with after 2018's season was over.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Carl Everett? 

No, MooCCCCeee Betts.

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

They got the one WS out of DD and were ready to move on once there was the WS hangover. 

Just my guess, but I think JH wanted B2B WSC, and was willing to spend for that privilege.  Once that was gone, he thought we were an 84-win, #1 payroll, and #30 farm team.  Both DD and Bloom made perfect sense to me.

[notin]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Theo and Ben were given a lot of wiggle room to spend. I think there was just a change in mindset after 2019.

Cherington  didn’t have the same kind of free rein to spend.  He had to juggle salaries just to get Marco Scutaro on the roster at one point…

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Cherington  didn’t have the same kind of free rein to spend.  He had to juggle salaries just to get Marco Scutaro on the roster at one point…

He brought in a bunch of guys in 2013. He also signed Pablo and Hanley stupidly. 

[notin]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He brought in a bunch of guys in 2013. He also signed Pablo and Hanley stupidly. 

While he brought in a lot for 2013, it was on the heels of unloading a lot in 2012.  And even then, not one of those contracts was longer than 3 years…

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He brought in a bunch of guys in 2013. He also signed Pablo and Hanley stupidly. 

The 2013 spending spree barely replaced the money "saved" with the Dodger salary dump trade the year before.

Ben's early spending seemed limited. We all wished he'd have signed Scherzer not Pablito and HRam, but instead we got that ugly pair and then spent on Price the next year. That was DD's big splurge moment. He did not really spend much on FAs between Price and JD, but those two were biggies.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

He brought in a bunch of guys in 2013. He also signed Pablo and Hanley stupidly. 

I had no use for Cherry and still not sure how he has a job.

[mvp 78]

48 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The 2013 spending spree barely replaced the money "saved" with the Dodger salary dump trade the year before.

Ben's early spending seemed limited. We all wished he'd have signed Scherzer not Pablito and HRam, but instead we got that ugly pair and then spent on Price the next year. That was DD's big splurge moment. He did not really spend much on FAs between Price and JD, but those two were biggies.

Huh? He replaced all the salary and then bumped it up another 15% in 2 years. 

[moonslav59]

49 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Huh? He replaced all the salary and then bumped it up another 15% in 2 years. 

The Dodger salary dump was in August 2012.