Red Sox acquire Wilson Contreras From Cardinals

[notin]

5 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

“Bregman only playing 75% of their games games”

how many teams had one player DH only 75% of the time?

Using your numbers, probably 0.

Boston had a guy do it 100% of the time until they traded him.  But do you think if not for injuries, Stanton, Alvarez, Ozuna, Schwarber, Ohtani (he does DH even when he pitches), Suzuki, and Diaz don’t DH that often?  
 

I’d add Santander as well but his .541 OPS should have been a factor even in the absence of a Springer injury…

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

You can look at the positions splits.  Guys get hurt but there’s a whole lot of 75% plus across every position.

with the Lone Caveat being DH

Catcher

[moonslav59]

The idea of Yoshida as the platoon DH seems like such a waste of a roster slot, although his career .650 OPS vs LHPs supports the idea.

To me, what further complicates the Masa on the 26 idea is Casas. With Contreras at 1B and much better on defense than Casas at 1B, Casas could, and should if healthy, be the FT DH for the Sox.

Career splits: v R/v L

.796/.814 Casas (He's better vs both and hits LHPs better than RHPs.)

.795/,650 Yoshida

.616/.872 Romy (could platoon with Mayer or DHam)

Note: Romy was .718/.978 in 2025. This could be an outlier season, but if not, he could be viewed as a FT'er or at worst a player that must start vs all LHPs.

Campbell may also be someone who profiles best as a DH. Time will tell on him. (.658/.675 in 2025.)

[Hugh2]

Add.  I never said Yoshida isn’t a good DH, and if I did I didn’t mean to. 
 

what I am saying, is it’s obvious the team doesn’t value him highly there AT ALL.

most other DHs do play some games in the field.  Yoshida doesn’t add any positional versatility, no value on the bases, his only skill is a good hit tool with no power.  And that’s great, but there’s a reason the Sox can’t find a trading partner.

 Don’t tell me he’s overpaid.  He’s owed $18 million for two years.  Effectively not a single team in baseball thinks he’s worth 4-5 WAR over the next two years. 
 

That’s not exactly a glowing report on having a full time DH.  

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Catcher

And catcher, excuse me

 

for obvious reasons catcher should be in there too.  But let’s make no mistake.  If catching didn’t wear down the body teams would roll catchers out there for 150+ games plus

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Catcher

Yes, 75% of 162 is 121.

Only two catchers started more than 119 games in 2025.

8 started more than 106 (65% of 162)

The mean was 97 or 60% of all games.

[notin]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

Add.  I never said Yoshida isn’t a good DH, and if I did I didn’t mean to. 
 

what I am saying, is it’s obvious the team doesn’t value him highly there AT ALL.

most other DHs do play some games in the field.  Yoshida doesn’t add any positional versatility, no value on the bases, his only skill is a good hit tool with no power.  And that’s great, but there’s a reason the Sox can’t find a trading partner.

 Don’t tell me he’s overpaid.  He’s owed $18 million for two years.  Effectively not a single team in baseball thinks he’s worth 4-5 WAR over the next two years. 
 

That’s not exactly a glowing report on having a full time DH.  

It’s not a glowing report on his contract.  I suspect Breslow agrees.,

[notin]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, 75% of 162 is 121.

Only two catchers started more than 119 games in 2025.

8 started more than 106 (65% of 162)

The mean was 97 or 60% of all games.

So by this thread, almost no teams have a full time catcher!

DH is like any other position. Most teams have a player (or a platoon) they plan to start until injuries or performance forces a change.  No team uses it as a rotation to rest their regulars…

[moonslav59]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Yes, 75% of 162 is 121.

Only two catchers started more than 119 games in 2025.

8 started more than 106 (65% of 162)

The mean was 97 or 60% of all games.

Position by position: players with 121 or more starts:

6 at DH (one was at 120. The mean was 80- by far the lowest)

8 in RF (mean 95)

9 at 3B (mean 102)

10 at 2B (mean 91, #16 was just 85!)

10 in LF (mean 97)

10 in CF (but 15 at 117+/ mean 117)

12 at 1B (mean 113)

20 at SS (23 had 102+. The mean was 130)

Highest means:

130 SS

117 CF

113 1B

102 3B

Note: 40 players started 120+ games at any OF position. The mean or 90 is 45, so the mean for OF was 114 games.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

So by this thread, almost no teams have a full time catcher!

DH is like any other position. Most teams have a player (or a platoon) they plan to start until injuries or performance forces a change.  No team uses it as a rotation to rest their regulars…

Positions like SS, Catcher and CF are too important on defense to use those guys as part of a DH rotation, so yes, no team uses the DH as a complete rotation for rest plan. I do think many teams use it to rotate 3-4 players who either have good L-R splits or are not needed for defense due to their lack of skills on D or because there is a better defender available.

I do think many teams go into a season with the plan for one guy to DH 130-140+ games a year. We may be arguing over what number constitutes a FT'er as the Catcher slot highlights that context. Is it over half the teams? I'm not sure. 

I do know plans change over the season, and the DH slot is often used as a catch-all for injured players to go to, if they can't play defense well enough. The Springer example is an example of that.

A signing or trade can also change the plan, as with the Sox moving from the Masa FT DH plan to a Devers FT DH plan, then to a mix plan, once Casas got hurt. They even kept Masas on the IL, because he could not play LF well enough, because Devers took his FT role.

[Hugh2]

23 minutes ago, notin said:

It’s not a glowing report on his contract.  I suspect Breslow agrees.,

Is $18 million a year for two years really that crazy? 

I get and agree it was a bad contract, but if he’s a good DH and teams value that, the Sox would have traded him by now..  he doesn’t have to do much to be worth $18 million for just two years.

if DHs were valued how you guys are arguing they would have moved him by now

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

So by this thread, almost no teams have a full time catcher!

As with DHs and other positions, even who we view as the FT catcher can change due to injury or performance.

We started 2025 with Wong as our "FT Catcher," but Narvaez quickly won the job, once Wong got hurt and struggled mightily at the plate.

[Hugh2]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Positions like SS, Catcher and CF are too important on defense to use those guys as part of a DH rotation, so yes, no team uses the DH as a complete rotation for rest plan. I do think many teams use it to rotate 3-4 players who either have good L-R splits or are not needed for defense due to their lack of skills on D or because there is a better defender available.

I do think many teams go into a season with the plan for one guy to DH 130-140+ games a year. We may be arguing over what number constitutes a FT'er as the Catcher slot highlights that context. Is it over half the teams? I'm not sure. 

I do know plans change over the season, and the DH slot is often used as a catch-all for injured players to go to, if they can't play defense well enough. The Springer example is an example of that.

A signing or trade can also change the plan, as with the Sox moving from the Masa FT DH plan to a Devers FT DH plan, then to a mix plan, once Casas got hurt. They even kept Masas on the IL, because he could not play LF well enough, because Devers took his FT role.

And yet there are SS/C/CF who DH and rotate in.  Not terribly common.  But I literally just looked at the positional split playing time for every team in baseball.  There are legit those guys rotating in

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Is $18 million a year for two years really that crazy? 

I get and agree it was a bad contract, but if he’s a good DH and teams value that, the Sox would have traded him by now..  he doesn’t have to do much to be worth $18 million for just two years.

if DHs were valued how you guys are arguing they would have moved him by now

Who is arguing they are highly valued?

I thought the talk was about calling them FT or not.

I doubt any team would sign the FA Masa to play LF, unless in an emergency or at best as the 4th or 5th OF'er.

They'd sign him to DH or platoon DH and be OF depth. IMO, he'd get between $3-6M x 2 years.

BTV has his value at -$26M, which is $10M less than the $36M he is owed. They pretty much say he's worth $5M x 2.

Should we trade him to save $5M x 2? 

It looks like we are $4-5M under the tax line. This trade would bring us to $9-10M under. That could allow us to sign a player $5M better. If the plan is to go $10M over the first line, it could be the difference between $15M or $20M AAV.

According to MLBTR, that the difference between these guys:

$26M Bregman or $25M F Valdez & Imai (pushing close to line 2)

or

$23M Ra Suarez

$21M Suarez x 3

vs

$16M Okamoto

$16M x 2 Giolito

$14M Bassitt x 2

$13M x 2 N martinez

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

And yet there are SS/C/CF who DH and rotate in.  Not terribly common.  But I literally just looked at the positional split playing time for every team in baseball.  There are legit those guys rotating in

I'm agreeing with you (and notin.)

Clearly teams use the DH to rotate players in at varying degrees.

Some as a way to rest a player but keep his bat in the line-up. Some to find the best bat match-up with a pitcher while trying to field the best defensive line-up. Some as mostly a platoon set-up. Some due to injuries. Some combining these ideas with others.

[Hugh2]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm agreeing with you (and notin.)

Clearly teams use the DH to rotate players in at varying degrees.

Some as a way to rest a player but keep his bat in the line-up. Some to find the best bat match-up with a pitcher while trying to field the best defensive line-up. Some as mostly a platoon set-up. Some due to injuries. Some combining these ideas with others.

Exactly I agree. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I think the Ohtani point went over your head.  He literally is a 6-8 war player before he even picks up a bat.  That should end that argument BUT he’s only DHing because he pitches.  If Ohtani only hit, he’d be playing in the field

And I think you refuse to acknowledge he doesn’t fit your statement about the trend being to rotate players into a DH role.

Whether or not Ihtani could field is irrelevant.  He doesn’t, except at pitcher.  He didn’t take over for a struggling Conforto in LF for example.  And no one on the Dodgers rotates into the DH slot even when Ohtani pitches. And that is because even when he pitches, he DHs.  MLB even changed the rules so that he is two players, just like in Yahoo fantasy baseball.  And he DHd 158 times last year.  I do hope that counts as full time.

Sorry, but your premise that teams use the role as a rotation to rest players most definitely does not apply to the Dodgers, more so than any other team…

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Who is arguing they are highly valued?

I thought the talk was about calling them FT or not.

I doubt any team would sign the FA Masa to play LF, unless in an emergency or at best as the 4th or 5th OF'er.

They'd sign him to DH or platoon DH and be OF depth. IMO, he'd get between $3-6M x 2 years.

BTV has his value at -$26M, which is $10M less than the $36M he is owed. They pretty much say he's worth $5M x 2.

Should we trade him to save $5M x 2? 

It looks like we are $4-5M under the tax line. This trade would bring us to $9-10M under. That could allow us to sign a player $5M better. If the plan is to go $10M over the first line, it could be the difference between $15M or $20M AAV.

According to MLBTR, that the difference between these guys:

$26M Bregman or $25M F Valdez & Imai (pushing close to line 2)

or

$23M Ra Suarez

$21M Suarez x 3

vs

$16M Okamoto

$16M x 2 Giolito

$14M Bassitt x 2

$13M x 2 N martinez

Yoshida is about a .8 .9 WAR guy when playing full time, but I suspect that if he didn't have the knock on him from playing defense he could be a 1-1.5 guy.  Lets split the difference for simplicity, add in inflation  and he's worth about 10 million a year. 

Hypothetically the Sox could get a team to easily take him if they ate half his contract.  I believe they would do that if someone out there liked him enough.  If Yoshida was a position player, and a cheap team was in desperate need of a stop gap 3B/1B/CF/RF etc etc etc.  I think he moves for half his contract.  

Maybe he's not moving because the Sox view him as their starting 2026 DH. 

[Hugh2]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

And I think you refuse to acknowledge he doesn’t fit your statement about the trend being to rotate players into a DH role.

Whether or not Ihtani could field is irrelevant.  He doesn’t, except at pitcher.  He didn’t take over for a struggling Conforto in LF for example.  And no one on the Dodgers rotates into the DH slot even when Ohtani pitches. And that is because even when he pitches, he DHs.  MLB even changed the rules so that he is two players, just like in Yahoo fantasy baseball.  And he DHd 158 times last year.  I do hope that counts as full time.

Sorry, but your premise that teams use the role as a rotation to rest players most definitely does not apply to the Dodgers, more so than any other team…

DUDE......it's freaking Ohtani.  There's literally never been a player like him in the game of baseball EVER.  He's already a HOF and a legend.  I don't think you're making the point you think your're making by saying "ah ahhhhh Ohtani is a DH TOO!!!!!"

No.....he's a pitcher who DH's when he's not pitching.  Literally not up for comparision. 

And dude, I don't care about the "rule change" this isn't a court of law where a corporation is a person.  You, me, Moon, my Mom, the mailman....every person on earth understands Ohtani is one singular person. 

You can't be seriously taken in this conversation by including Ohtani.  And it's irrelavent because even if you DID (I included him in my count) there are way way way way less teams that have a DH who plays 50% of the time of more.  WHere is at every other position not catcher for obvious reason that is verifiably not the case. 

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Maybe he's not moving because the Sox view him as their starting 2026 DH. 

Oh I'm sure THAT is what it is!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Campbell may also be someone who profiles best as a DH. Time will tell on him. (.658/.675 in 2025.)

Dang -- I forgot KC on the outfield depth chart.

His one elite skill was impersonating Barry Bonds at three levels in the minors... for one year (then the genie smashed the bottle).

[Hugh2]

Let me clarify, Ohtani is absolutely 100% a full time DH. 

He's just irrelavent to this conversation because he is Ohtani.  Ohtani is not evidence for or against how other teams conventionally employ a DH, because Ohtani is a once in a generation never seen before UNCONVENTIONAL player.  Who we know for a fact is dh'ing because he is in fact also pitching and the team wants to reduce likelihood he gets hurt. 

We literally have a sample size of 0 to go on here with this. Ohtani is a true blue unicorn.  

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Oh I'm sure THAT is what it is!

I think it’s more that the Red SOX can’t move Yoshida then it is they want to keep him.

[mvp 78]

I guess Masa will be a 162 guy in '26 then. It's not like Cora has ever benched him before for long stretches for seemingly no reason! 

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I guess Masa will be a 162 guy in '26 then. It's not like Cora has ever benched him before for long stretches for seemingly no reason! 

Well last year they extended his rehab because even though he could hit he couldn't play the field yet......and he's an outfielder they said. 

[JoeBrady]

30 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Exactly.  Saying teams like to rotate the DH position isn't analogous with DH's don't exist anymore.  Of course they do, one doesn't disprove the other I suppose was my point. 

I looked at it, and tried to apply my massive accounting skills to the issue, but it all seems pretty random.  Some have great hitting, some have no one.  Some teams have a higher payroll to support a dedicated DH.  Some teams have a good-hitting catcher they want in the lineup 150 games.

[notin]

23 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I guess Masa will be a 162 guy in '26 then. It's not like Cora has ever benched him before for long stretches for seemingly no reason! 

And Cora always lets LHH face LHP…

[notin]

19 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Well last year they extended his rehab because even though he could hit he couldn't play the field yet......and he's an outfielder they said. 

He would likely not play the OF much, but bear in mind Cora used Rob Refsnyder out there a lot, and the only person who think he’s a good outfielder is maybe Mrs. Refsnyder.

Maybe.

And while other full time DHs like Alvarez do get out on to the field once every 10 games or so, a lot of them are also very poor fielders like Yoshida.  Ever seen Kyle Schwarber in the OF?  That’s why he plays DH…

[Old Red]

21 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Well last year they extended his rehab because even though he could hit he couldn't play the field yet......and he's an outfielder they said. 

They sent him off in exile with the ruse he had to rehab his shoulder, because Raffy had his spot at DH. Why they wouldn’t let him hit at Portland, or Woo has never been explained as far as I know. He was well enough to swing a bat in ST.

[Hugh2]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

He would likely not play the OF much, but bear in mind Cora used Rob Refsnyder out there a lot, and the only person who think he’s a good outfielder is maybe Mrs. Refsnyder.

Maybe.

And while other full time DHs like Alvarez do get out on to the field once every 10 games or so, a lot of them are also very poor fielders like Yoshida.  Ever seen Kyle Schwarber in the OF?  That’s why he plays DH…

I certainly won't say they're all good fielders.