The 2025 postseason, post-Red Sox

[mvp 78]

32 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Poor Harmony.  I do feel his pain.  The Sox have done the same to their fans more than twice.  

100%. We've been there. 

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

I have to defer to you on the level of management hatred, but unless you’re Bob Kraft during the Patriots run or Steinbrenner in the late 1990’s, isnt every front office hated by someone?  I remember seeing posts about how Epstein ruined the Red Sox DURING THE 2007 POSTSEASON RUN!

There's always going to be those psychos that complain when things are good and then shout from the rooftops how everything is amazing when Carl Crawford is signed. 

[Kimmi]

18 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

my thoughts exactly! great minds and all that.

Last night's game was a really good game.  I feel bad for the Mariners, but unfortunately, only one team can win.  I just hope the Blue Jays go on to beat the Dodgers.

[Kimmi]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Springer is the man.

What a moment for him last night, bruised knee and all.  That place exploded.  You gotta love it, although had that been against the Red Sox, I wouldn't be loving it so much.

[Kimmi]

8 hours ago, jad said:

Under McCourt, the Dodgers were MISERABLE and if you bothered to go (not many people did), you would see fans leaving and arriving at the same time (around the 5th inning).  It was a crappy product.  Then they spent money and got players like Betts (remember him?) and Ohtani, and now the place is packed, and they're selling gear all over the world.  You prefer the Rays business model?

Yes, I prefer the Rays team-building philosophy over just throwing the most money at every superstar player there is.  If the team is winning, fans will come (except for Rays fans for some reason.)  The Red Sox started winning mid season, and Red Sox fans were back at Fenway in full force.

You can build a perennial contender without all those monster contracts.  If it were up to me, I'd go almost all home grown, and fill in the holes with solid, 2nd tier players.

[Kimmi]

Once upon a time, the Yankees used to get every free agent that they wanted (except for Cliff Lee), because they would just outbid everyone like drunken sailors.  I can't be the only one who remembers how much Red Sox fans hated that and criticized the Yankees for "buying" their championships.  We all thought Yankees fans were spoiled and entitled.

I hate to say it, but somewhere along the line we, the awesome Red Sox fans that we are, became spoiled and entitled.  Henry is spending plenty of money.

[Kimmi]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

JH could spend the same on his ballclub. He CHOOSES not to. 

Good choice, IMO.

[drewski6]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Poor Harmony.  I do feel his pain.  The Sox have done the same to their fans more than twice.  

I happened to be watching MNF at the moment the go-ahead Toronto HR was hit.  The MNF games was in seattle and you just hear this collective groan/sigh.  I def felt for em. Sorry Harmony , but I hope you got good enjoyment out of the season!

I always fall back to - dont forget the point is fun. And if you are having fun, if the team is bringing you joy, thats most important.

So to me, I really enjoyed the three game series with the yankees that we had.  ANd that made the entire a success because the 2025 red sox gave us a very fun playoff series. I watched the first game with my friend joey, and we were high fiving and having beers, and all that. I watched the second game at home, but I was on the edge of my seat all game. A different friend came over. I watched game 3 at a bar with 2 uncles.  That game was the weakest of the three, but it gave my uncle who is the biggest sox fan i know a reason to come in from nj and watch the game with his favorite nephew :)

[drewski6]

7 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Once upon a time, the Yankees used to get every free agent that they wanted (except for Cliff Lee), because they would just outbid everyone like drunken sailors.  I can't be the only one who remembers how much Red Sox fans hated that and criticized the Yankees for "buying" their championships.  We all thought Yankees fans were spoiled and entitled.

I hate to say it, but somewhere along the line we, the awesome Red Sox fans that we are, became spoiled and entitled.  Henry is spending plenty of money.

1 playoff win in how many years now?

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Good choice, IMO.

TOR and LAD both spent boatloads on their team this season. Seems to have worked out. The Rays model is below .500 the past two seasons and just found a new owner which will cause a bunch of FO guys to leave this offseason. Sinking ship.

[Kimmi]

24 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

1 playoff win in how many years now?

I understand the frustration, Drew.  I really do.  I just can't get on board with that kind of spending.  I don't think it's necessary.

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

TOR and LAD both spent boatloads on their team this season. Seems to have worked out. The Rays model is below .500 the past two seasons and just found a new owner which will cause a bunch of FO guys to leave this offseason. Sinking ship.

the small market model is a sinking ship, and the blame should be on the cheapskates not the LAD or TOR or NYY investing in trying to win.

I always root big market over small market.  If a team with a middling payroll wins one ws then people will just go right back to it and ignore that the other 9 came from spenders.

 

[drewski6]

Just now, Kimmi said:

I understand the frustration, Drew.  I really do.  I just can't get on board with that kind of spending.  I don't think it's necessary.

necessary for what?

[Kimmi]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

TOR and LAD both spent boatloads on their team this season. Seems to have worked out. The Rays model is below .500 the past two seasons and just found a new owner which will cause a bunch of FO guys to leave this offseason. Sinking ship.

There are also teams that spent boatloads this season and failed to make the playoffs.  There are teams who didn't spend boatloads and did make the playoffs.  

AND, the playoffs are a crapshoot. 

[Kimmi]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

necessary for what?

To build a sustainable contender or to win a WS.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

the small market model is a sinking ship, and the blame should be on the cheapskates not the LAD or TOR or NYY investing in trying to win.

I always root big market over small market.  If a team with a middling payroll wins one ws then people will just go right back to it and ignore that the other 9 came from spenders.

 

Imagine a league with 30 owners like the Dodgers.

I find it hard to get a clear idea what it would be like.

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I always root big market over small market.  If a team with a middling payroll wins one ws then people will just go right back to it and ignore that the other 9 came from spenders.

 

All other things being equal, I will root for the small market team.  That said, I'm not condoning being cheapskates.  There's a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.

[drewski6]

I honestly dont care if we win or lose. But rolling over the same mediocre roster every year is booooorrrrriiiinngggg and intellectually lazy.

I care that they try. Try to give me an entertaining product.  And rolling forward dudes just because they are here aint it.

And wanting home-grown and cheap is just propoganda.

Its a puzzle.  And just promoting internally isnt trying to solve it.

This team does not yet deserve to be forgiven for going with verdugo year after year.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

To build a sustainable contender or to win a WS.

Seems like LAD has been sustainable to me. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, Kimmi said:

All other things being equal, I will root for the small market team.  That said, I'm not condoning being cheapskates.  There's a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.

The middle ground to me is go over the CBT for 2 years and reset the 3rd. 

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

To build a sustainable contender or to win a WS.

A bunch of cheapskate billionaires have manipulated you into believing that spending doesnt really help your chances all that much and I hope the dodgers keep winning until you realize youve been had. For your own sake.

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The middle ground to me is go over the CBT for 2 years and reset the 3rd. 

Are we even sure the dodgers and the mets and the yankees lost significant money last year? Because if they are close to breaking even, they are the middle ground.

[Kimmi]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Seems like LAD has been sustainable to me. 

Sure, but you don't have to spend like LAD to be sustainable.

[Kimmi]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

A bunch of cheapskate billionaires have manipulated you into believing that spending doesnt really help your chances all that much and I hope the dodgers keep winning until you realize youve been had. For your own sake.

OK

[drewski6]

Verdugo was TRASH. And every year half my friends were like "he's solid" the same dudes who when the red sox make a trade they gasp "oh no, what did we give up?" the same dudes who think we are going to win the ws every year because they overrate all our own guys. The dudes who told me that Turner wouldnt opt out, that james paxton and rich hill were good acquistions, that you dont need to buy at the deadline, that "we'll be alright". That the celtics should have kept robert williams.  That the patriots should have kept Mac jones.

The dudes saying avoid free agents.  You got what you wanted. It was called the bloom years.



 

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Sure, but you don't have to spend like LAD to be sustainable.

when lad is spending like lad that kind of throws a wrench into your plans on being able to compete without matching. Why go in with such a disadvantage? Do you get a piece of the profit share?

[harmony]

51 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I happened to be watching MNF at the moment the go-ahead Toronto HR was hit.  The MNF games was in seattle and you just hear this collective groan/sigh.  I def felt for em. Sorry Harmony , but I hope you got good enjoyment out of the season!

I always fall back to - dont forget the point is fun. And if you are having fun, if the team is bringing you joy, thats most important.

Mariner wins bring me joy. Mariners losses don't bring me suffering; Mariner losses merely bring me an absence of joy.

It was a fun season.

Sixty years ago I was a Minnesota Twins fan who turned 10 years old during the 1965 World Series when the Dodgers needed seven games to topple my Twins. In my 30s I spent nearly six seasons living within walking distance of Dodger Stadium. I attended many games but could never embrace the Dodgers.

I'll be pulling for The Blue of the East over The Blue of the West.

[moonslav59]

I think the Sox have done a pretty good job building up a solid foundation of young players, many of whom are pre-arb or locked up for many years at reasonable rates. 

They pulled the wool over on their fans with the "we will be competitive this year" sham, but all the while they were methodically doing some things right. 

The next step involves making strategic investments at 3, maybe 4 of our weakest areas, and this time not with wings and prayers, but with actual solid projectable talent- proven and for real. Of course, nothing is for certain, but clearly guys like Buehler, Sandoval, Giolito, Kluber, Wacha, Hill, Richards and Perez were shots in the dark. That has to end.

The trade for Crochet and subsequent extension, along with locking up 4 kids over the past 2 winters, bodes well for the new direction this team has taken. However, it's not enough. We need to go bold. We may not have to emulate the Mets & Dodgers, but we have to do better. No more one-and-dones. No more returning from injury but was great 1-3 years ago guys. We gotta give to get.

Luckily, this is a good year for power bats who play 1B or 3B, well at least they try to. Luckily, we have teams very interested in Duran or Abreu, and we have a guy like Anthony that won't be a step down when replacing the guy we trade.

It's not rocket science. It's not "we gotta spend like the Dodger." It's not "let's sign 5 mid level guys," either. To me, it's very simple and doable. We may even be able to pull it off and still reset the tax line for 2027.

1 Bold trade for a #2 SP, Power RHB at 3B or 1B.

1 Bold signing (Corner infielder or #2 SP)

1 semi-major signing like Hoskins, Naylor, Merrill Kelly, Gleyber Torres or maybe not so "semi" E Suarez, depending on just how bold the first two guys ended up being.

3 Major additions. (Maybe add Matz and some MiLB depth.)

We can maybe be creative and dump some salary in order to raise the quality of FA signings, but just trading Duran & Campbell saves us over $15M AAV and would bring back one of the 3 needed players- perhaps at less AAV. Try to dump some of Hicks & Yoshida's salaries, even if we have to give something with them and or pay down a sizeable chunk of their deals. Just add $5-15M AAV to the winter budget and we can maximize the 2 signings we can and SHOULD make.

Just do it!

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, harmony said:

Mariner wins bring me joy. Mariners losses don't bring me suffering; Mariner losses merely bring me an absence of joy.

It was a fun season.

Sixty years ago I was a Minnesota Twins fan who turned 10 years old during the 1965 World Series when the Dodgers needed seven games to topple my Twins. In my 30s I spent nearly six seasons living within walking distance of Dodger Stadium. I attended many games but could never embrace the Dodgers.

I'll be pulling for The Blue of the East over The Blue of the West.

I was hoping to see your M's in the WS. Yu guys had a nice run, this year and you did all the right things to maximize your chances. I'd wish you better luck, next year, but there is a certain other team in the same league. May we meet you in the 2026 ALCS!!!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, drewski6 said:

I honestly dont care if we win or lose. But rolling over the same mediocre roster every year is booooorrrrriiiinngggg and intellectually lazy.

I care that they try. Try to give me an entertaining product.  And rolling forward dudes just because they are here aint it.

And wanting home-grown and cheap is just propoganda.

Its a puzzle.  And just promoting internally isnt trying to solve it.

This team does not yet deserve to be forgiven for going with verdugo year after year.

I never advocated for buying All-Stars at every position like the Yankees used to, or buying aces for every turn through the rotation like LA. But cutting corners obviously isn't giving the Sox much of a fighting chance this decade.

Boston doesn't have to blow money on every big name free agent every year, but there are always certain talents available at positions of need. The Sox needed a top outfielder like Springer when he was a free agent, and the contract he signed with Toronto is comparable to Story's, but the fiscally fickle front fluffice didn't have to pay the tax -- and celebrated online. No fans did.

Springer won the World Series with five home runs vs. the Dodgers nine seasons ago, and his homer last night won the pennant for Toronto (after taking a 96 mph fastball off his kneecap over the weekend). It was his fourth HR of this postseason.

Who really cares about his WAR if he's still getting it done? '25 regular season: 32 HR, .309 BA, .959 OPS.