A Realistic Look at the 2026 Red Sox: Part I

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Stop.  We all liked Devers until he showed how difficult and selfish he was.

No one hated Cherington after 2013, either.  But after 2014 and 2015, many did.

Things change over time…

I'm not ashamed of really liking Devers and wanting us to finally keep one of our stars, after losing Betts, Bogey and countless others.

I was glad we extended him. 

I also wanted him moved off 3B for longer than my "Devers Forevers" chant.

He always seemed like a fun-loving player who loved the game and was a natural hitter, despite some flaws in his approach. I never expected him to sour and not want to do what what the team management felt was best for the team.

Call that flipping and flopping, if you want, but there is no denying the situation changed. Even if you think Brez or the team was 100% at fault for the situation, and you felt he was best used at DH or 3B and not 1B, the team wanted him at 1B and he refused. In what world does anyone think that's okay and that kind of player should return to the team?

I'm fine with being called a flip-flop on this issue, but wanting him back is worse than silly- it's absurd.

[notin]

2 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

And did the Red Sox give him away mid-season in his prime?

No they didn’t.  They let the Yankees pay him heavily to sit out games…

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Stop.  We all liked Devers until he showed how difficult and selfish he was.

No one hated Cherington after 2013, either.  But after 2014 and 2015, many did.

Things change over time…

Huh? Stop? You may think Devers was selfish, but NOT everyone did.

[a700hitter]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I would have been more understanding of Devers except asking him to move was due to Casas getting hurt.  Sorry, that’s just not forgiveable.  Your team has changed and you need to help out…

Sure, Breslow handled the situation just perfectly.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

Was Manny ever happy in Boston?  Idc about their happiness.  He was OPS ing over .900 at the time of the trade.  And I never had an inkling of his unhappiness in Boston until Breslow jerked him around and replaced him as the 3B with no prior communication. 

Reports said he almost immediately regretted signing with BOS, but Manny often looked very happy on the team, especially after winning multiple rings.

I agree, they botched the communication or position changes, and the Bloom promise made was a factor from the Devers' perspective, but the team needed him to change positions to make the club better. It seemed obvious  the team was better with Bregman at 3B and Devers at DH or 1B. The point is, even if you think the position change idea is wrong, do you really think it's okay for a player to refuse a move? To then call out the GM publically? To then show up his next team's manager over a PR'er sent out to help the team win?

The guy became a cancer, seemingly overnight. Even if he had good reasons to be upset, he still became a cancer. To me, that is beyond debate. He is a cancer and just about every SFG fan is aware of that, now. They'd gladly undo the trade.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not ashamed of really liking Devers and wanting us to finally keep one of our stars, after losing Betts, Bogey and countless others.

I was glad we extended him. 

I also wanted him moved off 3B for longer than my "Devers Forevers" chant.

He always seemed like a fun-loving player who loved the game and was a natural hitter, despite some flaws in his approach. I never expected him to sour and not want to do what what the team management felt was best for the team.

Call that flipping and flopping, if you want, but there is no denying the situation changed. Even if you think Brez or the team was 100% at fault for the situation, and you felt he was best used at DH or 3B and not 1B, the team wanted him at 1B and he refused. In what world does anyone think that's okay and that kind of player should return to the team?

I'm fine with being called a flip-flop on this issue, but wanting him back is worse than silly- it's absurd.

I already did call you flipping, and flopping. Brez wanted Raffy off 3B, and Brez wanted Raffy to try 1B. Cora had other ideas, and that’s what I’ve always gone with, so for the 1000th time I was fine with Raffy’s reactions, and actions. I’ll take Cora’s knowledge who knew Raffy best over BREZ anytime, and that’s what I did.

[a700hitter]

A guy who produces like Devers gets leeway to be a jerk.  Manny was a jerk his entire career.  I would put him in my lineup any day.  If Giants fans don’t like 30 bombs in their lineup because he didn’t want to be pinch run for, they are the dopes.

edit:  there was no evidence that Devers had issues until Breslow pulled the rug out on him.  He didn’t become a cancer overnight without provocation.

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Reports said he almost immediately regretted signing with BOS, but Manny often looked very happy on the team, especially after winning multiple rings.

I agree, they botched the communication or position changes, and the Bloom promise made was a factor from the Devers' perspective, but the team needed him to change positions to make the club better. It seemed obvious  the team was better with Bregman at 3B and Devers at DH or 1B. The point is, even if you think the position change idea is wrong, do you really think it's okay for a player to refuse a move? To then call out the GM publically? To then show up his next team's manager over a PR'er sent out to help the team win?

The guy became a cancer, seemingly overnight. Even if he had good reasons to be upset, he still became a cancer. To me, that is beyond debate. He is a cancer and just about every SFG fan is aware of that, now. They'd gladly undo the trade.

Raffy had every right to call out Brez privately, publicly, or any which way he chose. Most likely others wanted to do the same thing, and most likely Cora had some choice words for LOW Brez as well.. You  saying something is beyond debate definitely doesn’t make it so.

[a700hitter]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I already did call you flipping, and flopping. Brez wanted Raffy off 3B, and Brez wanted Raffy to try 1B. Cora had other ideas, and that’s what I’ve always gone with, so for the 1000th time I was fine with Raffy’s reactions, and actions. I’ll take Cora’s knowledge who knew Raffy best over BREZ anytime, and that’s what I did.

The FO already kicked Devers in the balls by getting Bregman.  They should not have made it so public that they asked him to play 1B.  They painted him in a very bad light probably to justify ousting him.

[Old Red]

Just now, a700hitter said:

The FO already kicked Devers in the balls by getting Bregman.  They should not have made it so public that they asked him to play 1B.  They painted him in a very bad light probably to justify ousting him.

I agree. Brez Botched things from the very beginning. 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, a700hitter said:

The FO already kicked Devers in the balls by getting Bregman.  They should not have made it so public that they asked him to play 1B.  They painted him in a very bad light probably to justify ousting him.

He painted himself into a bad light. he didn't need help, despite getting it.

Refusing to come out for a PR'er confirms it was not only about Brez. It's about Devers and his fragile ego being more important than doing what's best for the team.

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

I would have been more understanding of Devers except asking him to move was due to Casas getting hurt.  Sorry, that’s just not forgiveable.  Your team has changed and you need to help out…

Sorry, but Raffy couldn’t find a glove, because they told him to put his away.😜

[a700hitter]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He painted himself into a bad light. he didn't need help, despite getting it.

Refusing to come out for a PR'er confirms it was not only about Brez. It's about Devers and his fragile ego being more important than doing what's best for the team.

Let’s hate a guy for wanting to stay in the game.

[Old Red]

15 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He painted himself into a bad light. he didn't need help, despite getting it.

Refusing to come out for a PR'er confirms it was not only about Brez. It's about Devers and his fragile ego being more important than doing what's best for the team.

Talk about BASHING, and HATING someone.Shame on you.🤔

[moonslav59]

23 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

Let’s hate a guy for wanting to stay in the game.

There is a big difference from wanting to stay in the game and showing up your manager and the poor PR guy trying to do what he was told to do.

Defending these actions and wanting this guy back is mind-boggling, to me.

Blame Brez, Cora, JH & Co. all you want. They deserves a lot of blame, but the bottom line is insubordination, and condoning that is indefensible.

 

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

There is a big difference from wanting to stay in the game and showing up your manager and the poor PR guy trying to do what he was told to do.

Defending these actions and wanting this guy back is mind-boggling, to me.

Blame Brez, Cora, JH & Co. all you want. They deserves a lot of blame, but the bottom line is insubordination, and condoning that is indefensible.

 

Oh no! Insubordination.🤫

[moonslav59]

What's the chances the Sox can turn things around before the deadline?

Here is the schedule:

3 @ LAA

day off

3 @ CWS

3 @ NYM

ASB (4 days off)

4 v TBR (in 3 days)

3 v BAL

day off

3 v TOR

4 @ ATH

3 @LAD

[a700hitter]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

There is a big difference from wanting to stay in the game and showing up your manager and the poor PR guy trying to do what he was told to do.

Defending these actions and wanting this guy back is mind-boggling, to me.

Blame Brez, Cora, JH & Co. all you want. They deserves a lot of blame, but the bottom line is insubordination, and condoning that is indefensible.

 

When did I say that I wanted to get him back?  That bridge has been burned.  What I am saying is that it was a terrible FO blunder and horrific communication that ended up sending out of town a truly exceptional hitter.  It wasn’t a good FO move in the wildest stretch.

[a700hitter]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Oh no! Insubordination.🤫

I remember Manny being insubordinate and Jim Rice.  I remember quite a few great pitchers throughout the years telling their managers to go back to the dugout instead of coming out of the game.  I want those guys— every single one of them.

[a700hitter]

Devers is not a malcontent demon.  He is a 29 year old with dynamite in his bat.  He is a bit of a prima dona but that gets overlooked for 30 pops a year and tons of line drives.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

Devers is not a malcontent demon.  He is a 29 year old with dynamite in his bat.  He is a bit of a prima dona but that gets overlooked for 30 pops a year and tons of line drives.

Who is overlooking 30 pops a year?

Who is calling him a "demon?"

He was insubordinate under two GMs and managers, within a year.

BTW, Manny was dumped, too.

 

[a700hitter]

I’ll take that “insubordinate “ exceptional hitter over those incompetent GMs any day.  Who was the second GM that suffered the insubordination of Devers?

edit: while no one has called him a demon, the media and many fans have demonized him.

[Old Red]

26 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

I remember Manny being insubordinate and Jim Rice.  I remember quite a few great pitchers throughout the years telling their managers to go back to the dugout instead of coming out of the game.  I want those guys— every single one of them.

Agree 100%. Didn’t Rice grab Joe Morgan in the dugout one time?

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Who is overlooking 30 pops a year?

Who is calling him a "demon?"

He was insubordinate under two GMs and managers, within a year.

BTW, Manny was dumped, too.

 

Manny was 36, and definitely not the same thing with Raffy being in his prime.

[a700hitter]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Manny was 36, and definitely not the same thing with Raffy being in his prime.

Of course not.  Also, Manny publicly asked to be traded several times.  I don’t recall Devers doing that.  Apples and oranges,

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Huh? Stop? You may think Devers was selfish, but NOT everyone did.

Ok.  What is your label for a player asked to change positions due to injury to a teammate, but refuses?

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, a700hitter said:

I’ll take that “insubordinate “ exceptional hitter over those incompetent GMs any day.  Who was the second GM that suffered the insubordination of Devers?

edit: while no one has called him a demon, the media and many fans have demonized him.

The SFG GM, fans, teammates and manager experienced his insubordination.

Moving the goalpost to wanting the GM gone over Devers does not change the facts about what Devers did. It is a worthwhile new discussion point.

We just got a new principal at my school. The prior one told me he wanted me to switch to SpEd from ESL, as that department needs help. I did not want to move and let him know, but I accepted my new assignment. If the next principal tells me he wants be to teach ELA, guess what I'll do?

If I refuse, I'd fully expect to be let go. That's what happens when employees are insubordinate, even with good reasons.

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

Ok.  What is your label for a player asked to change positions due to injury to a teammate, but refuses?

...and who cares if "everyone" thinks he's selfish or not? 

We can't even all agree on what insubordination is.

[jad]

If Bregman was such a GREAT fielder and a GREAT team player and a GREAT 'willing-to-sacrifice' sort of guy, then the obvious question is 'WTF didn't HE move to first base?'  The RS FO has offered not a shred of evidence to refute the obvious interpretation that the plan was to unload Rafy's contract all along and to 'Tito' his departure by pushing the 'bad team-mate' bs, so that the fans (many of whom are here) would support the boy genius/flunkie Yalie  presumably in charge.

[a700hitter]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

...and who cares if "everyone" thinks he's selfish or not? 

We can't even all agree on what insubordination is.

I wouldn’t characterize Not wanting to be removed for a pinch runner as insubordinate.  He did leave the game.  I also don’t see how that was being insubordinate to a GM.

 

and calling a player a “cancer” is demonizing him.