Take a bow Mr Breslow

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I intentionally ignored Devers' post-trade stats because I think his pre-trade impact -- in the dugout, in the clubhouse, on the road trips -- had a much bigger effect on his teammates, coaches and front office.

I have no qualitative data to cite, but zero quotes says a lot. Not one Red Sox employee mourned his absence once he was gone.

[Bellhorn04]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Devers since trade: 836 OPS

Red Sox DH's not named Devers this season: 727 OPS

Devers since trade: 1.2 fWAR

Jordan Hicks since trade: -0.3 fWAR

The team would be BETTER if Devers was still here. Everytime Masa is DH'ing or Hicks is pitching, they'd be better with Devers. They went 3-7 the 10 games after trading Devers. They got better because they promoted Anthony, not because they traded Devers. Anthony and Devers could have been on the same team. Breslow just didn't like the contract. 

I agree that the trade was a salary dump. SFG dumped Hicks onto BOS. 

Since promoting Roman Anthony, the Red Sox are 45-27. 

Devers stunk for quite a while after the trade.  He's been hot as a pistol the last week or two.

No one will ever know how much of an impact the trade had on the Red Sox psychologically, but for the most part they've been playing a much better brand of baseball since the trade.  

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, cp176 said:

The Chapman extension and listening to his comments with respect to staying in Boston spoke volumes for this organization.  My thinking has been fairly critical of much of what management including Cora has done in the past few years.  My opinion has now changed.  As I watch games, one of the givens for me I guess is to second guess and hindsight.  It works for me.  It keeps me involved.  We’ve seen this before.  This group likes each other and they like playing in Boston.  Interesting and unexpected things can happen with this type of positive thinking.  No one knows where this season will ultimately go but it sure has given life to my love of baseball.

I agree and love the apparent attitude adjustment made over the winter and with the Devers trade.

I feel the same about my "love of the game." It was getting hard watching so many of our best players move on. The whole "wait till next year" feeling gets tiring, as most of us experienced for decades before 2004.

Seeing us lock up our best players and so many young player shining, this year is like a reboot.

[moonslav59]

29 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Devers since trade: 836 OPS

Red Sox DH's not named Devers this season: 727 OPS

Devers since trade: 1.2 fWAR

Jordan Hicks since trade: -0.3 fWAR

The team would be BETTER if Devers was still here. Everytime Masa is DH'ing or Hicks is pitching, they'd be better with Devers. They went 3-7 the 10 games after trading Devers. They got better because they promoted Anthony, not because they traded Devers. Anthony and Devers could have been on the same team. Breslow just didn't like the contract. 

I agree that the trade was a salary dump. SFG dumped Hicks onto BOS. 

Since promoting Roman Anthony, the Red Sox are 45-27. 

I'm kinda surprised by the .727 DH OPS, since Devers left. That's better than I would have guessed.

Remember when the Sox FO said this trade made us better? We all laughed and compared it to the "full throttle" comment. Little did we know.

Yes, the Anthony promotion was a big spark. Had Mayer and just one of our SP'ers not gotten hurt, maybe we'd have the best record in the AL or be leading the ALE, by now.

(HOU could say the same.)

[mvp 78]

22 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I intentionally ignored Devers' post-trade stats because I think his pre-trade impact -- in the dugout, in the clubhouse, on the road trips -- had a much bigger effect on his teammates, coaches and front office.

I have no qualitative data to cite, but zero quotes says a lot. Not one Red Sox employee mourned his absence once he was gone.

I think that zero quotes means that he was a non-issue when he was here. If he was a problem, we would have heard about it. 

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Devers stunk for quite a while after the trade.  He's been hot as a pistol the last week or two.

No one will ever know how much of an impact the trade had on the Red Sox psychologically, but for the most part they've been playing a much better brand of baseball since the trade.  

No one will ever know how much of an impact the trade had on Devers psychologically, but for the most part he's been playing a much better brand of baseball recently. 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm kinda surprised by the .727 DH OPS, since Devers left. That's better than I would have guessed.

Remember when the Sox FO said this trade made us better? We all laughed and compared it to the "full throttle" comment. Little did we know.

Yes, the Anthony promotion was a big spark. Had Mayer and just one of our SP'ers not gotten hurt, maybe we'd have the best record in the AL or be leading the ALE, by now.

(HOU could say the same.)

It includes Roman Anthony at DH, which greatly inflates the horribleness of everyone else who has played there. 

[Bellhorn04]

39 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

No one will ever know how much of an impact the trade had on Devers psychologically, but for the most part he's been playing a much better brand of baseball recently. 

Personally I don't think they trade him unless they think his attitude is a real issue.  They know damn well it makes the 2025 team a couple wins worse on paper.

What muddies the waters intent-wise, of course, is that it was also an opportunity to shed a very large contract.

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It includes Roman Anthony at DH, which greatly inflates the horribleness of everyone else who has played there. 

Refsnyder has too.

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Personally I don't think they trade him unless they think his attitude is a real issue.  They know damn well it makes the 2025 team a couple wins worse on paper.

What muddies the waters intent-wise, of course, is that it was also an opportunity to shed a very large contract.

The Sox would have been a better team in 2025 if they had kept Devers. This doesn't mean they will be worse going forward! Depending on how they spend his AAV and what they do at 1b/DH, the Sox could be better off without him on the roster. Can't say definitively today though. 

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Refsnyder has too.

744 OPS as a DH for Ref.

Lowe and Abreu are the only other guys with DH AB's that had OPS > 800, but both were SSS (11 PA's combined). Anthony has a 925 OPS at DH (950 LF, 775 RF).

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The Sox would have been a better team in 2025 if they had kept Devers. This doesn't mean they will be worse going forward! Depending on how they spend his AAV and what they do at 1b/DH, the Sox could be better off without him on the roster. Can't say definitively today though. 

Better on paper, but who knows what might have happened had he stayed.

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

744 OPS as a DH for Ref.

Lowe and Abreu are the only other guys with DH AB's that had OPS > 800, but both were SSS (11 PA's combined). Anthony has a 925 OPS at DH (950 LF, 775 RF).

B-R shows .779 on the team tab as DH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

51 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Personally I don't think they trade him unless they think his attitude is a real issue.  They know damn well it makes the 2025 team a couple wins worse on paper.

What muddies the waters intent-wise, of course, is that it was also an opportunity to shed a very large contract.

Breslow may always be defined by his prediction of improvement after trading Devers (unless the starting rotation all wear Tommy John underwear and the Sox fold)...

And it's fair to believe this salary dump was part of the plan for signing Bregman. The front office had a young core they knew needed to be locked up if they wanted to sustain contention and avoid kajillions in taxes. How would all those extensions fit into the budget? Hmmm... who makes the most AAV, taking up funds we'd love to spread around the roster?

It just defies logic that all those execs with advanced degrees never thought for one second to give their sensitive man-child superstar the respect of discussing their offseason plans for him before they acquired his replacement!

All those meetings, all those Assistant VPs, considering all the angles -- the idea must have occurred to someone: "Hey, maybe we should contact his agent... or at least have Cora talk to Raffy... if not, he may throw a fit!"

Reply: "Ya, if we don't, he may speak out to the media, sour on the org, maybe even force us to trade him..."

Superior: "Exactly- everyone at this meeting is now forever forbidden to repeat this with anyone."

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

B-R shows .779 on the team tab as DH.

Bref adds 2 games that FanGraphs does not. I used FanGraphs when I calculated. 🫠

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Breslow may always be defined by his prediction of improvement after trading Devers (unless the starting rotation all wear Tommy John underwear and the Sox fold)...

And it's fair to believe this salary dump was part of the plan for signing Bregman. The front office had a young core they knew needed to be locked up if they wanted to sustain contention and avoid kajillions in taxes. How would all those extensions fit into the budget? Hmmm... who makes the most AAV, taking up funds we'd love to spread around the roster?

It just defies logic that all those execs with advanced degrees never thought for one second to give their sensitive man-child superstar the respect of discussing their offseason plans for him before they acquired his replacement!

All those meetings, all those Assistant VPs, considering all the angles -- the idea must have occurred to someone: "Hey, maybe we should contact his agent... or at least have Cora talk to Raffy... if not, he may throw a fit!"

Reply: "Ya, if we don't, he may speak out to the media, sour on the org, maybe even force us to trade him..."

Superior: "Exactly- everyone at this meeting is now forever forbidden to repeat this with anyone."

But signing Bregman seems like it was a very long way from a sure thing, especially since the total guaranteed money was significantly less than other offers he got.

As with many things concerning the Sox behind the scenes doings, we'll never really know.

[drewski6]

Bresbot , to me, is already well defined. Hes a less likeable ben cherington.  

[drewski6]

and a liar

[Bellhorn04]

20 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Bresbot , to me, is already well defined. Hes a less likeable ben cherington.  

Not liking the results?

[moonslav59]

I guess people expect perfection from a human.

It's no wonder they are always let down.

[drewski6]

32 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Not liking the results?

I dont like the person

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess people expect perfection from a human.

It's no wonder they are always let down.

He's not perfect by any means, but I'm not complaining because of where their record stands right now. 

[drewski6]

I should say I dont love the person, not that I dont like him.  I dont think AC's job should rest in the hands of this stiff.  

[Maxbialystock]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Devers stunk for quite a while after the trade.  He's been hot as a pistol the last week or two.

No one will ever know how much of an impact the trade had on the Red Sox psychologically, but for the most part they've been playing a much better brand of baseball since the trade.  

As it turns out, the signature moves of the season were picking up Bregman, Crochet, Chapman, Narvaez, and Anthony and letting Devers go to the Giants.

It is no coincidence that all 5 of the additions have been good for the Sox defense as Devers never was.  

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I should say I dont love the person, not that I dont like him.  I dont think AC's job should rest in the hands of this stiff.  

This "stiff" is doing pretty damn good, in just 2 season.

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He's not perfect by any means, but I'm not complaining because of where their record stands right now. 

To me, it goes beyond the record. He's made over 10 good to great moves and maybe 3-4 bad ones. (Not counting the minors choices.)

I also like the new direction on the farm, the extensions and the future outlook.

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

and a liar

Meh.  Public utterances by senior management are always calculated and seldom fulsome.

You have to go by how this team is playing, which is pretty doggone well.    They even have a halfway decent shot at the best W-L record in the AL.  Detroit has the most wins, 80, and the Sox 77, but the Sox have been winning since the ASG and the Detroit has been playing .500 ball.

And can there be any doubt that the additions of Bregman, Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez have made a difference?  Giolito has helped too.  CB gets credit for Anthony, Mayer, Bello, Story, Duran, Rafaela, et al, but the Sox finished last in the AL East in the last 3 seasons.  

I agree Devers was jacked around, but that was inevitable the day the Sox signed Bregman.  Devers hated moving to DH and even more being asked to play 1b.  SF has been good for him, and his absence has actually improved the Sox won-loss record.  

Breslow has a reputation of being very smart but not very personable.  Plus he's just in his 2d season ever as a CBO.  I don't care if he's personable.  John Henry never was.  I like results, which both have brought to the Red Sox.  

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Devers since trade: 836 OPS

Red Sox DH's not named Devers this season: 727 OPS

Devers since trade: 1.2 fWAR

Jordan Hicks since trade: -0.3 fWAR

The team would be BETTER if Devers was still here. Everytime Masa is DH'ing or Hicks is pitching, they'd be better with Devers. They went 3-7 the 10 games after trading Devers. They got better because they promoted Anthony, not because they traded Devers. Anthony and Devers could have been on the same team. Breslow just didn't like the contract. 

I agree that the trade was a salary dump. SFG dumped Hicks onto BOS. 

Since promoting Roman Anthony, the Red Sox are 45-27. 

I agree part of it was a salary dump. It was also a diva dump. Most teams don't want a player who puts the name on the back of his jersey above the name on the front. Toxic.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I agree Devers was jacked around, but that was inevitable the day the Sox signed Bregman.  Devers hated moving to DH and even more being asked to play 1b.  SF has been good for him, and his absence has actually improved the Sox won-loss record.  

They should have done what I suggested: moved Devers to 1B and Casas to DH, the second we traded for Bregman.

We could have kept Devers pouting sessions to one. We could have moved the fragile and worst defensive1Bman in MLB to DH.

Win-Win. Maybe Devers is still here and at 30 HRs by now.

[notin]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Devers since trade: 836 OPS

Red Sox DH's not named Devers this season: 727 OPS

Devers since trade: 1.2 fWAR

Jordan Hicks since trade: -0.3 fWAR

The team would be BETTER if Devers was still here. Everytime Masa is DH'ing or Hicks is pitching, they'd be better with Devers. They went 3-7 the 10 games after trading Devers. They got better because they promoted Anthony, not because they traded Devers. Anthony and Devers could have been on the same team. Breslow just didn't like the contract. 

I agree that the trade was a salary dump. SFG dumped Hicks onto BOS. 

Since promoting Roman Anthony, the Red Sox are 45-27. 

The Sox absolutely could have kept Devers, but MLB won’t let them use a lineup with 4 outfielders and two DHs.  Devers’ exit was prompted by his stubborn inflexibility.  If they kept him at DH, were they going to bench Duran, Rafaela or Abreu to get Anthony into the lineup?