Marlins (Junk) vs Red Sox (Crochet): 8/17/25, 1:35pm

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I understand the criticism of Campbell for today's game, but I think Weissert needs to be able to lock it down. Sox need to be able to have more than one high leverage arm in the bullpen. If it's only Chapman back there, they are really screwed come playoff time. 

Whitlock had been on a pretty good roll prior to that.  Nobody can put up an endless string of zeroes.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I understand the criticism of Campbell for today's game, but I think Weissert needs to be able to lock it down. Sox need to be able to have more than one high leverage arm in the bullpen. If it's only Chapman back there, they are really screwed come playoff time. 

Was it only a year ago when Red Sox relievers blew more games than any other bullpen? 

Before the 9th I looked at my son and said you know who I'm blaming when they blow this game. He asked "Weissert?", and I said it's a guy who won't even play today. He shook his head and muttered, "Campbell."

Wilson has been better than I expected, but he was another guy Cora wouldn't use three days in a row yesterday. I knew it Saturday, and was hoping then that AC would just let him pitch the 8th because of it -- he had only faced two batters in the 7th. Then Matz could've thrown a scoreless 9th and saved Chappy for Sunday.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Whitlock had been on a pretty good roll prior to that.  Nobody can put up an endless string of zeroes.

1.75 WHIP in August for Whitlock. 

Just feels like the bullpen needs an extra guy out there. Maybe Slaten gets back soon and becomes that guy? Maybe it's someone else? Maybe it's a hole that isn't fixed and we wish it was acquired at the deadline? IDK.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Was it only a year ago when Red Sox relievers blew more games than any other bullpen? 

Before the 9th I looked at my son and said you know who I'm blaming when they blow this game. He asked "Weissert?", and I said it's a guy who won't even play today. He shook his head and muttered, "Campbell."

Wilson has been better than I expected, but he was another guy Cora wouldn't use three days in a row yesterday. I knew it Saturday, and was hoping then that AC would just let him pitch the 8th because of it -- he had only faced two batters in the 7th. Then Matz could've thrown a scoreless 9th and saved Chappy for Sunday.

It's clearly time for a Campbell DFA. They need Bernardino back even though it'll be a 85% lefty pen. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's clearly time for a Campbell DFA. They need Bernardino back even though it'll be a 85% lefty pen. 

Isiah Campbell needs to go because Cora keeps confusing him with Kristian. 

And it's time to bring Bernie back from where they were stashing him until Duran and Toro could pass him in errors. Current E tallies: Duran 7, Toro 6, Bernardino 5 (only 1 behind Dollander for the MLB lead for pitchers).

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Isiah Campbell needs to go because Cora keeps confusing him with Kristian. 

And it's time to bring Bernie back from where they were stashing him until Duran and Toro could pass him in errors. Current E tallies: Duran 7, Toro 6, Bernardino 5 (only 1 behind Dollander for the MLB lead for pitchers).

Just make Bernardino the low leverage Campbell guy and go easy on him. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I understand the criticism of Campbell for today's game, but I think Weissert needs to be able to lock it down. Sox need to be able to have more than one high leverage arm in the bullpen. If it's only Chapman back there, they are really screwed come playoff time. 

I agree on the latter part, and think Whitlock and even Weissert have been fine in those roles.  But they are going to have the occasional bad day, and blaming Campbell for those days is beyond silly…

[notin]

56 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's clearly time for a Campbell DFA. They need Bernardino back even though it'll be a 85% lefty pen. 

So clearly yesterdays bullpen explosion was Cora’s fault, because if he didn’t overuse Betnardino and necessitate a demotion for some R & R, then Campbell would not even be on the roster forcing the use of Chapman unnecessarily two days ago, leaving Chapman available to pitch yesterday in the event both Whitlock and Weissert were unable to lock anything down.

Or is that too silly?  Maybe it’s Bloom’s fault for acquiring Campbell in the first place.

Frankly, I blame Abner Doubleday for bastardizing Cricket in the first place…

[Nick]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

1.75 WHIP in August for Whitlock. 

Just feels like the bullpen needs an extra guy out there. Maybe Slaten gets back soon and becomes that guy? Maybe it's someone else? Maybe it's a hole that isn't fixed and we wish it was acquired at the deadline? IDK.

thanks for telling it like it is......Whitlock always gets a pass on this board. He gets hit hard. That's just what I see. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

1.75 WHIP in August for Whitlock. 

Just feels like the bullpen needs an extra guy out there. Maybe Slaten gets back soon and becomes that guy? Maybe it's someone else? Maybe it's a hole that isn't fixed and we wish it was acquired at the deadline? IDK.

Whitlock - 6 IP in August.

And it’s more of a HIP than a WHIP, since he only has one walk…

[notin]

15 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I believe using a closer 3 straight days ended with Goose Gossage.

Former Pirates/Twins closer Kent Tekulve used to say “if it was up to me, I would never pitch 3 days in a row and never go 3 days without pitching.”

 

[notin]

12 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Rafaela’s OPS I believe is .731 and sinking fast. He was at .793 a month ago. I believe I wrote I thought he’d end up at .720-.740. If he can’t maintain at least .720 I’d consider him unacceptable with a bat. 
I agree with guess one without the last baseless assumption you made that he would “blow out his arm “. 
There’s no reason to believe they will flop again against the O’s. After all, we have our new ace going. 
Dustin May. 

Im bitchin and whining that Cora probably cost us this game. IMO he was an idiot.

Meanwhile it looks like we will only lose a game to the Yankmees today. The Mets are ahead of the Ms 7-1.
 

AL average OPS is .720.  So now league average is unacceptable?  For a player who brings it with the glove?

[mvp 78]

32 minutes ago, notin said:

So clearly yesterdays bullpen explosion was Cora’s fault, because if he didn’t overuse Betnardino and necessitate a demotion for some R & R, then Campbell would not even be on the roster forcing the use of Chapman unnecessarily two days ago, leaving Chapman available to pitch yesterday in the event both Whitlock and Weissert were unable to lock anything down.

Or is that too silly?  Maybe it’s Bloom’s fault for acquiring Campbell in the first place.

Frankly, I blame Abner Doubleday for bastardizing Cricket in the first place…

They need someone better than Campbell on the roster. Cora isn't at fault for cooking with the groceries he was given. 

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

AL average OPS is .720.  So now league average is unacceptable?  For a player who brings it with the glove?

-5 DRS, -5 OAA this season FWIW

[moonslav59]

Our pen has the 4th best fWAR in MLB. fWAR is largely influenced by more IP, and yet the Sox are 18th in pen IP. Our pen is 2nd in ERA-. You don't get ranked this highly with just one pitcher who places 4th in PAs against (Chapman.)

Whitlock (.568 OPSA) and Slaten (.465,) when healthy have done a great job.

Weissert has been our #3 pen guy with Slaten out, and has a .670 OPSA and has faced the second most batters from the pen. Ideally, he'd be our #4, but he's okay as a #3.

Wilson has slipped, som. He's down to .679, now.

Maybe a Bernardino (.566) call-up will help. We will likely need someone to step it up.

[FredLynn]

27 minutes ago, notin said:

AL average OPS is .720.  So now league average is unacceptable?  For a player who brings it with the glove?

If you build your team around average players you will get an average team. Aren't you tired of mediocrity? I am. 

[notin]

44 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They need someone better than Campbell on the roster. Cora isn't at fault for cooking with the groceries he was given. 

I ask in all seriousness, was the sarcasm in that post not apparent enough?  I thought I iced it by blaming yesterday’s loss on Abner Doubleday.

Campbell  isn’t much and is probably also peaking.  But the inability of Weissert and Whitlock this one day was NOT his fault.  And if we are going to play some sort of hypothetical game here, why did Cora resort to Chapman to get one out with only a runner on first and the #9 hitter due up?  Overkill? Couldn’t Weissert have done that? 
 

Everyone is blaming Campbell, but the Sox did win the game he pitched…

[notin]

4 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

If you build your team around average players you will get an average team. Aren't you tired of mediocrity? I am. 

Having one player hitting at league average is NOT building the team around mediocrity, especially if that one player is among the team leaders in WAR because he is elite defensively.

Your expectations are getting unrealistic…

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I ask in all seriousness, was the sarcasm in that post not apparent enough?  I thought I iced it by blaming yesterday’s loss on Abner Doubleday.

Kennedy isn’t much and is probably also peaking.  But the inability of Weissert and Whitlock this one day was NOT his fault.  And if we are going to play some sort of hypothetical game here, why did Cora resort to Chapman to get one out with only a runner on first and the #9 hitter due up?  Overkill? Couldn’t Weissert have done that? 
 

Everyone is blaming Kennedy, but the Sox did win the game he pitched…

We do blame Sam Kennedy for a lot of things, it's true.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Having one player hitting at league average is NOT building the team around mediocrity, especially if that one player is among the team leaders in WAR because he is elite defensively.

Your expectations are getting unrealistic…

My expectation are that this "big market team" should compete nearly every year for a playoff spot. To do so you need ABOVE AVERAGE players at most positions. If Rafaela sinks down to .720 OPS he becomes ordinary with a bat in his hands, like JBJ was when he tanked too. Lets hope it doesn't come to that. He is a streaky hitter. Maybe he will turn his game around and be worth more than a late inning defensive replacement.

[notin]

25 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They need someone better than Campbell on the roster. Cora isn't at fault for cooking with the groceries he was given. 

The Sox have used 20 different relief f pitchers so far this year.  Just relief pitchers.  And that’s not counting Abraham Toro and other position players.

Cora can only use the groceries purchased for him, but  at some point if he looks in that cupboard, he is going to find a can of SPAM.  And so will every other MLB manager.  But will they all find it on the 20th try or earlier?

[notin]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We do blame Sam Kennedy for a lot of things, it's true.

I have no idea why - and this is not a first - I keep thinking Isaiah Campbell’s last name is Kennedy…

[moonslav59]

Just now, FredLynn said:

If you build your team around average players you will get an average team. Aren't you tired of mediocrity? I am. 

Most championship teams have many players near average and several above or highly above average. They also have precious few very bad players.

This team lacks a mega star hitter, beyond Bregman, who was not excellent in recent years on offense.

The MLB OPS is .719, and most competitive teams are above that mark, and the Sox are +.033.

MIL, PHI, NYM, DET, SEA, HOU, SDP, ATL, KCR, TEX & CLE are below us. Three competitive teams are ahead of us.

.776 NYY

.770 LAD

.768 TOR

.752 T CHC & BOS

How is this average?

270 players (30 teams x 9 players) have 225+ PAs. 120 of them are below .719. That's an average of about 4 per team: we have one: Toro, and he is about to be replaced. (Ref does not qualify.)

We have 2 in the top 23 players (Bregman & Romy) + 1 more than avg

3 in the top 36 (Anthony) + 1 more than avg.

4 in top 58 (Abreu) +2 more than avg

5 in top 81 (Duran) +2

7 in top 143 (Rafaela & Narvaez) +2

[notin]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

My expectation are that this "big market team" should compete nearly every year for a playoff spot. To do so you need ABOVE AVERAGE players at most positions. If Rafaela sinks down to .720 OPS he becomes ordinary with a bat in his hands, like JBJ was when he tanked too. Lets hope it doesn't come to that. He is a streaky hitter. Maybe he will turn his game around and be worth more than a late inning defensive replacement.

So “above average” means with the bat only? You must miss Devers.

A .720 OPS from Rafaela is not the same as a .720 OPS from Toro…

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, notin said:

So “above average” means with the bat only? You must miss Devers.

A .720 OPS from Rafaela is not the same as a .720 OPS from Toro…

Rafaela has been an above avg hitter and GG type CF'er. 

Teams win with guys like Rafaela, many many times.

Too many Toro's, Hicks' and ICampbells can do a team in, but we don't have too many that bad.

[FredLynn]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Most championship teams have many players near average and several above or highly above average. They also have precious few very bad players.

This team lacks a mega star hitter, beyond Bregman, who was not excellent in recent years on offense.

The MLB OPS is .719, and most competitive teams are above that mark, and the Sox are +.033.

MIL, PHI, NYM, DET, SEA, HOU, SDP, ATL, KCR, TEX & CLE are below us. Three competitive teams are ahead of us.

.776 NYY

.770 LAD

.768 TOR

.752 T CHC & BOS

How is this average?

270 players (30 teams x 9 players) have 225+ PAs. 120 of them are below .719. That's an average of about 4 per team: we have one: Toro, and he is about to be replaced. (Ref does not qualify.)

We have 2 in the top 23 players (Bregman & Romy) + 1 more than avg

3 in the top 36 (Anthony) + 1 more than avg.

4 in top 58 (Abreu) +2 more than avg

5 in top 81 (Duran) +2

7 in top 143 (Rafaela & Narvaez) +2

We have on our team: Wong, Toro, Narvaez, Romy, AND Rafaela (maybe I forgot some too) who are either nearly useless with a bat in their hands or are falling off a cliff offensively. I agree: not everyone has to be above average to be a competitive team. But you CANNOT have five black holes or players headed in that direction. Its why the team has struggled lately offensively despite occasional ten run games.

[FredLynn]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

So “above average” means with the bat only? You must miss Devers.

A .720 OPS from Rafaela is not the same as a .720 OPS from Toro…

It depends on how many other players are useless or becoming that way with a bat. I wouldn't mind Rafaela not hitting if Toro, Wong, Romy, Narvaez etc etc were also were contributing. Lately they have not. One or two Rafaelas on your team is fine. Not more.

[moonslav59]

Less than 60 pitchers in MLB have a higher fWAR and more IP than Bello and Giolito at 1.3.

Crochet is #2 in fWAR (5.0)

ERA-

4. Crochet at 57

22. Bello at 76

36. Giolito at 85

That's far from average.

Best closer in MLB: average?

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

We have on our team: Wong, Toro, Narvaez, Romy, AND Rafaela (maybe I forgot some too) who are either nearly useless with a bat in their hands or are falling off a cliff offensively. I agree: not everyone has to be above average to be a competitive team. But you CANNOT have five black holes or players headed in that direction. Its why the team has struggled lately offensively despite occasional ten run games.

Romy is a top 30 batter in MLB. Rafaela and Narvaez are slightly above average, but call them average.

Among catchers, being near .720 is significantly above average, and he and Wong are plus on D.

Take a look at other teams through the same lense you look at the Sox. Almost all have way more below avg players than we do. Our strength is in balance and having very few bad players or even slightly below players.

Concentrating on just O is kinds weird, too, but we hold our own on O.

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Romy is a top 30 batter in MLB. Rafaela and Narvaez are slightly above average, but call them average.

Among catchers, being near .720 is significantly above average, and he and Wong are plus on D.

Take a look at other teams through the same lense you look at the Sox. Almost all have way more below avg players than we do. Our strength is in balance and having very few bad players or even slightly below players.

Concentrating on just O is kinds weird, too, but we hold our own on O.

Rafaela since the ASB: 508 OPS

The dropoff from CF defense (one of the two best in the game) to average 2b is too much to give up as well. He's been David Hamilton out there. Maybe worse!