It's Time to Can Cora

[drewski6]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

That very well may be true. Personally, I can't think anyone would think Casas is a better 1Bman than devers could be, but that is all speculation on my part. We do know Cora has had certain strong opinions on players and positions and is fiercely loyal to many players. He once called Kike one of the best defensive SSs in MLB. He resisted moving Bogey off SS, when we signed Story. I do think he did not want to upset Devers by moving him off 3B, but he ended up asking him to DH, so I can't help but raise an eyebrow over not just telling him it's 1B not DH. The fact that he apparently never even asked Devers to play 1B, let alone tell him to, supports your opinion.

It was strange that Cora initially floated the idea of Bregman at 2B and devers at 3B and even Bregman okay'd the idea, but he did move off that position- perhaps with a nudge from Brez. It looked like a "nudge" was not going to be enough to convince Cora to get Devers to try 1B. The whole situation was weird, to me. How often do you see a GM going to speak to a player s about a position move? Then , some reports said Brez never even asked him to play 1B; he just told him they'd like him to play there.

Seems like there were just too many unknowns to throw most of the blame on one guy. I know some say 50+% is on Devers, while some seem to think Cora is the main guy to blame. I'm not sure I need to know. I'm kinda glad we moved on, but only if we can add a mega bat to take his slot, and no, it's not Anthony. Anthony is the boost we need to improve- not the boost we needed to maybe stay even.

"The whole situation was weird to me" because thats not the situation. Brez did NOT step in and try to make the lineup card. The lineup card changes every night.  This is all your own speculation. What happened is Brez made a throw-a-way comment to the media.  And the media overblew it.  That in combination with the fact that Devers was being a complete block-head.  He was being stubborn and too old school.  But it was fixable and had mostly been fixed.

This all seems weird to you. But listen up.  AC is not some weirdo who does things crazy. Who should play 1b vs DH devers or Casas? These are not 2025 questions.  Is story better suited for ss or 2b? These are not 2025 questions.  Is it worth to have a sub-optimal defensive alignment to not piss off your best player who is easily pissed off? 1 million times yes.

The reason he didnt agonize over Bogey vs Story at SS is because like I keep telling you - thats not the lens of how things are viewed in 2025.

Yes, the plan was Bregman to play 2b and devers to play 3b? It didnt change because brez stepped in. It changed becasue Raffys arm wasnt healing. So how do keep him in? We juggle.  So do you play him at 1b or DH? Prob both but who cares.

AC is just too smart to be worrying about something like perfect positional alignment. Hes worried on the important stuff like finding a way to get his best hitters in there while having a defense that is good enough.

Like I said:

Offense (50%) = pitching (40%) + defense (10%).  That 10% can sink you but you dont construct your roster philosophy about maximizing it.  The Yankees did not care that Jeter and Arod were both SS.

[moonslav59]

47 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

"The whole situation was weird to me" because thats not the situation. Brez did NOT step in and try to make the lineup card. The lineup card changes every night.  This is all your own speculation. What happened is Brez made a throw-a-way comment to the media.  And the media overblew it.  That in combination with the fact that Devers was being a complete block-head.  He was being stubborn and too old school.  But it was fixable and had mostly been fixed.

This all seems weird to you. But listen up.  AC is not some weirdo who does things crazy. Who should play 1b vs DH devers or Casas? These are not 2025 questions.  Is story better suited for ss or 2b? These are not 2025 questions.  Is it worth to have a sub-optimal defensive alignment to not piss off your best player who is easily pissed off? 1 million times yes.

The reason he didnt agonize over Bogey vs Story at SS is because like I keep telling you - thats not the lens of how things are viewed in 2025.

Yes, the plan was Bregman to play 2b and devers to play 3b? It didnt change because brez stepped in. It changed becasue Raffys arm wasnt healing. So how do keep him in? We juggle.  So do you play him at 1b or DH? Prob both but who cares.

AC is just too smart to be worrying about something like perfect positional alignment. Hes worried on the important stuff like finding a way to get his best hitters in there while having a defense that is good enough.

Like I said:

Offense (50%) = pitching (40%) + defense (10%).  That 10% can sink you but you dont construct your roster philosophy about maximizing it.  The Yankees did not care that Jeter and Arod were both SS.

It's weird that the organization wanted Devers to play 3B, but the manger apparently never even hinted at it with Devers, let alone politely asked if he could even broach the subject.

I think it's weird they did not view Devers as a better 1Bman than Casas- the worst on D  in the history of MLB- maybe.

I think it's weird and GM gets on a plane to speak to Devers, but apparently never asked him to play 1B, either.

I do think Cora can think of several things over a winter and positional alignment is one, especially when you see how bad our D was in 2023 and 2024.

The Yanks did not agonize over keeping Jeter at SS, but maybe they should have.

[jdc69]

47 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

"The whole situation was weird to me" because thats not the situation. Brez did NOT step in and try to make the lineup card. The lineup card changes every night.  This is all your own speculation. What happened is Brez made a throw-a-way comment to the media.  And the media overblew it.  That in combination with the fact that Devers was being a complete block-head.  He was being stubborn and too old school.  But it was fixable and had mostly been fixed.

This all seems weird to you. But listen up.  AC is not some weirdo who does things crazy. Who should play 1b vs DH devers or Casas? These are not 2025 questions.  Is story better suited for ss or 2b? These are not 2025 questions.  Is it worth to have a sub-optimal defensive alignment to not piss off your best player who is easily pissed off? 1 million times yes.

The reason he didnt agonize over Bogey vs Story at SS is because like I keep telling you - thats not the lens of how things are viewed in 2025.

Yes, the plan was Bregman to play 2b and devers to play 3b? It didnt change because brez stepped in. It changed becasue Raffys arm wasnt healing. So how do keep him in? We juggle.  So do you play him at 1b or DH? Prob both but who cares.

AC is just too smart to be worrying about something like perfect positional alignment. Hes worried on the important stuff like finding a way to get his best hitters in there while having a defense that is good enough.

Like I said:

Offense (50%) = pitching (40%) + defense (10%).  That 10% can sink you but you dont construct your roster philosophy about maximizing it.  The Yankees did not care that Jeter and Arod were both SS.

The Jeter, Arod thing is more like, you do whatever Jeter wants because he helped you win multiple championships, crashing into seats and being clutch while Arod was being a diva, getting paid record breaking amounts of money by the Rangers while simultaneously complaining about always being in last place and having no other good players. Of course the reason they didn't have good players was because of his massive contract! The Yankees are going to replace Jeter with him???

I also would put pitching and defense combo higher than 50 %.

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's weird that the organization wanted Devers to play 3B, but the manger apparently never even hinted at it with Devers, let alone politely asked if he could even broach the subject.

I think it's weird they did not view Devers as a better 1Bman than Casas- the worst on D  in the history of MLB- maybe.

I think it's weird and GM gets on a plane to speak to Devers, but apparently never asked him to play 1B, either.

I do think Cora can think of several things over a winter and positional alignment is one, especially when you see how bad our D was in 2023 and 2024.

The Yanks did not agonize over keeping Jeter at SS, but maybe they should have.

Devers wasnt healthy at the start of camp, that is a big thing in all of this.  Had he been, I do think it would have Bregman at 2b from the rip. That was plan A.  Plan B was to have Devers start at DH while he healed up. But it was always shaky.  Because if Devers wasnt healthy at the START of the season, could we really expect him to get and stay healthy while playing third? You dive around a lot at the hot corner. Ball comes at you fast.

Initially, I wanted Devers at 3b and Breg at 2b. I was willing to live with it to have them both in the lineup. But I started souring on it because I was concerned about Devers getting and staying healthy. And if you are worried about health, it makes more sense to put him at DH than 1b.  Low risk of injury playing 1b but lower risk sitting on the bench.

Then we got deep into the preseason and Devers arm did still not feel 100%. So it started looking like he was going to open as DH.  ANd then I think thats when it became apparent (the slow healing) that his body was probably best reserved for doing what we pay him to do (hit).  Yes , teh defensive upgrade you got along the way from turning Devers into a DH was a nice bonus. But Devers wasnt fired from 3b for being bad at it. He was fired for not having the body for it and not healing.  Which , honestly, makes him seem even more like a blockhead. Like do you not realize that you are all but guaranteed to get hurt again playing 3b, man?

Regarding who asked who to do what and when, Im hazy on.  But I really dont think Brez was stepping in to do Coras job for him.  Its possible. Cora and Brez seem to get along better today than they did at first. It seems to me like their relationship improved. Which is good news. And if Im wrong about that and they dont have a good working relationship, Brez needs to go. BUt im not as anti-Brez as I was because I think he earned Coras respect and that impresses me and I trust Cora.

Also re-reading my post before this one, the one you responded to, I dont love my own tone. Sorry about that.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

The Jeter, Arod thing is more like, you do whatever Jeter wants because he helped you win multiple championships, crashing into seats and being clutch while Arod was being a diva, getting paid record breaking amounts of money by the Rangers while simultaneously complaining about always being in last place and having no other good players. Of course the reason they didn't have good players was because of his massive contract! The Yankees are going to replace Jeter with him???

I also would put pitching and defense combo higher than 50 %.

The reason you dont care that Jeter and Arod play the same position is because if you can have both , you have both.

You dont not get Michael Jordan if you already have Kobe. You play one at small forward or point guard even though they are both 2 guards.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

The Jeter, Arod thing is more like, you do whatever Jeter wants because he helped you win multiple championships, crashing into seats and being clutch while Arod was being a diva, getting paid record breaking amounts of money by the Rangers while simultaneously complaining about always being in last place and having no other good players.

All true, but how well did that work out? Look at all the rings the Yanks got with a better defensive SS playing 3B.

Just play your best batters at the positions that are best for the team and stop pampering your stars with the greatest seniority.

[moonslav59]

I have no issues with your tone, Drew. I appreciate your insights.

I think Devers was healthy enough to play 1B.

Casas was an injury waiting to happen, but had .850 w 30 HR potential as our DH.

I'm fine if you disagree, but I firmly believe the best line-up was Devers at 1B, Casas at DH, and Bregman at 3B. (Mayer at SS and Story at 2B might have been better than Campbell at 2B and Story at 2B, but we did make the playoffs.)

I wonder if we'd moved Devers to 1B not DH, right off the bat, if he'd still be here. We'd be talking about adding one big bat- not two.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I wonder if we'd moved Devers to 1B not DH, right off the bat, if he'd still be here. We'd be talking about adding one big bat- not two.

This was always my line of thinking.  I don't care what the record before and after the trade was, too many other factors lead to those records.  The truth is this was a better team with Rafael Devers in the lineup and the lack of a big bat killed them in October.  

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

This was always my line of thinking.  I don't care what the record before and after the trade was, too many other factors lead to those records.  The truth is this was a better team with Rafael Devers in the lineup and the lack of a big bat killed them in October.  

Imagine going into 2026 with this....

1. Anthony LF

2. Bregman 3B

3. Devers 1B

4. Alonso DH

5.Abreu RF

6. Story SS

7. Mayer 2B

8. Narvaez C

9. Rafaela CF

(If somehow we keep Duran....)

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

30 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

The truth is this was a better team with Rafael Devers in the lineup and the lack of a big bat killed them in October.  

One big bat? That line-up in the Bronx needed a whole chimney of bats flying out of it at dusk.

[Old Red]

45 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

All true, but how well did that work out? Look at all the rings the Yanks got with a better defensive SS playing 3B.

Just play your best batters at the positions that are best for the team and stop pampering your stars with the greatest seniority.

Show me where pampering your stars with the greatest seniority doesn’t happen, and what sport. Just, because you thought Story playing SS, and moving Bogey made more sense to you doesn’t mean it was the right move to make, and Cora saw it that way. Just, because you thought Raffy should move to 1B even if Casas was still there, and make Casas the DH doesn’t mean it was the right move to make, and Cora would see it that way.🙈

[drewski6]

40 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Show me where pampering your stars with the greatest seniority doesn’t happen, and what sport. Just, because you thought Story playing SS, and moving Bogey made more sense to you doesn’t mean it was the right move to make, and Cora saw it that way. Just, because you thought Raffy should move to 1B even if Casas was still there, and make Casas the DH doesn’t mean it was the right move to make, and Cora would see it that way.🙈

Its not even just sports. You would be shocked what top salesman and executives get away with in corp america.

We dont all live under the same set of rules.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I have no issues with your tone, Drew. I appreciate your insights.

I think Devers was healthy enough to play 1B.

Casas was an injury waiting to happen, but had .850 w 30 HR potential as our DH.

I'm fine if you disagree, but I firmly believe the best line-up was Devers at 1B, Casas at DH, and Bregman at 3B. (Mayer at SS and Story at 2B might have been better than Campbell at 2B and Story at 2B, but we did make the playoffs.)

I wonder if we'd moved Devers to 1B not DH, right off the bat, if he'd still be here. We'd be talking about adding one big bat- not two.

To piggyback off Reds point, I dont necessarily disagree that this could have been our best defensive alignment.  I just thought that if Raffy has a better chance of staying healthy at DH than 1b, Id rather have him at DH.

Similarly, Bogey vs Story who plays SS, who gets moved over? I dont think its worth the drama.

I dont think optimal defensive alignment is worth rattling cages.  Unless you are talking about a significant upgrade to SS or CF.

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Show me where pampering your stars with the greatest seniority doesn’t happen, and what sport. Just, because you thought Story playing SS, and moving Bogey made more sense to you doesn’t mean it was the right move to make, and Cora saw it that way. Just, because you thought Raffy should move to 1B even if Casas was still there, and make Casas the DH doesn’t mean it was the right move to make, and Cora would see it that way.🙈

Show me where I said pampering didn't happen in all sports.

I gave my opinion on how best I felt the defense and DH slot should be filled. I stated that one or a major reason many of these moves are not made is based on pampering high seniority players.

Of course I know just because I have an opinion it has to be the right one.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

To piggyback off Reds point, I dont necessarily disagree that this could have been our best defensive alignment.  I just thought that if Raffy has a better chance of staying healthy at DH than 1b, Id rather have him at DH.

Similarly, Bogey vs Story who plays SS, who gets moved over? I dont think its worth the drama.

I dont think optimal defensive alignment is worth rattling cages.  Unless you are talking about a significant upgrade to SS or CF.

True on maybe Devers staying healthy as a factor, but I view Casas- a potential big bat we both think the teams needed sorely and still do, is the real China doll on teh team.

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

True on maybe Devers staying healthy as a factor, but I view Casas- a potential big bat we both think the teams needed sorely and still do, is the real China doll on teh team.

Thats fair.  But personally, I wasnt going to prioritize keeping Casas healthy over Devers.  

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Thats fair.  But personally, I wasnt going to prioritize keeping Casas healthy over Devers.  

Crystal ball, yes, keep Devers healthy at all costs, but I think 1B is pretty safe. The previous Devers injuries and defensive shortcomings had to do with his arm and shoulder. Casas gets hurt swinging a bat or running to 1B. His risk seemed far more probable.

Maybe I'm too high on Casas' bat. I was almost as gah-gah on Dalbec, but Bobby D never came near the Casas MLB OBP. Casas averages about 33 HRs per 650 from 2023-2024 while still getting on base near 36% of the time.

We needed Devers AND Casas to get the power we  both wanted. We ended up with neither and it hurt us.

Anthony gave us a boost, but not with power, and then he got hurt.

[jdc69]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

All true, but how well did that work out? Look at all the rings the Yanks got with a better defensive SS playing 3B.

Just play your best batters at the positions that are best for the team and stop pampering your stars with the greatest seniority.

When it comes to clutch, Jeter WAS better. And there was no one more pampered and ungrateful for it than Arod. 

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

When it comes to clutch, Jeter WAS better. And there was no one more pampered and ungrateful for it than Arod. 

He coulda been clutch as a 2Bman.

BTW....

Career

Jeter .817 OPS/ .809 High Leverage/.776 Late & Close

ARod: .930 OPS/ .952 High Leverage/.869 Late & Close

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He coulda been clutch as a 2Bman.

BTW....

Career

Jeter .817 OPS/ .809 High Leverage/.776 Late & Close

ARod: .930 OPS/ .952 High Leverage/.869 Late & Close

ARod was also the more famous baserunner:

 -- most playoff games slapping a ball out of the pitcher's glove,

-- most times yelling at opposing infielders to drop pop-ups.

[jdc69]

36 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He coulda been clutch as a 2Bman.

BTW....

Career

Jeter .817 OPS/ .809 High Leverage/.776 Late & Close

ARod: .930 OPS/ .952 High Leverage/.869 Late & Close

Thats a pretty wide stat. Whats does high leverage constitute? ARod was on a team with Ken Griffey and Randy Johnson as well as Edgar Martinez and couldn't get past the Yankees. How much of those stats are from his time with the Rangers? He was actually awesome with them...in last place. I seem to remember him choking in clutch moments with Yanks. 

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

Thats a pretty wide stat. Whats does high leverage constitute? ARod was on a team with Ken Griffey and Randy Johnson as well as Edgar Martinez and couldn't get past the Yankees. How much of those stats are from his time with the Rangers? He was actually awesome with them...in last place. I seem to remember him choking in clutch moments with Yanks. 

It's their career wide stats.

Okay, how about when it REALY counted?

World Series:

.973 ARod

.832 Jeter (Yes, 6 more series than Arod)

ALCS:

.981 ARod

.751 Jeter (yes, 4 more series than ARod)

[drewski6]

Yes, Jeter is a myth. Most overrated player of all time. Give me AROD all day.  All day.  I have no respect for Jeter. I do have respect for AROD

[Kimmi]

23 hours ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think, and definitely not sure there was any discussion whatsoever between Cora, and Bogey about Bogey moving off SS to accommodate Story. Cora is pretty loyal to his players, and especially Bogey, and Bogey was the Red Sox SS, and i wouldn’t blame Bogey one bit for not even wanting to move to another position for an outsider. No discussion whatsoever IMO.

We'll have to agree to disagree, on both counts.  I understand that players want to stay at their current positions.  I get that completely.  However, I don't think I'll ever agree with a player not being willing to do whatever the team needs him to do.

[Kimmi]

18 hours ago, notin said:

That’s because is was all Casas’ fault!! If he knew how to run to first without crippling himself!
 

(Let’s see who takes this accusation seriously.)

I remember that not too long before Casas injured himself, I made a post about how I didn't like that the big guys (Devers and Casas) could get away with not running hard down to first base every time.  (Verdugo was benched for it, if I'm not mistaken.)  Well, now we know why they don't run hard.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

We'll have to agree to disagree, on both counts.  I understand that players want to stay at their current positions.  I get that completely.  However, I don't think I'll ever agree with a player not being willing to do whatever the team needs him to do.

For real.

What baffles me about this is that there is no report of anyone in the organization actually asking him if he'd play 1B.

[Kimmi]

5 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

All true, but how well did that work out? Look at all the rings the Yanks got with a better defensive SS playing 3B.

Just play your best batters at the positions that are best for the team and stop pampering your stars with the greatest seniority.

Amen.  Jeter should have moved to 3B for ARod.  Set your ego aside and do what's best for the team.

[Kimmi]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

For real.

What baffles me about this is that there is no report of anyone in the organization actually asking him if he'd play 1B.

I've seen reports that Breslow asked him to play 1B, and Devers said no.

[drewski6]

My buddy is a yankee fan , and he asked me: are there any yankees / former yankees that you like/respect?

And Im like, of course!

Best yankee of all time: Kevin Youkilis. I also like Boggs, Clemens (Ive forgiven him), Ellsbury took a lot of money from you guys, love that.  Eovaldi def up there among my fave yanks all time.  Bellhorn had a stint there. David Cone I remember played one year on the sox , throw him on the list.  Franchy Cordero was worse for you than he was for us, plus he use to wear celtics jerseys, so that gets points with me.  Id have a beer with Andrew Miller.  I even have a player who I recently added to my list of yanks/former yanks who I like - Aroldis Chapman!  Add Navraez too.  

Least fave yankees of all time: Joba chamberlain, Jeter, Posada,

[drewski6]

I really hate Joba though, he stands alone.