Article: Red Sox President of Baseball Operations Craig Breslow: "We Are Taking Meaningful Steps"

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually what you said - which I believe to be absolutely true and well-stated - is a fancy way of stating “they want to save money.”

Yes they want to win cheaply, but recent history has shown they will sacrifice winning before they sacrifice cheaply…

I don't think it has to do with Henry being cheap. I bet he lives a luxurious lifestyle and would pick up the tab if we all went out. I think he just wants to look smart and to do that he can't be uncouth and simply buy players by outspending everyone else. Winning is important, but he wants to be seen as the brainiac who won, rather than the billionaire who paid for a championship.

[Hitch]

11 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually what you said - which I believe to be absolutely true and well-stated - is a fancy way of stating “they want to save money.”

Yes they want to win cheaply, but recent history has shown they will sacrifice winning before they sacrifice cheaply…

Fair, but the Soto scenario shows they will go very big if they think the value is there. I think there's a tendency to paint them as cheap, for cheap's sake. But they're arrogant. That's their real downfall, this ingrained belief that they can outthink the rest of the league. With little to no evidence to back it up. 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Fair, but the Soto scenario shows they will go very big if they think the value is there. I think there's a tendency to paint them as cheap, for cheap's sake. But they're arrogant. That's their real downfall, this ingrained belief that they can outthink the rest of the league. With little to no evidence to back it up. 

Actually, they only bid on Soto to appease the fans and drive the price up. Ownership knew that they were never going to sign him. 🤑

[moonslav59]

If they came out and said, we are looking to save money and have decided not to overpay on free agents, they might lose some fans and viewers, so they just keep that a secret, as "best" they can.

I do think they have a very strict valuing system in place, but someone decides, when it's okay to go over that amount and by how much. It is a team philosophy on "overpaying" that all GMs and owners face.

We have chose to change our approach, but we won't admit it.

[Zippo102]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Actually, they only bid on Soto to appease the fans and drive the price up. Ownership knew that they were never going to sign him. 🤑

Agreed. It's easy to throw a number out there knowing no matter what, there is a team sitting there waiting to outbid everyone.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If they came out and said, we are looking to save money and have decided not to overpay on free agents, they might lose some fans and viewers, so they just keep that a secret, as "best" they can.

I do think they have a very strict valuing system in place, but someone decides, when it's okay to go over that amount and by how much. It is a team philosophy on "overpaying" that all GMs and owners face.

We have chose to change our approach, but we won't admit it.

At the moment, they don't really care about losing a few fans. So far, Fenway keeps getting filled up with AWAY fans when Sox fans stay home. Not many people are going to forgo NESN because of one bad Sox season. The past few years haven't impacted their pockets and probably wouldn't for many years. 

It's "America's Most Beloved Ballpark!" 

[Zippo102]

The reality of it is the Red Sox are sitting around waiting for a good deal, but that is not where today's market is. If he is a good player and someone you want on your roster, you have to overpay for them or someone else will. This is something that they refuse to do and why we are the interest kings.

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, Zippo102 said:

The reality of it is the Red Sox are sitting around waiting for a good deal, but that is not where today's market is. If he is a good player and someone you want on your roster, you have to overpay for them or someone else will. This is something that they refuse to do and why we are the interest kings.

They were comfortable on their valuations of David Price (a pitcher over 30!?!?!?), Trevor Story and Masataka Yoshida. They thought 300M to Mookie was an overpay a few years ago. 

They are both the interest kings and the kings of getting pie faced and ruining their once great legacy.

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, Hitch said:

Is it? I think the obvious thing is that Henry and others are obsessed with winning through maximum efficiency. They're numbers and stats guys. They want the perfect team at a good price and believe it should be possible. 

And they have the numbers on their side when it comes to long term/high risk contracts for aging pitchers (and even position players).

They're cheaper and more reserved than they should be, but I don't think saving money is their concern. It's outthinking the rest of the league and being seen as smarter. That's what seems to drive them more than anything.

really? how smart are they when they finish middle to the bottom of the pack every year?

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, Zippo102 said:

The reality of it is the Red Sox are sitting around waiting for a good deal, but that is not where today's market is. If he is a good player and someone you want on your roster, you have to overpay for them or someone else will. This is something that they refuse to do and why we are the interest kings.

Exactly. They very well may have signed Soto, if it was at their price, even if it may have been double price's deal, so in that sense, they may not be lying, when they say they are prepared to spend big.

If they never set a price at or above market value, however, they will never sign anyone. The did with Beuhler, Chapman and Wilson, as they seem to really like the lower risk, one year deals.

I'm sure almost every team that has signed a large & long deal, knows or feels like they paid more than they felt the guy was worth, but the realized the need was so great, it was worth it. We do not get to that point, anymore, on anything longer than 2 years. Yoshida and Story are the only FAs signed to 3+ years in a long time.

[Hitch]

5 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

really? how smart are they when they finish middle to the bottom of the pack every year?

I'm not sure you understood my point if you want me to give a personal summation on if they're smart people or not. 

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

really? how smart are they when they finish middle to the bottom of the pack every year?

They see first in the farm rankings and pop the champaign.

 

[Duran Is The Man]

3 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I'm not sure you understood my point if you want me to give a personal summation on if they're smart people or not. 

i understood (and agree) with what you said. i'm just saying that the results don't support them "being smart".

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i understood (and agree) with what you said. i'm just saying that the results don't support them "being smart".

To them, smart is cashing the big profit checks.

[mvp 78]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If they never set a price at or above market value, however, they will never sign anyone. The did with Beuhler, Chapman and Wilson, as they seem to really like the lower risk, one year deals.

Low risk, low reward with those three contracts. 

[mvp 78]

29 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

To them, smart is cashing the big profit checks.

Nope, that's a secondary affect of what they are doing though. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Nope, that's a secondary affect of what they are doing though. 

I disagree. I think they believe they are being smart by making big profits and fooling enough fans to keep buying the product, despite it becoming more and more inferior.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Low risk, low reward with those three contracts. 

I'm not so sure the rewards have to be "low."

[Hitch]

2 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i understood (and agree) with what you said. i'm just saying that the results don't support them "being smart".

There's little evidence of it in recent times that for sure. 

[Hitch]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I disagree. I think they believe they are being smart by making big profits and fooling enough fans to keep buying the product, despite it becoming more and more inferior.

Do you really believe that? I mean, really? Come on now.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

Do you really believe that? I mean, really? Come on now.

I did not say I believe they are smart. I said the believe they are smart.

They think the "sham" is working, and is many ways it is, since they are making money hand over fist, despite an inferior product being sold.

Tell me why you think they believe they are dumb.

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I did not say I believe they are smart. I said the believe they are smart.

They think the "sham" is working, and is many ways it is, since they are making money hand over fist, despite an inferior product being sold.

Tell me why you think they believe they are dumb.

You've missed my point. I'm not commenting on whether you believe they are dumb or not (surely only a fool would answer yes), my point is you're saying that they are actively sitting there, gleeful over the fact they're spending less while getting fans to come along and watch an inferior product. 

What do you think is more likely -

They have been making bad decisions and taking wrong turns while thinking they're edging towards the way they believe is the right way?

They are twiddling their thumbs and laughing evilly to the sky because the fans have yet to see (not true in itself) that they are hoodwinking them?

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

To them, smart is cashing the big profit checks.

EXACTLY!

[Bellhorn04]

48 minutes ago, Hitch said:

You've missed my point. I'm not commenting on whether you believe they are dumb or not (surely only a fool would answer yes), my point is you're saying that they are actively sitting there, gleeful over the fact they're spending less while getting fans to come along and watch an inferior product. 

What do you think is more likely -

They have been making bad decisions and taking wrong turns while thinking they're edging towards the way they believe is the right way?

They are twiddling their thumbs and laughing evilly to the sky because the fans have yet to see (not true in itself) that they are hoodwinking them?

We're in a position of trying to reconcile the facts that:

a) They are the #3 team in franchise market value and annual gross revenue, according to Forbes 2024 annual Business of Baseball report (and those rankings have been steady for years), and 

b) As of now they are out of the top ten in team payroll for the third year in a row.  

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not so sure the rewards have to be "low."

That's what the adage "low risk, low reward" means.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

You've missed my point. I'm not commenting on whether you believe they are dumb or not (surely only a fool would answer yes), my point is you're saying that they are actively sitting there, gleeful over the fact they're spending less while getting fans to come along and watch an inferior product. 

What do you think is more likely -

They have been making bad decisions and taking wrong turns while thinking they're edging towards the way they believe is the right way?

They are twiddling their thumbs and laughing evilly to the sky because the fans have yet to see (not true in itself) that they are hoodwinking them?

Well, I highlighted the section I think is applicable. 

[Hitch]

54 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We're in a position of trying to reconcile the facts that:

a) They are the #3 team in franchise market value and annual gross revenue, according to Forbes 2024 annual Business of Baseball report (and those rankings have been steady for years), and 

b) As of now they are out of the top ten in team payroll for the third year in a row.  

Okay but that has nothing to do with my question to Moon.

We're all under agreement that they should be spending more.

[Hitch]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Well, I highlighted the section I think is applicable. 

Huh?

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I disagree. I think they believe they are being smart by making big profits and fooling enough fans to keep buying the product, despite it becoming more and more inferior.

There's no "fooling." I'm going to buy the product until they are deserving of me passing them over. I think many of us see that there is a long term play here, which is why they built up the farm system in the first place. Should they be going over the CBT every other year in the mean time? Yes. That was purely the fault of the CBO. Breslow at least spent roughly what Bloom did but had a team that was more entertaining to watch and ended the season at least in shouting distance of the playoffs. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

Huh?

I underlined the part about them making bad decisions and wrong turns while on a path of eventually succeeding. That's what I believe they are trying to do.