Red Sox Spring Training

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Yeah I never understood how they measured a 500 foot homerun in 1962.  But again I saw where that transformer was on the roof at Tiger Stadium that Reggie Jackson hit.  We just don't see moon shots like that anymore and if the players are so much stronger then how can we explain this? 

It can't be the ball, home run totals in 2024 were far higher than they were in 1971 yet we don't see the big bombs like we used to.  

They designed the new balls to go from 375 to 475 and no further.

LOL

[Hugh2]

13 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Basketball players get 24 seconds in between every basket, as you probably know. Giving them 15 seconds would ruin the game. You don't even have to get it across half court until 10 seconds are up.

The shot clock resets yes, but it's not like they stand around for 24 seconds and wait to move. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

This is why I keep asking.  I SAW where Reggie hit that home run in the All Star Game. I saw Frank Howard hitting home runs to places that just aren't reached today.  A quick search showed me several articles that claim there have been no significant changes to the basebal since 1971 and home run totals are up dramatically today.  So this is puzzling to me.  

The only other factor I can think of is that pitchers didn't throw nearly as hard back then, so maybe that resulted in more "meatball" pitches that were easier to launch. 

[Hugh2]

9 hours ago, jad said:

Statements such as "studies have shown" or "experts say" are not data.  If they don't cite and describe the study (or 'experts'), they don't even rise to the level of 'secondary sourced anecdote.'  There has only been one study cited here, I think.  And it can be critiqued if anyone is so inclined.   Otherwise, it's just "Back in aught-6, I was talking to my cousin, who told me of a guy who ..."

They've done studies on what people think about studies. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

The shot clock resets yes, but it's not like they stand around for 24 seconds and wait to move. 

There's just no comparison between throwing a baseball in the high 90's and shooting a basketball.  Steph Curry could probably shoot basketballs 500 times a day every day.

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Yeah I never understood how they measured a 500 foot homerun in 1962.  But again I saw where that transformer was on the roof at Tiger Stadium that Reggie Jackson hit.  We just don't see moon shots like that anymore and if the players are so much stronger then how can we explain this? 

It can't be the ball, home run totals in 2024 were far higher than they were in 1971 yet we don't see the big bombs like we used to.  

If Tiger Stadium still existed, we'd see balls up there. The fact of the matter is that the stadiums have all changed so it's not an apples to apples comparison. Manny hit some moonshots in TOR from what I remember. I wonder what that would have looked like at Tiger Stadium? 

I think the numbers are probably just more accurate now. It's like how people are trying to say that Nolan Ryan was the hardest thrower of all time and if guys today throw 105, he must have thrown 110. It's the "things were better back then" nonsense that we deal with all the time. 

https://www.mlb.com/video/aaron-judge-s-10-longest-homers-of-his-career

Manny Ramirez TOR 5th deck

Manny Ramirez Upper Deck Yankee Stadium

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

There's just no comparison between throwing a baseball in the high 90's and shooting a basketball.  Steph Curry could probably shoot basketballs 500 times a day every day.

He probably does.

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

This is why I keep asking.  I SAW where Reggie hit that home run in the All Star Game. I saw Frank Howard hitting home runs to places that just aren't reached today.  A quick search showed me several articles that claim there have been no significant changes to the basebal since 1971 and home run totals are up dramatically today.  So this is puzzling to me.  

Howard played at stadiums that don't exist today.

In its ten seasons as the Senators' home field, RFK Stadium was known as a hitters' park, aided by the stagnant heat (and humidity) of Washington summers. Slugger Frank Howard, (6 ft 7 in (2.01 m), 255 lb (116 kg)), hit a number of "tape-measure" home runs, a few of which landed in the center field area of the upper deck. 

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

They've done studies on what people think about studies. 

...and studies on the people who contemplate studies.

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

There's just no comparison between throwing a baseball in the high 90's and shooting a basketball.  Steph Curry could probably shoot basketballs 500 times a day every day.

I beg to differ, I think my comparison has been misunderstood. 

Elbow flexion is elbow flexion, 65% max heart rate is 65% max heart rate, maximum effort is maximum effort.  Whether you're sprinting up the court or sprinting towards a line drive if you're going 100% your body is it's ATP-PC & Lactic acid system for that short burst of energy. so on and so forth.  Your body doesn't differentiate, it's the function of the movement that determines the risk regardless of what we call the sport.  Jumping is jumping, running is running, diving is diving; on a physiological level the body does not discriminate.

Obviously the nature of each sport is different, and puts strains on the human body in different ways; in basketball ankle sprains are much more common for example.  

Now just like in basketball how someone could tired from running up and down the court all day I could buy the possibility that shorter periods of rest could tire an arm out quicker.  However, I see many pitching injuries as chronic injuries resulting from years and years of unnatural movement, they're not an acute sports injury like rolling an ankle.  I think shorter periods of time between pitches just tires pitchers out quicker, and in turn might actually preserve their arms in the long run if it leads to lower pitch counts. I'd be interesting if any studies actually show this in the future that the pitch clock actually curves the rise in injury.  However this is purely a hypothesis on my part. 

We've clearly seen a dramatic spike in injuries the past couple decades (especially just the last) that correlates and has been corroborated with studies showing it to be a function of throwing harder and an uptick that started well before the pitch clock.  I'm open to possibly being wrong, but until there's evidence that's more than just anecdotal that's how I feel. 

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He probably does.

shooting a basketball isn't max effort, but jumping 40-48 inches vertically off the ground is. And they do that after running up the court as opposed to at rest (which actually might make jumping with max effort more safe for a short duration of time until one fatigues)

[notin]

22 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

There's just no comparison between throwing a baseball in the high 90's and shooting a basketball.  Steph Curry could probably shoot basketballs 500 times a day every day.

Sure if he cut down…

[Bellhorn04]

28 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I beg to differ, I think my comparison has been misunderstood. 

Elbow flexion is elbow flexion, 65% max heart rate is 65% max heart rate, maximum effort is maximum effort.  Whether you're sprinting up the court or sprinting towards a line drive if you're going 100% your body is it's ATP-PC & Lactic acid system for that short burst of energy. so on and so forth.  Your body doesn't differentiate, it's the function of the movement that determines the risk regardless of what we call the sport.  Jumping is jumping, running is running, diving is diving; on a physiological level the body does not discriminate.

Obviously the nature of each sport is different, and puts strains on the human body in different ways; in basketball ankle sprains are much more common for example. 

Throwing a baseball at high speed and spin rates is different from any other sports movement, I have to think, in the amount of damage it causes on a widespread level. 

[Hugh2]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Throwing a baseball at high speed and spin rates is different from any other sports movement, I have to think, in the amount of damage it causes on a widespread level. 

Exactly

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Howard played at stadiums that don't exist today.

In its ten seasons as the Senators' home field, RFK Stadium was known as a hitters' park, aided by the stagnant heat (and humidity) of Washington summers. Slugger Frank Howard, (6 ft 7 in (2.01 m), 255 lb (116 kg)), hit a number of "tape-measure" home runs, a few of which landed in the center field area of the upper deck. 

I grew up going to DC Stadium, later named RFK.  The dimensions were 335 LF, 380 LC, 408 to straightaway center.  Today Camden Yards, even with the LF now backed up and with the same hot humid weather, is actually a little smaller.  333 LF, 376 LC and 400 to straightaway center.  And the warehouse, which stands 439 feet from home plate, has only been hit once and that was in batting practice.  

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I grew up going to DC Stadium, later named RFK.  The dimensions were 335 LF, 380 LC, 408 to straightaway center.  Today Camden Yards, even with the LF now backed up and with the same hot humid weather, is actually a little smaller.  333 LF, 376 LC and 400 to straightaway center.  And the warehouse, which stands 439 feet from home plate, has only been hit once and that was in batting practice.  

Ask Wade Boggs how adding the 406 club impacted the ball at Fenway. Just because there are two ballparks in 100 miles of one another, doesn't make it an apples to apples comparison. RFK had a high roof that went all around the ballpark. Camden Yards is out by the water and completely open. Physics will impact a ball's trajectory uniquely at each ballpark. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

If Tiger Stadium still existed, we'd see balls up there. The fact of the matter is that the stadiums have all changed so it's not an apples to apples comparison. Manny hit some moonshots in TOR from what I remember. I wonder what that would have looked like at Tiger Stadium? 

I think the numbers are probably just more accurate now. It's like how people are trying to say that Nolan Ryan was the hardest thrower of all time and if guys today throw 105, he must have thrown 110. It's the "things were better back then" nonsense that we deal with all the time. 

https://www.mlb.com/video/aaron-judge-s-10-longest-homers-of-his-career

Manny Ramirez TOR 5th deck

Manny Ramirez Upper Deck Yankee Stadium

Bob Feller threw so hard his throw once beat a motorcycle cop to the finish line. On the video I couldn't tell if the officer dug his spurs in on the nag, but the narrator said their speed was "NINETY MILES AN HOUR!"

 

 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Bob Feller threw so hard his throw once beat a motorcycle cop to the finish line. On the video I couldn't tell if the officer dug his spurs in on the nag, but the narrator said their speed was "NINETY MILES AN HOUR!"

 

 

That cop's Statcast page is all blue for sure. 

[notin]

5 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Yeah I never understood how they measured a 500 foot homerun in 1962.  But again I saw where that transformer was on the roof at Tiger Stadium that Reggie Jackson hit.  We just don't see moon shots like that anymore and if the players are so much stronger then how can we explain this? 

It can't be the ball, home run totals in 2024 were far higher than they were in 1971 yet we don't see the big bombs like we used to.  

Certainly not like in the 1990’s when Jose Canseco summoned the power of Stanislozol to reach the 4th deck in Toronto.

But as mentioned, legends pervade.  Like Adam Dunn homering into Kentucky or Steve Dalkowski throwing over 110mph…

[mvp 78]

Mantle's 565' blast:

The ball cleared Fifth Street directly behind the left field wall and proceeded to roll until finally stopping 565-feet from home plate in the backyard of 434 Oakdale Street a few blocks down.

Ruth's 575' blast:

They combed hundreds of newspaper accounts from the days afterward and found that the majority of the stories put the actual distance in the 550-560 foot range -- with the Boston Globe's Mel Webb having the most accurate depiction. He was the only writer to actually go out and measure the distance of the ball from home plate. Webb walked all the way out to right-center field, foot after foot, to where, for some reason, a security guard had marked the ball's final resting spot with a pile of stones.

“I measured the distance covered by Babe’s homer yesterday, making it in 179 strides of slightly more than a yard. The boost was certainly better than 540 feet.”

Why can't stadiums be built so that balls can just roll an extra 100' as measured by a team publicist or sports reporter?

[mvp 78]

Longest Home Runs: Pre-Statcast Era 
1: Babe Ruth, New York Yankees - 575 feet (1921)*
2: Mickey Mantle, New York Yankees - 565 feet (1953)*
3: Reggie Jackson, Oakland Athletics - 539 feet (1971)
4 (tie): Adam Dunn, Cincinnati Reds - 535 feet (2004)
4 (tie): Willie Stargell, Pittsburgh Pirates - 535 feet (1978)
6: Dave Kingman, New York Mets - 530 feet (1976)
7: Darryl Strawberry, New York Mets - 525 feet (1988)
8: Jim Thome, Cleveland Indians - 511 feet (1999)
9: Mo Vaughn, New York Mets - 505 feet (2002)
10 (tie): Joe Borchard, Chicago White Sox - 504 feet (2004)
10 (tie): Adam Dunn, Arizona Diamondbacks - 504 feet (2008)

No Frank Howard?

*distance after ball rolled for a while and maybe carried by a local stray animal

[jad]

Here are a couple more, both with conclusions that counter many statements made here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298909145_Injury_Trends_in_Major_League_Baseball_Over_18_Seasons_1998-2015/link/5865731308ae329d620459e1/download?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIn19

This one shows a steady rise in injuries well before institution of pitch clock.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0972978X24002460

This one addresses the exact question raised here: has the pitch clock resulted in more injuries?  Again, the conclusion is the same as in all studies I've looked at.  NO.   

(But, you know, I mean science is, you know, not real, as my cousin Vinnie, whose friend had an uncle who was really into sports, used to say when he was wasted enough.)

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Longest Home Runs: Pre-Statcast Era 
1: Babe Ruth, New York Yankees - 575 feet (1921)*
2: Mickey Mantle, New York Yankees - 565 feet (1953)*
3: Reggie Jackson, Oakland Athletics - 539 feet (1971)
4 (tie): Adam Dunn, Cincinnati Reds - 535 feet (2004)
4 (tie): Willie Stargell, Pittsburgh Pirates - 535 feet (1978)
6: Dave Kingman, New York Mets - 530 feet (1976)
7: Darryl Strawberry, New York Mets - 525 feet (1988)
8: Jim Thome, Cleveland Indians - 511 feet (1999)
9: Mo Vaughn, New York Mets - 505 feet (2002)
10 (tie): Joe Borchard, Chicago White Sox - 504 feet (2004)
10 (tie): Adam Dunn, Arizona Diamondbacks - 504 feet (2008)

No Frank Howard?

*distance after ball rolled for a while and maybe carried by a local stray animal

I saw Kingman hit one out of Wrigley that went across the street, bounced in a driveway and hit the side of a  house.  The owner came out to retrieve the ball.  I think it was on a Game of the Week.  Kingman could launch them.

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I saw Kingman hit one out of Wrigley that went across the street, bounced in a driveway and hit the side of a  house.  The owner came out to retrieve the ball.  I think it was on a Game of the Week.  Kingman could launch them.

Almost every decade has had a guy who could launch 500' hr's. It's just that the measurement systems and fields are completely different from one era to another. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Longest Home Runs: Pre-Statcast Era 
1: Babe Ruth, New York Yankees - 575 feet (1921)*
2: Mickey Mantle, New York Yankees - 565 feet (1953)*
3: Reggie Jackson, Oakland Athletics - 539 feet (1971)
4 (tie): Adam Dunn, Cincinnati Reds - 535 feet (2004)
4 (tie): Willie Stargell, Pittsburgh Pirates - 535 feet (1978)
6: Dave Kingman, New York Mets - 530 feet (1976)
7: Darryl Strawberry, New York Mets - 525 feet (1988)
8: Jim Thome, Cleveland Indians - 511 feet (1999)
9: Mo Vaughn, New York Mets - 505 feet (2002)
10 (tie): Joe Borchard, Chicago White Sox - 504 feet (2004)
10 (tie): Adam Dunn, Arizona Diamondbacks - 504 feet (2008)

No Frank Howard?

*distance after ball rolled for a while and maybe carried by a local stray animal

Only 1 after 2004 and none after 2008, makes the question about why no more mammouth shots a good  Q.

[jad]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Only 1 after 2004 and none after 2008, makes the question about why no more mammouth shots a good  Q.

I'm guessing (and it's only that) that baseballs are more precisely made and tested today?  'Back in the day' (whenever that was), there was likely a greater margin of error and occasionally one of these big boppers got into a livelier outlier?   (Of course I have no evidence whatsoever for this, other than the image in my mind of an exploited worker bending over to pull some stitches tight. Maybe every now and then, for her 1.75/hour, she said, 'damn it, I've putting a little extra on this puppy ...')

[notin]

56 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I saw Kingman hit one out of Wrigley that went across the street, bounced in a driveway and hit the side of a  house.  The owner came out to retrieve the ball.  I think it was on a Game of the Week.  Kingman could launch them.

Kinsman’s blast was in the famous 23-22 game, one that gets replayed often.  It was his third of the day, but there were a slew of home runs that day.

But there most legendary Wrigley home run was off the bat of Glenallen Hill back in 2000.  Distance estimates vary from 490 to 510 feet all the way up to 700 feet (by Hill himself).  While probably a bit under his own estimate, Hill did reach one of the rooftops across the street that had never been reached before in the history of the ballpark…

[mvp 78]

35 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Only 1 after 2004 and none after 2008, makes the question about why no more mammouth shots a good  Q.

Statcast era is more accurate. Also, the Statcast era hr's were clearly excluded from that list per the list's title. 

Of the top ten Statcast Hr's, three have been above 500: 

1. Nomar Mazara, Texas Rangers - 505 feet (2019)
On June 21st, 2019, Mazara smashed a 94.7 mile-per-hour fastball from Reynaldo Lopéz in a game against the White Sox- setting the Statcast era record for the longest home run ever.
2 (tie). C.J. Cron, Colorado Rockies - 504 feet (2022) 
Three years after Mazara, Cron unloaded a 504-foot rocket against the Diamondbacks on September 9th, 2022. It is the longest measured home run in Coors Field history.
2 (tie). Giancarlo Stanton, Miami Marlins - 504 feet (2016)
Six years prior to Cron, Stanton hit a homer for the same distance against the Rockies, with it being the first 500-foot homer in the Statcast era.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The home run that went farther than any was hit by Jim Rice over the Green Monster, Lansdowne Street, and the Cask N Flagon. It supposedly landed in the bed of a truck in the westbound lane of the Mass. Turnpike and was found at a loading dock somewhere in New Jersey. 

At least that's how I remembered Hawk Harrelson describing it in the mid-1970s.

[Larry Cook]

If you are a pitcher at the Red Sox spring training camp and your last name starts with a vowel, you probably should be pitching for Worcester or the Yankees