Article: Nolan Arenado Makes Sense for the Red Sox (If They Make the Right Trade)

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Not denying that, but maybe guys played hurt more, while teams had less invested in them -- thus, less inclination to "take care of them." Players weren't set for life and didn't want to risk losing their jobs.

Yaz always played hurt, taping up injuries and adjusting stances and swings; he got booed when his production cratered in the early 70s, but he was at half-mast.

Rice was always in the line-up, but Lynn got grief for missing games for being too fragile.

Fragile Freddy.  Fans have zero sympathy for guys who get hurt by playing hard.  But they also hate loafers.

[notin]

One factor is the increase in injuries could be that steroids are no longer as widespread as they used to be…

[drewski6]

41 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Old guy rant, but last century most preseason outlooks began with, "If our pitching stays healthy..."

Nowadays, every Red Sox winter always seems to start with, "IF EVERYTHING WORKS OUT PERFECTLY..."

... modern athletes are just bigger, stronger, more easily injured. It's why teams try to develop multi-positional players (and not Franchys, looking to contrive a position they may be competent at MLB levels).

Guys like Rafaela and hopefully Campbell have even more roster value than we can imagine. 

Basketball has gone in the same direction. Obsessing over positions is so last year. Its all about athleticism and versatility now.  Baseball is a notoriously late adapter.  This is a pretty savvy group but Im sure there are oodles of baseball old heads still repeating cliches, e.g. "guys get better when they know where they are hitting and where they are playing everyday" which pretty much translates to: "I dont know how to play matchups , so I wont"

[drewski6]

And by the way we are at the beginning of the "versatility > consistency" philosophical mindset. Its going to get wilder. Much wilder.

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

One factor is the increase in injuries could be that steroids are no longer as widespread as they used to be…

I think you would need to flesh out that point a bit.

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, drewski6 said:

And by the way we are at the beginning of the "versatility > consistency" philosophical mindset. Its going to get wilder. Much wilder.

I could use some elaboration on this point too! 🙂

[drewski6]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

I think you would need to flesh out that point a bit.

Steroids are anti-inflammatories

[drewski6]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

I could use some elaboration on this point too! 🙂

You are going to see more Zobrists , more Brock Holts, more swiss army knives.  Less: you cant put a SS at RF, what are you crazy?!?! Players are going to try to be more versatile on their come-up too.  Different positions in college as opposed to the best one always plays SS, because they want to get themselves ready for the pros.

[drewski6]

And even more Ohtanis are coming.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, notin said:

He  could also win it if we don’t deal him

If we don't deal him, he may get injured. It's a real Sophie's choice.

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, drewski6 said:

Steroids are anti-inflammatories

I think the real question is, do steroids ever prevent injuries?

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

You are going to see more Zobrists , more Brock Holts, more swiss army knives.  Less: you cant put a SS at RF, what are you crazy?!?! Players are going to try to be more versatile on their come-up too.  Different positions in college as opposed to the best one always plays SS, because they want to get themselves ready for the pros.

If that's what they want on the bench, Campbell makes 1,000,000 X more sense than Grissom. 

[Duran Is The Man]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

He certainly does.

Despite my prediction the Sox will eventually be the “someone” that signs Bregman, 2b seems like the least of their issues due to the depth of options.  Even if Grissom, Hamilton, etc. dont pan out, they at least have Campbell.

i wish they would sign Bregman as i have a gut feeling that this is Raffy's year to miss significant playing time from injuries. 

or maybe it's just gas. 

[drewski6]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

I think the real question is, do steroids ever prevent injuries?

Yes.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

And even more Ohtanis are coming.

Now I think you're getting a little excitable.

It remains to be seen if Ohtani can even continue pitching.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think the real question is, do steroids ever prevent injuries?

Nelson Cruz had a pretty healthy career. 

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If that's what they want on the bench, Campbell makes 1,000,000 X more sense than Grissom. 

Campbell, I think is the most likely prospect to win a shot as a major league everyday contributor.  Partly for this reason, but also cuz hes right-handed.  I think his versatility will certainly help him get to MLB quicker.  But Im not 100% they'll want him in a bench role, maybe as a supersub, but one who gets into considerably more games than not.

Im not old school on very many things, but one cliche I do agree with is you dont want your top prospects sitting on your bench (but actually, Im not as against it as most because its not like your coaches cant work with them just because they are not everyday starters)

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure we need "everything" to go right, as we seemed to need in past years, but we do need a lot to go right.

I think our depth offers a better shot at being competitive, if a couple guys go sour or get hurt, and remember, last year Criswell was "depth," and some viewed Houck as the 6th starter. DHam was an afterthought and maybe the 3rd or 4th guy we tried at 2B, after grissom, E Valdez and Reyes. Rafaela was a big unknown and finished 3rd on the team in PAs. Some did not view Abreu as a serious RF option, and one poster talked about how bad it was "watching him kick the ball around RF." Ref had another solid year vs LHPs and even the midseason pick-up of D Smith helped ease the major 1B issues we had. Jansen did fine replacing McGuire, too.

I Campbell, Joely, Chase Anderson and Weissert began the season in the pen. Zack Kelly had more IP than all but Weissert. About 6 others had more IP than Joely and 8 more than I Campbell.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

48 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Steroids are anti-inflammatories

But also inflamous for inflammatory acne 

[drewski6]

 

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure we need "everything" to go right, as we seemed to need in past years, but we do need a lot to go right.

I think our depth offers a better shot at being competitive, if a couple guys go sour or get hurt, and remember, last year Criswell was "depth," and some viewed Houck as the 6th starter. DHam was an afterthought and maybe the 3rd or 4th guy we tried at 2B, after grissom, E Valdez and Reyes. Rafaela was a big unknown and finished 3rd on the team in PAs. Some did not view Abreu as a serious RF option, and one poster talked about how bad it was "watching him kick the ball around RF." Ref had another solid year vs LHPs and even the midseason pick-up of D Smith helped ease the major 1B issues we had. Jansen did fine replacing McGuire, too.

I Campbell, Joely, Chase Anderson and Weissert began the season in the pen. Zack Kelly had more IP than all but Weissert. About 6 others had more IP than Joely and 8 more than I Campbell.

Depends on your goals, right? We dont need everything to go right, I dont think, to be a solid team in playoff contention.  But I think we dont have enough hitters to be serious threats. But you never know and there are always in-season acquisitions.

[drewski6]

But I do agree that the depth is a big plus.

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

 

Depends on your goals, right? We dont need everything to go right, I dont think, to be a solid team in playoff contention.  But I think we dont have enough hitters to be serious threats. But you never know and there are always in-season acquisitions.

I think our offense is fine, despite the unbalanced L-R thing. We have depth and the 3 top prospects, so if something does not go right, we have other options, which could end up better than the starter.

I worry most about our pen, catcher defense and something that won't be fixed in 2025: corner IF defense.

We may do something to balance the line-up, but I hope we don't get someone worse than Abreu just for balancing purposes.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I think our offense is fine, despite the unbalanced L-R thing. We have depth and the 3 top prospects, so if something does not go right, we have other options, which could end up better than the starter.

I worry most about our pen, catcher defense and something that won't be fixed in 2025: corner IF defense.

We may do something to balance the line-up, but I hope we don't get someone worse than Abreu just for balancing purposes.

Unless its top 3 in MLB, its not fine. 

[drewski6]

Your defense can be fine, your relief pitching can be fine, your back end starters can be fine.

Fine is not acceptable for hitting. 

[mvp 78]

23 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Unless its top 3 in MLB, its not fine. 

2004: 1st in runs

2007: 4th in runs

2013: 1st in runs

2018: 1st in runs

I'm sensing a theme...

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

2004: 1st in runs

2007: 4th in runs

2013: 1st in runs

2018: 1st in runs

I'm sensing a theme...

This guy gets it

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Unless its top 3 in MLB, its not fine. 

I disagree. 

I'd love top 3, but we can win it all by being top 8-10 in batting, middle 10 on defense and top 3 in SP and maybe top 10 in the pen (yeah right) and we may have a good chance.

[mvp 78]

22 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I disagree. 

I'd love top 3, but we can win it all by being top 8-10 in batting, middle 10 on defense and top 3 in SP and maybe top 10 in the pen (yeah right) and we may have a good chance.

Trying to look for a team that matches this description:

2022 HOU: 6th batting, 1st SP, 2nd in RP, 2nd Fielding NOPE

2021 ATL: 7th batting, 13th SP, 13th RP, 15th Fielding Counting on duplicating a team that was below .500 in August is certainly trying to do it on hard mode IMO. 

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

2004: 1st in runs

2007: 4th in runs

2013: 1st in runs

2018: 1st in runs

I'm sensing a theme...

We were top 4 in scoring in many non ring years. It's when we do well in pitching that tips the scales.

ERA- by season in MLB since 2004 rankings

4th in 2004

1st in 2007 

6th in 2013 

2nd in 2018

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We were top 4 in scoring in many non ring years. It's when we do well in pitching that tips the scales.

ERA- by season in MLB since 2004 rankings

4th in 2004

1st in 2007 

6th in 2013 

2nd in 2018

If you want to get the runs to be at the top of the leaderboard and the ERA to be towards the top, I'm game. Now look at the fielding number for those teams.