Rumor: Are The Red Sox Planning To Trade Masataka Yoshida This Offseason?

[Old Red]

29 minutes ago, notin said:

My comeback might be more difficult if the Sox were not 12 games under .500 over the past 3 years..

I know you guys like throwing things out there like wanting Chapman at 3B, but usually when I respond it’s not what I think, but what I think the Red Sox will do, which could be two completely different things . Makes more sense to me.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I’m just saying that I’m not sure he is now, not that he’ll never be one. He can always change my mind. 

Do you think Rafaela did better than you expected in 2024?

Do you think being asked to play so much SS affected his offense, at all?

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, notin said:

My comeback might be more difficult if the Sox were not 12 games under .500 over the past 3 years..

When all else fails, blame hang’em Chaim 

[Hugh2]

Moving Masataka might make less sense than people think. 

He gets written off as a bad player, but he's not bad at all, he's just not good.  If Yoshida was a young cost controlled piece he'd be playing on many teams.  He's an MLB quality player, just not at $18 million dollars a year starting in the outfield. 

No team on earth is going to trade for him unless you're either A.) packaging up a prospect or B.) eating all or most of his money. 

A team that apparently is on a budget can't really afford to eat all his money, because that's money.  I have a hard time seeing John Henry paying Yoshida 18 million to play somewhere else, he could easily end up being a 1-2 War player elsewhere and while that's not exactly a burn, it's not great either. 

Yoshida might be one of those sunk costs where it's either going to really sting moving him, or you just have to live with him as your 4th/5th outfielder and DH.  Which he'd honestly be fine in that role aside from the fact that he's overpaid at $18 million a year and he's a lefty. 

[Hugh2]

As a point of reference, the surplus value that Franklin Arias/Miguel Bleis give you equals out the negative value Yoshida has. 

EDIT: I'm not saying you have to trade those two guys to move him, only outlining it's going to sting if you move him, unless you're comfortable paying another team 14-18 million a year

[mvp 78]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Do you think Rafaela did better than you expected in 2024?

Do you think being asked to play so much SS affected his offense, at all?

His offense fell off a little more than I expected. I thought he’d be around 700 OPS.

[Hugh2]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Do you think Rafaela did better than you expected in 2024?

Do you think being asked to play so much SS affected his offense, at all?

I know you didn't ask me but he did about as well as I expected, and I don't think playing SS affected his offense at all.  He did at the plate what he was advertised to be, and he played some SS in the minors coming up as well. 

If anything, his best fit on this team might be a super utility player/late inning defensive replacement.  And I think he can be a 2 WAR player in that role.  extending him so early was very perplexing to me. 

[Old Red]

32 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Moving Masataka might make less sense than people think. 

He gets written off as a bad player, but he's not bad at all, he's just not good.  If Yoshida was a young cost controlled piece he'd be playing on many teams.  He's an MLB quality player, just not at $18 million dollars a year starting in the outfield. 

No team on earth is going to trade for him unless you're either A.) packaging up a prospect or B.) eating all or most of his money. 

A team that apparently is on a budget can't really afford to eat all his money, because that's money.  I have a hard time seeing John Henry paying Yoshida 18 million to play somewhere else, he could easily end up being a 1-2 War player elsewhere and while that's not exactly a burn, it's not great either. 

Yoshida might be one of those sunk costs where it's either going to really sting moving him, or you just have to live with him as your 4th/5th outfielder and DH.  Which he'd honestly be fine in that role aside from the fact that he's overpaid at $18 million a year and he's a lefty. 

When Bloom jumped on Masa, and shut down the bidding process the Red Sox needed OF, and now they have an abundance. I don’t think the Sox want a FT DH either, so now Masa has become an unwanted problem. Very doubtful he is in any kind of demand, so the Red Sox are stuck with what to do with him. This is what Brez gets paid the big bucks for to figure out.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

9 minutes ago, Old Red said:

When Bloom jumped on Masa, and shut down the bidding process the Red Sox needed OF, and now they have an abundance. I don’t think the Sox want a FT DH either, so now Masa has become an unwanted problem. Very doubtful he is in any kind of demand, so the Red Sox are stuck with what to do with him. This is what Brez gets paid the big bucks for to figure out.

Just Rusney Castillo him -- but send him to Worcester, where he can entertain fans as a lefty-swinging Dalbec, launching fly balls over the close right field wall.

[Bellhorn04]

13 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

The 2025 outfield should be 

LF - Duran 

CF - Rafeala

RF - Anthony 

reserve - refsynder 

Yoshida and abreau are trading chips. 

Abreu is a trading chip.

Yoshida is a salary dump dream.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

His offense fell off a little more than I expected. I thought he’d be around 700 OPS.

You thought .700 before the season, or after he had that nice run to get over .700?

[Hugh2]

39 minutes ago, Old Red said:

When Bloom jumped on Masa, and shut down the bidding process the Red Sox needed OF, and now they have an abundance. I don’t think the Sox want a FT DH either, so now Masa has become an unwanted problem. Very doubtful he is in any kind of demand, so the Red Sox are stuck with what to do with him. This is what Brez gets paid the big bucks for to figure out.

That's a fair recap, however I'm not sure there's anything to figure out.  Unless Brez puts a gun to someone's head and forces them to make an ill decision I think we're stuck with Yoshida, like I said in the absence of paying him to play somewhere else.  I'm not there yet, but ask me again next year and see how I feel. 

At least Yoshida isn't mean, or a bad person, or any type of cancer in the club house.  Nor is he a bad player, he's just not a very good one and is overpaid for what he does.  

I think we are just stuck with him. 

[Hugh2]

22 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Abreu is a trading chip.

Yoshida is a salary dump dream.

Who are you willing to trade with Yoshida to get another team to take on his salary?

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Who are you willing to trade with Yoshida to get another team to take on his salary?

Probably Abreu.

I liked moon's idea of trading Yoshida for Gausman and throwing in some money and/or talent to make it happen.

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Abreu is a trading chip.

Yoshida is a salary dump dream.

Agreed. Not many teams go into the winter thinking they are looking for a DH only player with little power.

Put aside the $18M owed for 3 more years, and ask, what would a team pay him as a free agent for 3 years? That is the probably the "break even" points, as in trade him with cash that evens out that number, and expect nothing in return. I'm guessing other GMs might pay him $3-6M x 3, maybe $7-8M tops. Some may seek to give us a higher-priced player in return to lessen the cash return needed, but that gets complicated.

It's a sad situation, and it's not an easy choice to make. We have a team with two awful defensive corner infielders with some injury histories. It would make a hell of a lot of sense to at least let them DH a dozen or two times a season to get some or more rest, while still keeping their potent bats in the line-up as much as we can. I fully realize this whole idea could be just a pipe dream or something that is years away from happening, but it would improve the team, IMO.

The choice to just keep Yoshida at DH and roll the dice on hopes he can do better as he ages also makes some sense. Why pay a team $10-14M a year to have him hit for them? Just hope he can get over .800 and keep our corner infielders where they are for 3 more years. Is saving $4-8M a year going to get us a helpful player, anyways?

Who knows? Maybe no GM wants him at even $3M a year. We'd probably have to take a bigger contract to even get a GM to listen to us.

Thanks Bloom & Co.!

[Bellhorn04]

Everybody makes mistakes.  It's just that the payroll-tightening trend of the Sox has made the impact of mistakes seem to be magnified.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Probably Abreu.

I liked moon's idea of trading Yoshida for Gausman and throwing in some money and/or talent to make it happen.

If the Red Sox go out, and get pitching I would rather see them get someone younger than Gausman. Toronto has some things to figure out on their own like Vlad Jr, so I don’t see any interest with Masa.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Probably Abreu.

I liked moon's idea of trading Yoshida for Gausman and throwing in some money and/or talent to make it happen.

I'm not sure TOR wants Yoshida, or would like to save more money by trading Gausman for a low cost player, but this may be the only type of Yoshida deal that makes sense.

Of course, I'd prefer we go out and get a younger, cost controlled pitcher, but that would likely cost us a top prospect of someone like Casas.

Abreu, DHam + Winckowski is not getting us that.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

When Bloom jumped on Masa, and shut down the bidding process the Red Sox needed OF, and now they have an abundance. I don’t think the Sox want a FT DH either, so now Masa has become an unwanted problem. Very doubtful he is in any kind of demand, so the Red Sox are stuck with what to do with him. This is what Brez gets paid the big bucks for to figure out.

Why wouldn’t they want a full time DH?

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Probably Abreu.

I liked moon's idea of trading Yoshida for Gausman and throwing in some money and/or talent to make it happen.

I think trading Yoshida might be more difficult due to his offseason surgery…

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Why wouldn’t they want a full time DH?

I’m just guessing to get other players in the lineup. Masa is no JD, Ortiz, or even a Flintstone Schwarber.

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I think trading Yoshida might be more difficult due to his offseason surgery…

Man, injuries really do suck!

[notin]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’m just guessing to get other players in the lineup. Masa is no JD, Ortiz, or even a Flintstone Schwarber.

Upgrading the DH is one thing.  Leaving it as an unfilled position is another.

I understand wanting a better DH.  But not just not wanting one altogether and letting bench players fill the role on a daily basis for 162 games…

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Probably Abreu.

I liked moon's idea of trading Yoshida for Gausman and throwing in some money and/or talent to make it happen.

They're of comparable value, but you're probably getting absolutely nothing in return in that scenario.  A complete low level flier.

Which is fine, but how many wins does this team gain by taking Yoshida and Abreu off the roster?

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Upgrading the DH is one thing.  Leaving it as an unfilled position is another.

I understand wanting a better DH.  But not just not wanting one altogether and letting bench players fill the role on a daily basis for 162 games…

A point on which we agree 100%.

To me life was pretty good when Ortiz was full-time DH!

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

They're of comparable value, but you're probably getting absolutely nothing in return in that scenario.  A complete low level flier.

Which is fine, but how many wins does this team gain by taking Yoshida and Abreu off the roster?

Very fair question.

Gausman might be worth 3 wins, losing Yoshida and Abreu might cost 4 wins, so on that basis we lose.

Our payroll AAV will go up a few million, our total commitment will go down because Gausman has 2 years while Yoshida has 3.

However there are some baseball roster, non-financial advantages, to the deal. 

Gausman upgrades the rotation pretty significantly, and he's been durable, so he helps the whole staff.

Subtracting Yoshida and Abreu takes care of roster clogs and LH hitter clogs.

And because the financial hit is small, we'd still have plenty of money to sign more pitching. 

[harmony]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

They're of comparable value, but you're probably getting absolutely nothing in return in that scenario.  A complete low level flier.

Which is fine, but how many wins does this team gain by taking Yoshida and Abreu off the roster?

Why would the Blue Jays trade their top-of-rotation starter for a designated hitter?

Even in his down 2024 season, Kevin Gausman posted twice the fWAR that Masataka Yoshida has posted in his first two MLB seasons combined.

 

[Hugh2]

34 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Very fair question.

Gausman might be worth 3 wins, losing Yoshida and Abreu might cost 4 wins, so on that basis we lose.

Our payroll AAV will go up a few million, our total commitment will go down because Gausman has 2 years while Yoshida has 3.

However there are some baseball roster, non-financial advantages, to the deal. 

Gausman upgrades the rotation pretty significantly, and he's been durable, so he helps the whole staff.

Subtracting Yoshida and Abreu takes care of roster clogs and LH hitter clogs.

And because the financial hit is small, we'd still have plenty of money to sign more pitching. 

I don't really think those guys are blocking anyone, and Abreu could be packaged up seperately for something of actual value (a good reliever).  I think they should just do that and buy pitching. 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, harmony said:

Why would the Blue Jays trade their top-of-rotation starter for a designated hitter?

Even in his down 2024 season, Kevin Gausman posted twice the fWAR that Masataka Yoshida has posted in his first two MLB seasons combined.

 

Is this meant for someone else? I never suggested Yoshida would net a starting pitcher or Gausman. 

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I don't really think those guys are blocking anyone, and Abreu could be packaged up seperately for something of actual value (a good reliever).  I think they should just do that and buy pitching. 

Say what-Gausman doesn't have actual value?  He's been one of the best and most durable starters for the last 4 years.  And you're getting him on a nice reasonable 2 year deal.  

And you're free of Yoshida's millstone contract.