A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part I

[Hugh2]

19 hours ago, notin said:

I wouldn’t have minded another year of O’Neill, whose off again/on again playing time creates an opportunity for Anthony as opposed to blocking him.

But I do think it’s likely the Sox never get a pick.  Pivetta shows up for work pretty regularly and so far that hasn’t worked out regarding his compensatory pick…

yeah that's fine, but you're still trading Abreu in that scenario.  Unless you want 3 outfielders on the bench, not counting Yoshida who is allegedly still an outfielder. 

[notin]

15 hours ago, Hitch said:

Weird reply. We've been trying to move him all winter regardless of us having O'Neil. And when we move him, which we should now, it'll be for other pieces we'll need.

With Anthony coming, we're set long term in the outfield.

 

 

There’s been a lot of speculation about Abreu being moved, but has Breslow actually tried moving him?  I find it hard to believe teams like Pittsburgh and KC have no interest in a 3 WAR Gold Glove right fielder with 5 years of control…

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

yeah that's fine, but you're still trading Abreu in that scenario.  Unless you want 3 outfielders on the bench, not counting Yoshida who is allegedly still an outfielder. 

Why?  Calling up Anthony to replace the oft-injured O’Neill during his IL trips only requires one roster spot…

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If O'Neill was a consistent 2 WAR guy, they would have retained him. His career is just a rollercoaster and he had back to back 2 WAR seasons due to all of his injury issues. As he gets older, those injuries will only get worse IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if '24 was his last decent season. His fielding fell off and he had the second highest amount of games played in his career. 

If he's being replaced by anyone it's Roman Anthony. 

Don't disagree with any of that, but Breslow did make a point of talking about balancing the lineup, so if they don't sign a RH bat it'll be another case of saying one thing and doing another.

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Why?  Calling up Anthony to replace the oft-injured O’Neill during his IL trips only requires one roster spot…

Sox are committed to playing Rafaela in CF and Duran is in CF.  

You're going to sign a $20 million dollar bench bat because he might go down and you can replace him with the games top prospect who should command his own timeline?  When you're an elite talent you start when you're ready, not when a hole opens up that you blocked in the first place. 

I'd offer O'Neill a QO and make him a DH/LF in a world where you get rid of Yoshida.  Otherwise you can get a platoon bat who mashes lefties for a lot less than $20 million. 

[Old Red]

21 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Who is we? Abreu is cheap. Moving him was part of a deal to bring back a frontline starter. They made a deal that didn't include Abreu. No reason to move him now. Right now, he's locked in as the everyday RFer. 

I may be one of the few people not overly concerned about the lefthandedness of the lineup. 

I don’t believe Abreu is locked in as the EVERYDAY RF at all. There will be some  platooning against LHP IMO.

 

 

[Hugh2]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Don't disagree with any of that, but Breslow did make a point of talking about balancing the lineup, so if they don't sign a RH bat it'll be another case of saying one thing and doing another.

At this point your RHB's are going to Story and Campbell.  

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

At this point your RHB's are going to Story and Campbell.  

I've been saying it for a while now, the only real hope for the 2025 offense is the kids.  

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

At this point your RHB's are going to Story and Campbell.  

Story left his bat in Colorado 3 years ago. Not counting on him finding a new one.

[Bellhorn04]

Our most reliable RH bats are actually Wong and Refsnyder.  🙃

[moonslav59]

Hey, we've done okay with the revolving door OF add-ons: Pillar> Renfroe>Duvall>O'Neill.

This year we have "Joe Diddilee."

Maybe Anthony of Campbell becomes the next add-on OF'er.

We still have...

LF: Duran (Anthony/Campbell, Romy, Ref & Yoshi)

CF: Rafaela (Duran & Anthony)

RF: Abreu (Anthony/Campbell, Rafaela, Ref & Romy)

It's not like our OF is barren. The depth involves some shuffling, at times, at least until a top prospects gets added to the 40 & 26 (at the same time.)

I still think we sign Grichuk or Laureano as a cheap one year bridge to a kid or two.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I still think we sign Grichuk or Laureano as a cheap one year bridge to a kid or two.

Me too.  Then again, as fans our job is to stay hopeful until hope is completely snuffed.  And the Sox of recent years really know how to snuff.  

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Me too.  Then again, as fans our job is to stay hopeful until hope is completely snuffed.  And the Sox of recent years really know how to snuff.  

They both fit the profile: will take one year and not cost much.

Also, do NOT be surprised, if one of these guys does better than O'Neill in 2025.

[Bellhorn04]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

They both fit the profile: will take one year and not cost much.

Also, do NOT be surprised, if one of these guys does better than O'Neill in 2025.

I won't.  But I also won't be surprised if they don't.    

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm really stoked about this Red Sox offense in 2025! Sure, we lost our home run leader and didn't replace him. But all the injured guys from last year are definitely going to be better this season: Devers, Casas, Story, Grissom, Masataka YOSHIDA! 

We here on talksox know these Red Sox bats are all going to rebound from nagging aches and pains and actually improve the O to make up for losing TO. The front office has really stacked the line-up this offseason. 

We hold these lies to be self-evident, because old people have more experience than the youth for whom we root. Muscle pulls and tears are overrated, backs and knees are indestructible, and internal scar tissue never calcifies.

We know that any injury that afflicts us totally goes away over time, and never recurs or holds us back from doing what we know how to do well: rake leaves, shovel the driveway, and push the garbage cans to the street once a week.

So don't worry, Sox fans. Batters don't forget how to swing the bat, and physical issues will never prevent them from succeeding. Plus, Sam Kennedy assures you they're in the business of winning championships.

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I won't.  But I also won't be surprised if they don't.    

I'd bet on O'Neill, but if I could take Grichuk or Laureano combined, I think one is more likely to do better. Which one? Who knows?

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I'm really stoked about this Red Sox offense in 2025! Sure, we lost our home run leader and didn't replace him. But all the injured guys from last year are definitely going to be better this season: Devers, Casas, Story, Grissom, Masataka YOSHIDA! 

We here on talksox know these Red Sox bats are all going to rebound from nagging aches and pains and actually improve the O to make up for losing TO. The front office has really stacked the line-up this offseason. 

We hold these lies to be self-evident, because old people have more experience than the youth for whom we root. Muscle pulls and tears are overrated, backs and knees are indestructible, and internal scar tissue never calcifies.

We know that any injury that afflicts us totally goes away over time, and never recurs or holds us back from doing what we know how to do well: rake leaves, shovel the driveway, and push the garbage cans to the street once a week.

So don't worry, Sox fans. Batters don't forget how to swing the bat, and physical issues will never prevent them from succeeding. Plus, Sam Kennedy assures you they're in the business of winning championships.

Kelly or Forest green?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Kelly or Forest green?

Forest -- but not Run Forest since the street is up a hill.

Recycle is Cobalt (luckily, not Teel).

[notin]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Sox are committed to playing Rafaela in CF and Duran is in CF.  

You're going to sign a $20 million dollar bench bat because he might go down and you can replace him with the games top prospect who should command his own timeline?  When you're an elite talent you start when you're ready, not when a hole opens up that you blocked in the first place. 

I'd offer O'Neill a QO and make him a DH/LF in a world where you get rid of Yoshida.  Otherwise you can get a platoon bat who mashes lefties for a lot less than $20 million. 

Well, the commitment to Rafaela in CF didn’t come until long after any decision on O’Neill.  The Sox had all three and Abreu last season and everyone got their time.   If O’Neill moved Rafaela’s bat to the bench a little more often, it’s not all that detrimental, especially with the improvements Duran made in CF…

[Hugh2]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

Well, the commitment to Rafaela in CF didn’t come until long after any decision on O’Neill.  The Sox had all three and Abreu last season and everyone got their time.   If O’Neill moved Rafaela’s bat to the bench a little more often, it’s not all that detrimental, especially with the improvements Duran made in CF…

You're still talking about paying $21 million a year for a bench bat platoon guy.  And yes, even if Rafaela is on the bench if Anthony is ready then you also have Abreu on the bench.  I'd rather sign Bregman and DFA Yoshida to get a RHB in the lineup. 

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, notin said:

Well, the commitment to Rafaela in CF didn’t come until long after any decision on O’Neill.  The Sox had all three and Abreu last season and everyone got their time.   If O’Neill moved Rafaela’s bat to the bench a little more often, it’s not all that detrimental, especially with the improvements Duran made in CF…

Rafaela playing more SS in 2024 helped with that choice, but yes, O'Neill was going to play, when healthy vs LHPs and RHPs. There may have been a more prevalent platoon with Rafaela and Abreu had Story been healthy, of maybe they'd have played Rafaela at 2B, instead of pivoting to DHam and Romy after EValdez & Grissom imploded.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

16 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

You're still talking about paying $21 million a year for a bench bat platoon guy.  And yes, even if Rafaela is on the bench if Anthony is ready then you also have Abreu on the bench.  I'd rather sign Bregman and DFA Yoshida to get a RHB in the lineup. 

Something to ponder: which dormant (or is that doormat) bat is more likely to break out in 2025: A. Story's; B. Grissom's or C. Yoshida's?

Before you answer, keep in mind that two choices have never hit in Boston, and one of those has struck out over 30% of his ABs in three straight years.

The third choice finished 6th in the AL in batting average and has a two-year K-rate of 13.3%...

[Hugh2]

6 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Something to ponder: which dormant (or is that doormat) bat is more likely to break out in 2025: A. Story's; B. Grissom's or C. Yoshida's?

Before you answer, keep in mind that two choices have never hit in Boston, and one of those has struck out over 30% of his ABs in three straight years.

The third choice finished 6th in the AL in batting average and has a two-year K-rate of 13.3%...

So.....we should spend $21 million on a bench bat then?

If Yoshida is so good, how come no one wants to trade for him? 

[Hugh2]

This is what John Henry has done to you guys.  He's reduced you to defending part time bench bats and Yoshida as being the saviors of Boston.  

I'd rather play the kids than have as multiple  DH/LF type who only have one tool on my roster. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just now, Hugh2 said:

So.....we should spend $21 million on a bench bat then?

If Yoshida is so good, how come no one wants to trade for him? 

I never said he was so good, but he is a professional hitter -- and since Breslow is stuck with Bloom's past, the Red Sox might as well let him try to earn what he's owed. 

Let's see if surgery helps Yoshida's production this year. Lord knows the batting order can use one of the few guys on the roster who's not a whiff king. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

This is what John Henry has done to you guys.  He's reduced you to defending part time bench bats and Yoshida as being the saviors of Boston.  

I'd rather play the kids than have as multiple  DH/LF type who only have one tool on my roster. 

Henry disrespects his loyal fans by not allowing his front office to acquire the talent he can easily afford that will annually compete for titles.

And if he instructs his generals to lie to the public, that is beyond despicable.

But it's also easy to see how he could look at recent Red Sox free agent failures and lock all his valuables in a safety deposit box.

What's mystifying is why he hasn't fired the entire front office and started fresh, instead of just changing one talking head every three years. Maybe he's not hungry enough anymore...

[Hugh2]

13 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I never said he was so good, but he is a professional hitter -- and since Breslow is stuck with Bloom's past, the Red Sox might as well let him try to earn what he's owed. 

Let's see if surgery helps Yoshida's production this year. Lord knows the batting order can use one of the few guys on the roster who's not a whiff king. 

This whole conversation was about O'Neill not Yoshida, so I'm going to pivot back because ultimately I don't really care I think we are stuck with Yoshida anyways. 

The front office obviously has a budget, I'm not spending $21 million a year on O'Neill if that meant not signing the pitchers we did this offseason.  I think we are fine with Duran/Rafaela and an Abreu/Refsynder platoon out there until Anthony is ready (who hits LHP and RHP just as well BTW).  

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Something to ponder: which dormant (or is that doormat) bat is more likely to break out in 2025: A. Story's; B. Grissom's or C. Yoshida's?

Before you answer, keep in mind that two choices have never hit in Boston, and one of those has struck out over 30% of his ABs in three straight years.

The third choice finished 6th in the AL in batting average and has a two-year K-rate of 13.3%...

None finished 6th in BA in the AL, even if you lower the qualifying ABs.

My pick is Story with Yoshida close behind.

"Break out" implies a jump. For Yoshida to break out, he needs to go from .285 to .325.

For Story to "break out" from .235 to .275.

I have little faith in Grissom.

[Bellhorn04]

28 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

So.....we should spend $21 million on a bench bat then? 

You're saying O'Neill was/is a bench bat?

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You're saying O'Neill was/is a bench bat?

I'm saying he has a .683 OPS vs. RHP the last 3 years and his defense has regressed to below average.  

Yes, that's not a guy I want starting on a team with playoff ambitions.  Or, at the very least it's not someone I want to spend $21 million dollars on.