Trades?

[Old Red]

The Sox middle infield is a mess right now…

 

It has been since Story went down, but yet they keep on winning.

[jgar658]

This is not rocket science.

The Sox need pitching, pitching, pitching.

A right hand bat would be nice.

 

Trade Valdez. He can hit, but a poor fielder is

devastating to the team . The Sox do not need people that cannot catch the ball unless they are Devers.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

It's a mess but maybe Rafaela can settle in at SS and Grissom will perform well when he returns. As far as Dejong goes, he has a 0.3 WAR and a 100 OPS+. He has some HR power, but he isn't a quality hitter, has always been a dog crap offensive player.

 

IMO, the Red Sox are better off going with Rafaela at SS, Hamilton/Westbrook platoon at 2b until Grissom returns, and replace Yoshida with a legitimate middle of the order bat.

[moonslav59]

What's up with the 1-8/9-20 delineation?

 

Look at the list. Big gap after KCampbell and Perales.

[moonslav59]

Big dropoff after Cespedes at 7 (the upper tier). I wouldn't include Fitts in the upper tier.

 

I could see 1-7 and 8-20 or so.

 

I included Fitts due to our shortage of healthy farm arm prospects.

 

I’d trade Fitts and a couple 9-30 guys for a pitcher, even a very good rental.

 

I would not trade 1-7 for any rental.

[moonslav59]

The Sox middle infield is a mess right now…

 

It was actually worse the last 2-3 or even 4 years. Roomy, DHam and Rafaela are doing better, but we still could use help.

 

Any ideas on a big RH bat that plays MI and is on the block?

[illinoisredsox]

This is not rocket science.

The Sox need pitching, pitching, pitching.

A right hand bat would be nice.

 

Trade Valdez. He can hit, but a poor fielder is

devastating to the team . The Sox do not need people that cannot catch the ball unless they are Devers.

 

And other teams do? What in the world are you going to get for Valdez other than a C level prospect who’s still in A ball? Years ago when the team make-up was 15 position players and 10 pitchers, he may have had some value as a pinch hitter, but those days are long gone.

Edited July 10, 2024 by illinoisredsox

[Old Red]

It was actually worse the last 2-3 or even 4 years. Roomy, DHam and Rafaela are doing better, but we still could use help.

 

Any ideas on a big RH bat that plays MI and is on the block?

 

2022 was fine with Bogey at SS, and Story at 2B.

[mvp 78]

It was actually worse the last 2-3 or even 4 years. Roomy, DHam and Rafaela are doing better, but we still could use help.

 

Any ideas on a big RH bat that plays MI and is on the block?

 

They'll need someone who can actually play defense. Rafaela at SS is as bad as Valdez is at 2b (-6 DRS, -9 OAA, -23.4 UZR/150).

[notin]

They'll need someone who can actually play defense. Rafaela at SS is as bad as Valdez is at 2b (-6 DRS, -9 OAA, -23.4 UZR/150).

 

DeJong.

[Old Red]

DeJong.

 

I saw Nico Hoerner mentioned the other day.

[mvp 78]

DeJong.

 

-8 DRS, -1 OAA, -7.6 UZR/150

 

Can we get a GOOD SS?

[mvp 78]

I saw Nico Hoerner mentioned the other day.

 

No chance. He's signed through 2026 and is actually a good player.

[Old Red]

No chance. He's signed through 2026 and is actually a good player.

 

Your right, and $12M is out of the Red Sox price range.

[notin]

-8 DRS, -1 OAA, -7.6 UZR/150

 

Can we get a GOOD SS?

 

Nick Ahmed was DFAd yesterday…

[mvp 78]

Your right, and $12M is out of the Red Sox price range.

 

Yes and most likely.

[mvp 78]

Nick Ahmed was DFAd yesterday…

 

I could have sworn he was already DFA'd this year or we had at least discussed him. He has the same fWAR as Rafaela. As a backup SS, they could do a whole lot worse IMO! Even if he's a guy you bring in for the 8th and 9th inning, it'd make sense to have him on the bench a la Pokey Reese.

[notin]

-8 DRS, -1 OAA, -7.6 UZR/150

 

Can we get a GOOD SS?

 

Really in this case, he’s having his one bad year defensively. He has shown he has the skill set…

[Maxbialystock]

Really in this case, he’s having his one bad year defensively. He has shown he has the skill set…

 

A SS who can't hit (OPS below .600), is struggling on defense this year, is 34, and has been DFA'd by a team with a losing record. Sounds perfect to me.

[notin]

A SS who can't hit (OPS below .600), is struggling on defense this year, is 34, and has been DFA'd by a team with a losing record. Sounds perfect to me.

 

You're combining two players.

 

The numbers above are from Chicago White Sox SS Paul DeJong, who is 30 years old with an OPS of .717 and 16 HRs. His metrics are uncharacteristically down this year. He has not been DFAd by anyone this season,

 

Nick Ahmed was DFAd by the Giants, is 34 and struggles offensively over his career. But his defensive metrics are actually still pretty good...

[Maxbialystock]

I could have sworn he was already DFA'd this year or we had at least discussed him. He has the same fWAR as Rafaela. As a backup SS, they could do a whole lot worse IMO! Even if he's a guy you bring in for the 8th and 9th inning, it'd make sense to have him on the bench a la Pokey Reese.

 

FYI, Pokey Reese played in 96 games as the Sox SS in 2004. That team was knee deep in great bats and could afford a no-hit SS like Pokey. If memory serves, Bill Mueller, OPS .811, batted 9th on the 2004 Sox, who led MLB in runs scored with 52 more than the 2d place team and whose team OPS was .832.

 

The 2024 Sox are a far cry from the 2004 Sox.

[mvp 78]

FYI, Pokey Reese played in 96 games as the Sox SS in 2004. That team was knee deep in great bats and could afford a no-hit SS like Pokey. If memory serves, Bill Mueller, OPS .811, batted 9th on the 2004 Sox, who led MLB in runs scored with 52 more than the 2d place team and whose team OPS was .832.

 

The 2024 Sox are a far cry from the 2004 Sox.

 

I clearly said "backup SS (to) bring in for the 8th and 9th inning." His bat is fine on the bench and in a limited sample against tough lefties (733 OPS vs LHP).

 

Mueller only started 6 games in 2004 hitting 9th.

 

8th - 182 PA

2nd - 141 PA

7th - 88 PA

9th - 27 PA

[mvp 78]

Really in this case, he’s having his one bad year defensively. He has shown he has the skill set…

 

Being 30, you wouldn't attribute the decline completely to age either. IDK. Not watching him day in and day out so only can comment on the metrics and not the EYE TEST.

[Maxbialystock]

DeJong's name was not on this page (42) until you mentioned it. So all my stats are on Nick Ahmed.

 

Now that I know you are offering DeJong up, I do like the righty power (16 dingers). However, his WAR after 86 games is only +0.3. Hamilton's is +1.4 and Rafaela's is +1.2.

 

Plus, quite frankly, I have to wonder about those 16 dingers, which remind me suspiciously of Jacoby Ellsbury's 32 dingers in 2011--fool's gold.

[notin]

Being 30, you wouldn't attribute the decline completely to age either. IDK. Not watching him day in and day out so only can comment on the metrics and not the EYE TEST.

 

I’ve watched a few games this year in person and on TV. I don’t feel qualified to call it an age-related decline, which is certainly possible…

[notin]

DeJong's name was not on this page (42) until you mentioned it. So all my stats are on Nick Ahmed.

 

Now that I know you are offering DeJong up, I do like the righty power (16 dingers). However, his WAR after 86 games is only +0.3. Hamilton's is +1.4 and Rafaela's is +1.2.

 

Plus, quite frankly, I have to wonder about those 16 dingers, which remind me suspiciously of Jacoby Ellsbury's 32 dingers in 2011--fool's gold.

 

He was brought in at posts 610 and again in 612, which was the one I responded to that you followed up with.

 

But he gets mentioned on this board a lot, which is 100% because I bring him up far too often considering that he’s maybe a league average player…

[Maxbialystock]

I clearly said "backup SS (to) bring in for the 8th and 9th inning." His bat is fine on the bench and in a limited sample against tough lefties (733 OPS vs LHP).

 

Mueller only started 6 games in 2004 hitting 9th.

 

8th - 182 PA

2nd - 141 PA

7th - 88 PA

9th - 27 PA

 

Brilliantly done. You completely ignored that the 2004 Sox scored 52 more runs than anyone else and had an insane team OPS of .832. Still, I stand corrected on Mueller batting 9th.

 

Let me restate my position. As bad as the Sox defense is--they currently have 6 more errors and bunch more unearned runs than anyone else--I believe the Sox hitting is more important to winning games and the pitching is more important than the hitting. So screw the 8th/9th inning glove and get a good arm and a good righty bat.

 

You guys all forget that the Sox have just 13 lineup players, which means just 4 subs, one of whom is the essential backup catcher. Right now that's all Wong and McGuire do is cover that one position. So the other 11 players provide 8 of the 9 hitters and 1b, 2b, SS, 3b, LF, RF, CF, and DH.

 

Moreover, lately Cora has gone to using his bench to replace lefty bats with righty bats and vice versa, depending on whether the opposing pitcher on the mound is a lefty or righty. Rafaela plays both CF and SS precisely because that gives Cora some flexibility on getting his two best righty bats, O'Neill and Ref, into the lineup when lefties are on the mound.

 

Not that it means anything, but impression I get from soxprospects is that the best SS glove the Sox can readily get their hands on is someone named Marcelo Mayer.

[notin]

Brilliantly done. You completely ignored that the 2004 Sox scored 52 more runs than anyone else and had an insane team OPS of .832. Still, I stand corrected on Mueller batting 9th.

 

Let me restate my position. As bad as the Sox defense is--they currently have 6 more errors and bunch more unearned runs than anyone else--I believe the Sox hitting is more important to winning games and the pitching is more important than the hitting. So screw the 8th/9th inning glove and get a good arm and a good righty bat.

 

You guys all forget that the Sox have just 13 lineup players, which means just 4 subs, one of whom is the essential backup catcher. Right now that's all Wong and McGuire do is cover that one position. So the other 11 players provide 8 of the 9 hitters and 1b, 2b, SS, 3b, LF, RF, CF, and DH.

 

Moreover, lately Cora has gone to using his bench to replace lefty bats with righty bats and vice versa, depending on whether the opposing pitcher on the mound is a lefty or righty. Rafaela plays both CF and SS precisely because that gives Cora some flexibility on getting his two best righty bats, O'Neill and Ref, into the lineup when lefties are on the mound.

 

Not that it means anything, but impression I get from soxprospects is that the best SS glove the Sox can readily get their hands on is someone named Marcelo Mayer.

 

I keep hearing the Sox desperately need a right-handed bat. But where is this bat supposed to play?

[moonslav59]

They'll need someone who can actually play defense. Rafaela at SS is as bad as Valdez is at 2b (-6 DRS, -9 OAA, -23.4 UZR/150).

 

I don’t disagree but we had bad D and bad O for years.

[Old Red]

I keep hearing the Sox desperately need a right-handed bat. But where is this bat supposed to play?

 

DH? Against LHP at the very least.

Edited July 10, 2024 by Old Red