4/28 Red Sox/Yellow Shirts vs Chicago Cubs 7:10PM EDT on ESPN

[notin]

I like the 3 batter rule and have absolutely no sympathy for Martin. He screwed up royally, period.

 

Well, you’re wrong about 3 batter minimum. It’s a bad rule unless you want faster games with less strategy.

 

But that was never about Martin. My initial complaint was about Cora, but my second review made me realize Cora did play it right; it just didn’t work out…

[moonslav59]

Nice game, again.

 

One more game, and we will have gone through the rotation 6 times. We've had, basically 3 bad starts out of 29, including openers.

 

We should start getting our starters back, but it may take a while for them to get back in a groove.

 

Big win.

 

The Yanks are back in first.

We are 3 back from first and 2 back from BAL in second.

We are now 2 up on TOR & 3 on TBR.

 

We are 6th best in the AL:

0.5 from DET

1.0 from KCR

 

We are 11th in MLB.

 

Run Diff

+47 ATL

+46 CLE

+43 NYY

+43 KCR

+38 LAD

+34 BAL

+33 BOS

 

[Old Red]

Well, you’re wrong about 3 batter minimum. It’s a bad rule unless you want faster games with less strategy.

 

But that was never about Martin. My initial complaint was about Cora, but my second review made me realize Cora did play it right; it just didn’t work out…

 

Luckily for everyone that you don’t get to judge what’s right, or wrong, and what’s good, or bad. You may have an opinion, but that certainly doesn’t make it right.🤭🙈🤮

[notin]

Please familiarize yourself with the rules (particular the 3-batter rule) before launching your condescending tirades against the manager, or the players, the rules, the sport in general, or other posters.

 

 

Actually I think you need to learn the rules. Per post 82 above, Martin had faced his 3 batters.

 

Which means not wanting him to face the red hot Tauchman (OPS of 1.338 in the past week before last night) was a fairly legitimate concern that I posted about even before Tauchman homered…

[notin]

Luckily for everyone that you don’t get to judge what’s right, or wrong, and what’s good, or bad. You may have an opinion, but that certainly doesn’t make it right.

 

Oh irony. This from the man (?) who is all about telling people their opinions and preferences are wrong…

[Old Red]

Oh irony. This from the man (?) who is all about telling people their opinions and preferences are wrong…

 

You came right out, and said another person’s opinion was wrong. That is wrong in itself.

[Old Red]

Actually I think you need to learn the rules. Per post 82 above, Martin had faced his 3 batters.

 

Which means not wanting him to face the red hot Tauchman (OPS of 1.338 in the past week before last night) was a fairly legitimate concern that I posted about even before Tauchman homered…

 

Martin was fine facing Tauchman. It just didn’t work out.

[redsoxrules]

It's not all on Martin. Dalbec also screwed up by his positioning in the 7th inning where no runs should have score there. Whether that was his own or the defense coach it was bad positioning. Even the clueless announcers picked up on that.

[moonslav59]

Oh irony. This from the man (?) who is all about telling people their opinions and preferences are wrong…

 

Like the 3 man rule is an "opinion."

[notin]

Martin was fine facing Tauchman. It just didn’t work out.

 

Disagree. And Tauchman proved that.

 

I also question Counsell for holding off on Neris with Duran and Devers due up…

[mvp 78]

Well, you’re wrong about 3 batter minimum. It’s a bad rule unless you want faster games with less strategy.

 

But that was never about Martin. My initial complaint was about Cora, but my second review made me realize Cora did play it right; it just didn’t work out…

 

Get rid of the 3 batter minimum, but greatly reduce the amount of warmup tosses a new pitcher gets to take on the mound unless for injury.

[mvp 78]

Like the 3 man rule is an "opinion."

 

Having a strong opinion about it either way is something...

[Old Red]

Disagree. And Tauchman proved that.

 

I also question Counsell for holding off on Neris with Duran and Devers due up…

 

It didn’t work out last night, but I bet Cora would do the same thing again in the same situation.

[Old Red]

Like the 3 man rule is an "opinion."

 

What you think about it isn’t an opinion??? Wow!

[Old Red]

Get rid of the 3 batter minimum, but greatly reduce the amount of warmup tosses a new pitcher gets to take on the mound unless for injury.

 

Disagree 100% on the three batter rule. Reduce the warmup pitches? Both are here to stay.

[mvp 78]

Disagree 100% on the three batter rule. Reduce the warmup pitches? Both are here to stay.

 

I'm just saying that's a compromise that would be necessary to be made for time saving if they got rid of it. I don't really care either way. I do prefer shorter games.

[Old Red]

I'm just saying that's a compromise that would be necessary to be made for time saving if they got rid of it. I don't really care either way. I do prefer shorter games.

 

That’s why the three batter rule was put in to help move the game along faster, which the game needed.

[illinoisredsox]

Actually I think you need to learn the rules. Per post 82 above, Martin had faced his 3 batters.

 

Which means not wanting him to face the red hot Tauchman (OPS of 1.338 in the past week before last night) was a fairly legitimate concern that I posted about even before Tauchman homered…

 

I made post 82 but didn’t realize Joely had already been DFA’d. Uwasara is a lefty, but I’m not sure that would have been the spot for his debut.

 

I looked back and you did indeed post about your concerns with keeping Martin in in real time. Kudos to you for that; you are not a 20-20 hindsight guy as so many others here are.

[moonslav59]

Having a strong opinion about it either way is something...

 

Of course, but thinking you could not take out Martin due to the 3 man rule, when he had already faced 3 batters is not an opinion. It is factually incorrect.

[vegasbob]

To clarify the 3 batter rule , Martin could have been done after getting the last out of the 7th , but once he came back for the 8th, he was obligated , barring injury, to pitch to a minimum of 2 more batters. In this case they both hit soft singles . Martin did not NEED to pitch to Tauchman to satisfy the 3 man rule . That was a decision to leave him in by AC. Got burned by a hot hitter , but set up the comeback.

 

Duran definitely had problems with his options from 3rd base on O'Neill's shallow fly against a drawn in infield, leading to the winning run. But Duran also had the 2 run triple with 2 outs in the 6th providing the extra runs that allowed Martin to give up a tie, not a deficit. I only hope the positioning of Dalbec in the 7th was from the bench ( vs a LH hitter) because I truly hope no player is that stupid on his own.

[mvp 78]

Of course, but thinking you could not take out Martin due to the 3 man rule, when he had already faced 3 batters is not an opinion. It is factually incorrect.

 

I'm not wading into that portion of the argument.

[notin]

I made post 82 but didn’t realize Joely had already been DFA’d. Uwasara is a lefty, but I’m not sure that would have been the spot for his debut.

 

I looked back and you did indeed post about your concerns with keeping Martin in in real time. Kudos to you for that; you are not a 20-20 hindsight guy as so many others here are.

 

Thank you for the recognition.

 

On post 68, I called for Jansen to come up and face Tauchman (and any subsequent hitters). Then Tauchman homered.

 

My logic, which I didn't have time to get in that post, was to use the best reliever against their hottest hitter and best hitters. I wasn't calling for a lefty (although Booser was available), since there we no outs and unless Tauchman hits into a triple play, the new pitcher also has to face Happ (switch hitter) and Morel (RHH).

 

If Jansen gets through those 3, Busch and Swanson are not pushovers, but Slaten or Weissert were available to close the game out...

[notin]

Get rid of the 3 batter minimum, but greatly reduce the amount of warmup tosses a new pitcher gets to take on the mound unless for injury.

 

I'm ok with the warmup toss thing, although they do give the TV station an opportunity for a commercial.

 

I say get rid of September call ups. Just use a 26 man roster all year long and don't give managers larger bullpens. One of the biggest reasons for the 3 batter rule was Bruce Bochy, who would call up every available pitcher when he was managing the Giants and make 3 to pitching changes in an inning multiple times in a game. If he did not have an expanded bullpen, he would not have been able to do this.

 

I know they limited the September call ups, but, frankly, not very well. You can still use all of the remaining 14 players on the 40 man roster, but limit the number per game. Big deal. So managers can use 2 extra relievers today, and 2 different (and recently activated!) extra relievers tomorrow.

 

Just stop it.

 

If you want to give a chance to some of your younger players, fine. Just DFA some of your older players to make room for them. You know, like every other sport does...

[Old Red]

Of course, but thinking you could not take out Martin due to the 3 man rule, when he had already faced 3 batters is not an opinion. It is factually incorrect.

 

As usual you don’t get the point at all, and fly off in a different direction. The maintenance point was NOT if Martin could have been taken out, but if he should have been in a that point in the first place, which Notin didn’t get.🙈🤭

[Maxbialystock]

To clarify the 3 batter rule , Martin could have been done after getting the last out of the 7th , but once he came back for the 8th, he was obligated , barring injury, to pitch to a minimum of 2 more batters. In this case they both hit soft singles . Martin did not NEED to pitch to Tauchman to satisfy the 3 man rule . That was a decision to leave him in by AC. Got burned by a hot hitter , but set up the comeback.

 

Duran definitely had problems with his options from 3rd base on O'Neill's shallow fly against a drawn in infield, leading to the winning run. But Duran also had the 2 run triple with 2 outs in the 6th providing the extra runs that allowed Martin to give up a tie, not a deficit. I only hope the positioning of Dalbec in the 7th was from the bench ( vs a LH hitter) because I truly hope no player is that stupid on his own.

 

Duran had an overall good game, obviously, including the BB in the 9th and then getting to 3b on Devers' line drive single to LF. But not tagging up on the pop could have been a disaster because, had it been caught, the Cubs get a double play and are then likely to escape the 9th without giving up the winning run.

 

I have not looked at a replay to see what the heck the 3b coach was doing.

[Maxbialystock]

Martin got the last man out--with 2 men on--in the 7th inning on a little dribbler Wong picked up and threw to 1b. So of course Martin should have pitched the 8th inning. Yes, he gave up 2 singles and a dinger in the 8th--bad--but then he K'd 2 Cubs and got the last out on a fly. Tauchman's 3 run dinger to dead center was on a 94 mph cutter low in the zone, which I think was a good pitch but a better swing by the batter.

 

Then in comes the Ancient Mariner, Jansen, who gets 3 quick outs in the 9th with basically nothing but his 93 mph cutter which he threw to good spots. I have maligned Jansen regularly this season and don't like his salary ($16M), but he has been effective.

 

Overall, I can't complain about any of Cora's decisions, including leaving Martin in, last night.

[jad]

Actually I think you need to learn the rules. Per post 82 above, Martin had faced his 3 batters.

 

Which means not wanting him to face the red hot Tauchman (OPS of 1.338 in the past week before last night) was a fairly legitimate concern that I posted about even before Tauchman homered…

 

Again, please review the 3-batter rule. Or let me spare you the trouble: a pitcher who ends the inning is not required to face additional batters in the following inning.

[notin]

Again, please review the 3-batter rule. Or let me spare you the trouble: a pitcher who ends the inning is not required to face additional batters in the following inning.

 

I forgot he came in for the 8th. Interestingly, that means my concerns about leaving Martin to face Tauchman (posted as Tauchman came up) were actually justified.

 

I see what Cora was hoping for - use the setup guy for 9-1-2, and then Jansen gets the more difficult part of the order. But once Martin failed to get Crow-Armstrong and Hoerner out, it greatly reduced the chances of Jansen pitching to the heart of the order. And saving the best reliever for the 5-6-7 hitters seems like a big waste of talent to me...

[notin]

Martin got the last man out--with 2 men on--in the 7th inning on a little dribbler Wong picked up and threw to 1b. So of course Martin should have pitched the 8th inning. Yes, he gave up 2 singles and a dinger in the 8th--bad--but then he K'd 2 Cubs and got the last out on a fly. Tauchman's 3 run dinger to dead center was on a 94 mph cutter low in the zone, which I think was a good pitch but a better swing by the batter.

 

Then in comes the Ancient Mariner, Jansen, who gets 3 quick outs in the 9th with basically nothing but his 93 mph cutter which he threw to good spots. I have maligned Jansen regularly this season and don't like his salary ($16M), but he has been effective.

 

Overall, I can't complain about any of Cora's decisions, including leaving Martin in, last night.

 

My complaint about Martin in was not really specific to Cora, who had a clear and smart plan that he did not budge from once it started falling apart.

 

But in general the notion of using the closer against whoever comes up in the ninth often means other, often lesser, relievers have to face key hitters earlier. Use your best against their best. That should be the strategy...

[Maxbialystock]

My complaint about Martin in was not really specific to Cora, who had a clear and smart plan that he did not budge from once it started falling apart.

 

But in general the notion of using the closer against whoever comes up in the ninth often means other, often lesser, relievers have to face key hitters earlier. Use your best against their best. That should be the strategy...

 

If memory serves, Jansen is not nearly as good in the 8th inning as he is in the 9th, and he is especially not good when he comes in with men on base. I could be wrong about that, but don't think so.