Red Sox ownership

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why do Holliday and Skenes get credit for turning their organizations around already? What have these guys done that Teel and Anthony haven’t?

 

No one here gave them credit for doing anything yet -- but almost every single expert professional in the industry has ranked them the top position prospect and top pitching prospect in the game. Certainly, those are the NUMBER ONE OVERALL picks, like Rutschman, that an annual doormat like the Red Sox would welcome in their rebuild.

 

And for those who pick apart every single word of every single post, here's what these two guys have done so far: signed their names to contracts worth almost three times as much combined as those for Teel and Anthony.

[notin]

No one here gave them credit for doing anything yet -- but almost every single expert professional in the industry has ranked them the top position prospect and top pitching prospect in the game. Certainly, those are the NUMBER ONE OVERALL picks, like Rutschman, that an annual doormat like the Red Sox would welcome in their rebuild.

 

And for those who pick apart every single word of every single post, here's what these two guys have done so far: signed their names to contracts worth almost three times as much combined as those for Teel and Anthony.

 

 

Wasn’t Mayer that same f***ing guy in 2021?

 

You’re f***ing amazing. Last week I said Eovaldi wasn’t worth his contact and you immediately jumped all over it with a poorly-researched stat. And then cried victim and got into all sorts of accusations against me.

 

Let’s rehash some recent chats quickly

 

Notin: Eovaldi wasn’t worth his contract.

5GG: You’re wrong. He was. He lead the SP in WAR over

those years.

Notin: Actually he didn’t.

5GG: We’ll if you’re going to jump all over everything I say, WTF? That’s why other posters don’t come here anymore!! And it’s way worse you correcting me than me doing it to you, which is how this whole argument started!

 

I get stuff like this all the time, too. Like yesterday.

 

Notin: Giolito would have had the second best bWAR on the Sox last year.

Bellhorn: Incorrect. You didn’t add in his negative performance across two other teams.

Notin: yeah I f***ed that one up.

 

But yeah. I’m the only perp and you’re the only victim…

Edited March 9, 2024 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

We officially have a new pair of Rock Em Sock Em Robots on Talksox.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But yeah. I’m the only perp and you’re the only victim…

 

Can't believe you included Bellhorn in your perple prose, without citing BellWAR and Bell's crackstistics!

 

And your dictum I'm the victim has me feeling like a real dictum.

 

From now on, when I'm merely trying to TALK SOX, I'll only mention an opinion on a player that even I can back up with a mofo fact...

 

... like the Red Sox sure could use a #1 overall pick like Adley Rutschman, who can almost instantly turn around their franchise -- like Rutsch did when he first joined Baltimore in May '22. At the time, the Orioles were eight games below .500; since he's become their starting catcher, they are 52 games over .500.

 

I'm sure you remember one of the starting catchers in Baltimore before the freshman Rutsch -- no, not Chirinos... but Anthony Bemboom. The Red Sox will have a lot of Bembooms that need replacing this season...

[notin]

Can't believe you included Bellhorn in your perple prose, without citing BellWAR and Bell's crackstistics!

 

And your dictum I'm the victim has me feeling like a real dictum.

 

From now on, when I'm merely trying to TALK SOX, I'll only mention an opinion on a player that even I can back up with a mofo fact...

 

... like the Red Sox sure could use a #1 overall pick like Adley Rutschman, who can almost instantly turn around their franchise -- like Rutsch did when he first joined Baltimore in May '22. At the time, the Orioles were eight games below .500; since he's become their starting catcher, they are 52 games over .500.

 

I'm sure you remember one of the starting catchers in Baltimore before the freshman Rutsch -- no, not Chirinos... but Anthony Bemboom. The Red Sox will have a lot of Bembooms that need replacing this season...

 

You’re making me even more optimistic about this years Sox team.

 

Granted, the number of players who can impact a team so immediately like Rutschman did is probably infinitesimally small. Even the massively hyped (and deservedly so in my book) Bryce Harper didn’t turn his team around merely by showing up. Hell, former Blue Jay prospect Travis Snider, who nickname was “The Franchise”, turned out to be anything but. Who besides Rutschman and LeBron, how many athletes have ever had such an immediate impact on their teams? (Tom Brady? We’re getting into Seriously elite company.)

 

So while there is an argument the Sox are one first round pick away, it doesn’t seem all that likely. But on the be bright side, Baltimore won 100 games last year with a rotation less impressive than Boston has now. And while maybe there is no Rutschman on the horizon, maybe never, but the Sox do have a new pitching coach with an extremely effective track record at pushing pitchers ahead.

 

I’m sticking with my optimism…

Edited March 9, 2024 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You’re making me even more optimistic about this years Sox team.

 

Granted, the number of players who can impact a team so immediately like Rutschman did is probably infinitesimally small. Even the massively hyped (and deservedly so in my book) Bryce Harper didn’t turn his team around merely by showing up. Hell, former Blue Jay prospect Travis Snider, who nickname was “The Franchise”, turned out to be anything but. Who besides Rutschman and LeBron, how many athletes have ever had such an immediate impact on their teams? (Tom Brady? We’re getting into Seriously elite company.)

 

So while there is an argument the Sox are one first round pick away, it doesn’t seem all that likely. But on the be bright side, Baltimore won 100 games last year with a rotation less impressive than Boston has now. And while maybe there is no Rutschman on the horizon, maybe never, but the Sox do have a new pitching coach with an extremely effective track record at pushing pitchers ahead.

 

I’m sticking with my optimism…

 

Ok, though there is a chance that new pitching experts already contributed to the team losing its most expensive offseason addition to the staff... that is, if Giolito was following their instructions when he blew out his elbow and wasn't already undisclosed damaged goods (or wasn't following directions when he tried to throw his slider too hard). But you're right -- the pitching is bound to be better under new tutelage and fresh eyes.

 

We should look forward soon to the arrival of last year's top college catcher in the nation. The last time Boston acquired a guy like that was probably Varitek, who took a few years to emerge, but had such an impact that we can recall the season he cracked an elbow diving for a pop-up. He was all done, and so were the Sox that year; Tek's absence was worse than losing Pedro and Nomar to injuries.

 

Can never underestimate the importance of a top catcher who curates the pitching staff. Remember the greatest Sox team in '18, when certain pitchers preferred throwing to Leon instead of Vazquez? (moon may have had some stats to back that choice). Maybe Rutschman was that valuable to Baltimore's 101-win no-name rotation. Hopefully, Teel is the real deal.

[Randy Red Sox]

I don’t think a single poster or article said 4th to 6th. Why not go back and delete that post.

 

i never said a poster but i did read somewhere we were ranked that high at one time

[Randy Red Sox]

Mazzlive.com August 23,2023 had us ranked as the #5 farm system. google it. as did Baseball America

[notin]

Ok, though there is a chance that new pitching experts already contributed to the team losing its most expensive offseason addition to the staff... that is, if Giolito was following their instructions when he blew out his elbow and wasn't already undisclosed damaged goods (or wasn't following directions when he tried to throw his slider too hard). But you're right -- the pitching is bound to be better under new tutelage and fresh eyes.

 

We should look forward soon to the arrival of last year's top college catcher in the nation. The last time Boston acquired a guy like that was probably Varitek, who took a few years to emerge, but had such an impact that we can recall the season he cracked an elbow diving for a pop-up. He was all done, and so were the Sox that year; Tek's absence was worse than losing Pedro and Nomar to injuries.

 

Can never underestimate the importance of a top catcher who curates the pitching staff. Remember the greatest Sox team in '18, when certain pitchers preferred throwing to Leon instead of Vazquez? (moon may have had some stats to back that choice). Maybe Rutschman was that valuable to Baltimore's 101-win no-name rotation. Hopefully, Teel is the real deal.

 

I think there definitely is some hope. Connor Wong was a pleasant surprise, but only because expectations were probably quite low. I will admit mine were, especially since the Dodgers were repeatedly trying him at other positions. Maybe that had more to do with how stacked their system was with catchers. After all, they did have Will Smith, Keibert Ruiz and Diego Cartaya all ranked ahead of him. Of course, Wong still strikes me as a good backup. A major league caliber player, but not a solid starter on a team hoping to contend.

 

There might be some hope that Whitlock’s lack of durability was hampered by his hip surgery in 2022 as well. If so, maybe he is a good starter capable of 140-150 decent IP.

 

Pivetta was always one of those “stuff” guys whose performance never seemed to match his scouting evals. Tampa had their eyes on him when Boston stole him from the Phillies for a couple journeyman arms. Crawford looked surprisingly solid last year. And Bello’s season appeared to be marred by fatigue that dragged him down in the second half.

 

I’d still like the Sox to grab an arm or two, and there are some serviceable options still available beyond the Elite Contract Seekers in Snell and Montgomery, and beyond the Ethical Question Marks in Bauer, Clevinger and German. (I’m being kind with that label.) Not sure why the Sox refuse to pursue Lorenzen and Odorizzi. Or why they let Stanek and Lauer go elsewhere for peanuts. These guys are getting so cheap, they barely qualify as gambles.

 

As for Giolito, a lot of teams gambled on him last year, which also means he’s had some physicals. Cleveland is a cheaper team and still took on his contract, allowing the Angels to sneak back under the tax limit. I’m guessing they checked him out, given their annual budget limitations. But pitchers do get hurt, and they all get hurt doing the same thing - pitching. It’s not hard for me to believe that the pitching he did in Boston was enough to hurt himself. Especially as he has had TJ before.

 

I don’t like their apparent apathy, but this team might not be as bad as many think. They do need to abandon the Bloom practice of using bullpen arms to replace starters, and then following up by not replacing the bullpen arms. They still have options. They do have the money. They just lack the actual moves even to tweak this staff…

[notin]

Mazzlive.com August 23,2023 had us ranked as the #5 farm system. google it. as did Baseball America

 

Ok. But doesn’t that counter your original point, if there farm is that good by some evaluation technique?

[dgalehouse]

If you consistently finish in the basement, you should be able to improve your farm system with the better draft picks. At least that is what it's meant to do. But I would take all of the " official " farm system rankings with the proverbial grain of salt.

[notin]

If you consistently finish in the basement, you should be able to improve your farm system with the better draft picks. At least that is what it's meant to do. But I would take all of the " official " farm system rankings with the proverbial grain of salt.

 

Yes in some respects. It’s largely a prediction of the future, and anyone whose job involves predicting the future from baseball scouts to weathermen to economists can and will be wrong sometimes. It turns out, for example, maybe ranking Garin Cecchini ahead of Mookie Betts just might not play out as such. Also it isn’t raining in Chicago today, much to Tom Skilling’s chagrin.

 

But on the other hand, the ranking on the individual player does carry some value even as a minor leaguer, as it can enhance their value in a trade…

[moonslav59]

i never said a poster but i did read somewhere we were ranked that high at one time

 

Okay.

 

Some do rank us that highly, but I’d say most of us think we are top 10 or 12.

[mvp 78]

@pgammo

Sportico Top 5 MLB Franchise Values:Yankees $7.93B, Dodgers $6.3B, Red Sox $5.96B, Cubs $5.31B, Giants $4.2B

 

Up 9% from last year. It's why winning doesn't really matter to Henry. The value of the Sox won't tank unless he actively pours gasoline on the franchise. For now, being an absentee owner and cutting payroll isn't hurting its value.

[moonslav59]

@pgammo

Sportico Top 5 MLB Franchise Values:Yankees $7.93B, Dodgers $6.3B, Red Sox $5.96B, Cubs $5.31B, Giants $4.2B

 

Up 9% from last year. It's why winning doesn't really matter to Henry. The value of the Sox won't tank unless he actively pours gasoline on the franchise. For now, being an absentee owner and cutting payroll isn't hurting its value.

 

So, the team value increase by over $500M in one year and JH can't afford $25M for Monty.

 

Got it.

[Duran Is The Man]

So, the team value increase by over $500M in one year and JH can't afford $25M for Monty.

 

Got it.

 

another reason why my contempt (and much of RSN, i'm sure) for Henry continues to reach new highs.

[mvp 78]

So, the team value increase by over $500M in one year and JH can't afford $25M for Monty.

 

Got it.

 

Yup.

[mvp 78]

another reason why my contempt (and much of RSN, i'm sure) for Henry continues to reach new highs.

 

Double yup.

[Bellhorn04]

Got a few words for us, Sam? How's it looking from where you guys are sitting?

[Randy Red Sox]

@pgammo

Sportico Top 5 MLB Franchise Values:Yankees $7.93B, Dodgers $6.3B, Red Sox $5.96B, Cubs $5.31B, Giants $4.2B

 

Up 9% from last year. It's why winning doesn't really matter to Henry. The value of the Sox won't tank unless he actively pours gasoline on the franchise. For now, being an absentee owner and cutting payroll isn't hurting its value.

 

that is exactly why he won't sell and we will be a .500 team for years to come

[Elktonnick]

Interesting developments on MLB seeking a national tv package similar to that of the nfl with the streaming services such as Netflix et al. Big market teams such as Yankees and Red Sox oppose for now. But if this does happen NESN would be toast possibly.

 

One of the big reasons for MLBs interest in pursuing such a deal is cord cutting. Consumers are moving rapidly away from cable opting for streaming services.

 

Depending on the details of such a deal this would affect Henry's ownership of the Sox especially if MLB approves a deal which Henry opposes. It's a development worth watching.

[notin]

Interesting developments on MLB seeking a national tv package similar to that of the nfl with the streaming services such as Netflix et al. Big market teams such as Yankees and Red Sox oppose for now. But if this does happen NESN would be toast possibly.

 

One of the big reasons for MLBs interest in pursuing such a deal is cord cutting. Consumers are moving rapidly away from cable opting for streaming services.

 

Depending on the details of such a deal this would affect Henry's ownership of the Sox especially if MLB approves a deal which Henry opposes. It's a development worth watching.

 

So now MLB is concerned that people might not be able to watch their product? Given their antiquated and moronic blackout rules, this was clearly never a concern before…

[Randy Red Sox]

So now MLB is concerned that people might not be able to watch their product? Given their antiquated and moronic blackout rules, this was clearly never a concern before…

 

when the Red Sox become worth watching again I will give a damn.

[Bellhorn04]

So now MLB is concerned that people might not be able to watch their product? Given their antiquated and moronic blackout rules, this was clearly never a concern before…

 

What they've been doing with 'streaming-exclusive' games is arguably even worse.

[notin]

What they've been doing with 'streaming-exclusive' games is arguably even worse.

 

Yeah MLB has always had bigger priorities than simply using advertising revenue. And this is the one game whose very structure is so conducive to commercial breaks…

[Bellhorn04]

The objective of pro sports is to soak us all for every last dollar they can.

 

Now a lot of those dollars are coming from the ultimate source of sucker money - gambling revenue.

[notin]

The objective of pro sports is to soak us all for every last dollar they can.

 

Now a lot of those dollars are coming from the ultimate source of sucker money - gambling revenue.

 

 

Somewhere Pete Rose is editing his forgiveness plea by substituting the word “irony” every time he originally chose “hypocrisy”…

[Bellhorn04]

Somewhere Pete Rose is editing his forgiveness plea by substituting the word “irony” every time he originally chose “hypocrisy”…

 

Yes, the hypocrisy about gambling is off the charts. Roger Goodell was adamantly opposed to any gambling tie-ins just a few years ago. Something changed in his thinking.

[dgalehouse]

MLB is big business. They are in it for the money. But that's life. You work for your money , and other people want you to give it to them. MLB may find out that folks are not so willing or able to give any more of their money to them.

[Randy Red Sox]

another reason why my contempt (and much of RSN, i'm sure) for Henry continues to reach new highs.

 

would it really be that unreasonable to expect old miser John Henry to actually talk and lay out what his exact plans are?? No I didn't expect he would actually do that but it would be nice