Red Sox ownership

[Dipre]

Jesus Christ, my bad for opening this can of worms.

[notin]

Jesus Christ, my bad for opening this can of worms.

 

Bauer is a modern day Keyser Soze…

[mvp 78]

Jesus Christ, my bad for opening this can of worms.

 

You thought it was a simple can of peanuts, but it was a springy snake motherf***er!!!

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Such a notable line here from @alexspeier:

 

"If the Sox have a lower payroll... It would mark the first time under this ownership that the team reduced payroll for tax purposes by design in back-to-back years."

 

"Hurr durr, why did you guys expect them to actually spend this offseason?"

[mvp 78]

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/1/25/24045834/the-red-sox-dont-need-john-henry-and-tom-werner-free-agent-rumors-news-liverpool-fenway-sports-group

[Bellhorn04]

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/1/25/24045834/the-red-sox-dont-need-john-henry-and-tom-werner-free-agent-rumors-news-liverpool-fenway-sports-group

 

Holy s***, this is an incredible piece of work. A must read for Sox fans right now. She's a long one though, fellas.

[mvp 78]

Holy s***, this is an incredible piece of work. A must read for Sox fans right now. She's a long one though, fellas.

 

I didn't know that about Real Madrid. I'd pay yearly dues if I had to.

 

I had no idea about the history of the Padres and Joan Kroc. It's a shame that MLB squashed her wishes for public ownership of that franchise.

[jad]

A very very depressing read. But a good one for anyone who believes sports owners give a crap about their customers or their communities.

[Hitch]

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/1/25/24045834/the-red-sox-dont-need-john-henry-and-tom-werner-free-agent-rumors-news-liverpool-fenway-sports-group

 

Using Real Madrid (and Jesus Christ - Barcelona!) as an argument for fan run clubs is so f***ing lazy it beggars belief. This guy hasn't done even the most basic amount of research you'd expect a journalist to attempt.

 

Let me preface by saying - fan ownership in part would be great. Bu you would want the German model at the absolute least, because most fans are emotional idiots without a care in the world outside of their team winning. And they need grown ups to tell them to shut the f*** up some times.

 

Case in point - Real and Barca are ridiculously run clubs. The Spanish government was found in 2016 to be illegally funding both clubs. Why? Because of the politics of having constant elections to see who runs two of the most powerful organisations in world football.

 

Football in Europe isn't like the collection of MLB/NFL/NHL/NBA in the US. Football is everything. It's the only sport that matters. It dwarfs everything else. Madrid and Barca are seen as the glamour clubs. Every player dreams of getting to play for one of these clubs. And everyone wants to be in control of these clubs because it is to be in control of European football (well it used to be - more on that in a bit)

 

Each and every new President up for election at these two clubs promises the same things - the best players in the world no matter the price. And they get voted in by the fans every time. Nobody is voting for stability. And then each and every President wants to hold on to their power.

 

Real Madrid has spent themselves into so much debt, they were forced to sell their training ground to the Spanish authorities (for a huge mark up of course), which afterwards, the Spanish government just handed back to them, for free. Yeah, that actually happened. And this brand spanking £1billion stadium that this wonderful club of fans was able to build? Have a guess where the money come from?

 

Barcelona, were as recently as just a year or so ago, unable to register players to play in their league as they had overspent by such a gigantic margin that unofficially, they were in danger of going under. But of course, the Spanish government can't allow this to happen and so things were massaged and pressure put on the Spanish league to help them through this crisis. La Liga (the Spanish League) has been battling its two most successful teams for years. Just trying to get them to operate in the boundaries of their own huge financial reach. They fail over and over. La Liga is currently losing out on over £3billion of investment because Barca and Madrid won't sign off a TV deal (yes these two alone can stop the entire Spanish league system from doing anything), because they don't think they're getting enough money from it.

 

By the way 50% of the revenue in Spanish football? It has to go to Real Madrid and Barcelona. By law. (It used to be 90%!) That's like the Dodgers and Yankees getting 50% of MLB revenues, and still spending themselves into such a lather the government has to step in to save them. Repeatedly. And this journalist is excitedly pointing out that the two most financially doped football clubs in the history of European football have won the most? What an achievement.

 

And to top this all off - they recently tried to destroy the fabric of European football by convincing the top 20 teams in Europe to leave their domestic competitions (and hundreds of years of tradition) and compete in a new and ringfenced super league where they'd get EVEN MORE money.

 

When the fans of the clubs in England selected to join found out about this, they rioted. Literally. Manchester United fans broke into their own stadium and started tearing it apart. All the fans of all the clubs were sickened by the greed. Apart from Real and Barca's fans - who's Presidents, are still to this day, demanding UEFA (European football authority) is overthrown and a new super league is formed.

 

They are absolutely TERRIBLE examples of fan led clubs. They are despised by everyone (including their own league), corrupt beyond belief and a cancer on European football. It's astonishing these were the examples he decided to use in this article.

 

 

 

Fan-led clubs can be a good thing. And as I say the German model (that he gave one sentence to in that article), is a much better option. Because you need business and/or economic people making the major economic decisions so that clubs don't destroy themselves in the act of trying to satisfy they're unsatisfiable fans. But why kid yourself into thinking it will ever happen in the US? They needed the government to bring in all encompassing legislation in Germany. Every special interest lobby is trying their damned hardest to stop the same thing happening in England right now. The US government is never doing that and even if they did - which fans are ponying up the billions needed to buy the club back from the owners?

 

 

In closing, I'll say what I said the other day - often it's better the devil you know. English (and large swathes of European) football has sold its soul. We now have situations where countries and oil states own their most precious clubs. Saudi Arabia, Russia (through Abramovic until recently), Qatar, Abu Dhabi and others have bought countless teams and are slowly destroying the landscape of European football. And worse of all, they're just using these cherished institutions as sport washing devices. And then there's the venture capitals that buy the clubs by loading them with debt they've financed against their assets and leeching off them until they're destroyed. Clubs over a 100 years old have disappeared because of this. A club that your great great grandfather watched, gone, because someone came in and loaded a once thriving club with debt which it succumbs to. All so the investors can stirp it of millions for personal gain first.

 

 

I don't know what the answer is - there's no perfect situation. No perfect solution. I know there'll be people who will just ignore all this and call Henry the Devil. You've not even come close to knowing the Devil, and I hope for Boston's sake, you never get to. There's only so many groups that can afford to buy these clubs now. And trust me on this, none are perfect.

[Hitch]

Ownership is about to get another headache. Jurgen Klopp (Liverpool manager) has just announced he's stepping down at the end of the year.

 

There is a not an insignificant group of fans that want Henry and the crew out of Liverpool, too. Although in this case, Liverpool spend what they bring in, so they're mostly idiots. But the pre-mentioned purchases of clubs by oil rich gulf states means Liverpool cannot compete financially with these teams. That is, without Klopp. With him they have been punching massively above their weight and competing for the biggest titles in world football year after year. A large group of fans believe we should be matching their spending even though we simply do no bring in the same money.

 

Liverpool have had incredibly good management from Klopp and his assistants up to the governors at board level. Unless they absolutely nail the replacement structure (and Liverpool has been built around the character and personality of Klopp), the fans will turn on the ownership ever more when the good times start to dissipate.

[wyo-sox]

Ownership is about to get another headache. Jurgen Klopp (Liverpool manager) has just announced he's stepping down at the end of the year.

 

There is a not an insignificant group of fans that want Henry and the crew out of Liverpool, too. Although in this case, Liverpool spend what they bring in, so they're mostly idiots. But the pre-mentioned purchases of clubs by oil rich gulf states means Liverpool cannot compete financially with these teams. That is, without Klopp. With him they have been punching massively above their weight and competing for the biggest titles in world football year after year. A large group of fans believe we should be matching their spending even though we simply do no bring in the same money.

 

Liverpool have had incredibly good management from Klopp and his assistants up to the governors at board level. Unless they absolutely nail the replacement structure (and Liverpool has been built around the character and personality of Klopp), the fans will turn on the ownership ever more when the good times start to dissipate.

 

They should totally hire Bill Bellichick.... He's available. Ted Lasso the hell out of that league.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's bad enough being a Red Sox fan in a Bloomslow offseason, but when a guy you trust like Alex Speier deflects, it gets really depressing.

 

In the Globe's Sunday Baseball Notes, Speier tells us how two execs with Boston roots turned down interviews to CBO the Sox because they were too comfortable working for other teams. Major factors cited were less stress and family considerations.

 

Fair enough... but there was nothing about the other eight non-candidates and facts like regular last place finishes and continual lack of spending on top talent for the starting rotation. Also not mentioned were widely-held industry doubts about the tenuous job security and ultimate power of a Red Sox CBO in a front office already filled with established lifers posing as VPs and Assistants VPs.

[mvp 78]

It's bad enough being a Red Sox fan in a Bloomslow offseason, but when a guy you trust like Alex Speier deflects, it gets really depressing.

 

In the Globe's Sunday Baseball Notes, Speier tells us how two execs with Boston roots turned down interviews to CBO the Sox because they were too comfortable working for other teams. Major factors cited were less stress and family considerations.

 

Fair enough... but there was nothing about the other eight non-candidates and facts like regular last place finishes and continual lack of spending on top talent for the starting rotation. Also not mentioned were widely-held industry doubts about the tenuous job security and ultimate power of a Red Sox CBO in a front office already filled with established lifers posing as VPs and Assistants VPs.

 

Until we get quotes concerning the "widely-held industry doubts" I think the family considerations and less stress due to the other markets legitimately the biggest reason people are passing.

[Bellhorn04]

It's bad enough being a Red Sox fan in a Bloomslow offseason, but when a guy you trust like Alex Speier deflects, it gets really depressing.

 

In the Globe's Sunday Baseball Notes, Speier tells us how two execs with Boston roots turned down interviews to CBO the Sox because they were too comfortable working for other teams. Major factors cited were less stress and family considerations.

 

Fair enough... but there was nothing about the other eight non-candidates and facts like regular last place finishes and continual lack of spending on top talent for the starting rotation. Also not mentioned were widely-held industry doubts about the tenuous job security and ultimate power of a Red Sox CBO in a front office already filled with established lifers posing as VPs and Assistants VPs.

 

Yeah, I think that was what you'd call a 'puff piece' by Alex. Sunday Baseball Notes seems to be reserved for more pleasant stuff.

[Bellhorn04]

Until we get quotes concerning the "widely-held industry doubts" I think the family considerations and less stress due to the other markets legitimately the biggest reason people are passing.

 

We'll never know so we must speculate in accordance with our personal biases. My bias tells me it was an unusual number to pass on a seemingly golden opportunity because of family considerations.

[Old Red]

Until we get quotes concerning the "widely-held industry doubts" I think the family considerations and less stress due to the other markets legitimately the biggest reason people are passing.

 

But Sam said Boston would be the place where everyone would want to be.🤫

[Bellhorn04]

But Sam said Boston would be the place where everyone would want to be.

 

Sam "Mr. Credibility" Kennedy

[Old Red]

Sam "Mr. Credibility" Kennedy

 

That shows how out of touch he is.

[mvp 78]

But Sam said Boston would be the place where everyone would want to be.

 

Sam is a freakin' idiot. (term initially used by moon the day Chris Sale was traded back in 2016)

[mvp 78]

That shows how out of touch he is.

 

It has nothing to do with the thoughts about job security (probably a perceived issue) or ultimate power of a CBO vs EVP's (I'm dubious on this).

[Elktonnick]

Sam is a freakin' idiot. (term initially used by moon the day Chris Sale was traded back in 2016)

 

Stalin once purportedly said about Mikoyan who was his Foreign Minister at the time," If I told him to pull down his pants and sit on a block of ice for an hour, I know he would do it."

Strikes me that the same can be said about Kennedy. And yes the FO does remind me of the Kremlin.

[Old Red]

Red Sox equipment truck leaves for Florida next week. To cut down on expenses JH is having Sam, and Bres drive the truck down.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Red Sox equipment truck leaves for Florida next week. To cut down on expenses JH is having Sam, and Bres drive the truck down.

 

And spend on all that gas? Shift into neutral -- Brez, you steer... Sam, get out and push.

 

Tomase today, looking with the rest of us for some semblance of any PLAN: "... when the prospects arrive, the pressure will be on them to perform immediately, and that's a big ask. It took Bogaerts four years to make his first All-Star team and seven to blossom into a true superstar. Jacoby Ellsbury's breakout came in his fifth season. Even the brilliant Betts didn't truly blossom until his third season."

 

Roki Sasaki will be 30 in 2032. Hopefully, he'll have an opt-out by then and can be signed as a window upgrade... as the build-out dictates.

[mvp 78]

And spend on all that gas? Shift into neutral -- Brez, you steer... Sam, get out and push.

 

Tomase today, looking with the rest of us for some semblance of any PLAN: "... when the prospects arrive, the pressure will be on them to perform immediately, and that's a big ask. It took Bogaerts four years to make his first All-Star team and seven to blossom into a true superstar. Jacoby Ellsbury's breakout came in his fifth season. Even the brilliant Betts didn't truly blossom until his third season."

 

Roki Sasaki will be 30 in 2032. Hopefully, he'll have an opt-out by then and can be signed as a window upgrade... as the build-out dictates.

 

Jacoby was a 4.2 fWAR guy in year 2. I don't think anyone saw that 9 fWAR coming or thought a second would show up.

 

Xander had 4.6 fWAR in his second full year and SS is a notoriously stacked position, so All Star voting would be a hard measure there. You're underselling how good he was early on.

 

Gunnar in BAL won the ROY with 4.6 fWAR last season. Adley has had back to back 5 fWAR seasons. Those two helped bring that team to the playoffs without needing to get to 9 fWAR or whatever.

 

Will this crop of players feature the next Mookie Betts? Probably not! Mookie Betts is an all time great.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Jacoby was a 4.2 fWAR guy in year 2. I don't think anyone saw that 9 fWAR coming or thought a second would show up.

 

Xander had 4.6 fWAR in his second full year and SS is a notoriously stacked position, so All Star voting would be a hard measure there. You're underselling how good he was early on.

 

Gunnar in BAL won the ROY with 4.6 fWAR last season. Adley has had back to back 5 fWAR seasons. Those two helped bring that team to the playoffs without needing to get to 9 fWAR or whatever.

 

Will this crop of players feature the next Mookie Betts? Probably not! Mookie Betts is an all time great.

 

Those are Tomase's quotes, not mine. I'd argue Rutschman turned that franchise around in half a season. Too bad Baltimore wants to be Boston South and not spend big to upgrade its pitching -- even IN their window.

 

Ya, that Betts was a good one... but it's obvious he didn't want to stay in Boston, where he couldn't become a cartoon character on Puppy Dog Pals.

[Elktonnick]

Several reports on Boston sports radio that FSG has offered 3 billion dollars for a minority share in the PGA tour. If these reports turn out to be true, they would confirm my longstanding view that John Henry's main focus is expanding FSGs portfolio not the Red Sox roster.

[Bellhorn04]

Several reports on Boston sports radio that FSG has offered 3 billion dollars for a minority share in the PGA tour. If these reports turn out to be true, they would confirm my longstanding view that John Henry's main focus is expanding FSGs portfolio not the Red Sox roster.

 

Just one correction: the $3 billion is actually coming from "Strategic Sports Group", a consortium that includes Fenway Sports Group and numerous other investors including Steve Cohen.

 

But I've come around to much the same view as you, that the Red Sox are not benefiting from being part of this group, but quite the opposite, they're being damaged by it.

[Old Red]

Several reports on Boston sports radio that FSG has offered 3 billion dollars for a minority share in the PGA tour. If these reports turn out to be true, they would confirm my longstanding view that John Henry's main focus is expanding FSGs portfolio not the Red Sox roster.

I’ve been saying for two years every time that someone post JH past spending habits that this is not the same JH, so what he did in the past is irrelevant to what he will do now. He wasn’t involved in NASCAR, or the NHL, and now golf to name 3 things, and the Red Sox just aren’t as shiny of a bauble as it used to be.

[Bellhorn04]

I’ve been saying for two years every time that someone post JH past spending habits that this is not the same JH, so what he did in the past is irrelevant to what he will do now. He wasn’t involved in NASCAR, or the NHL, and now golf to name 3 things, and the Red Sox just aren’t as shiny of a bauble as it used to be.

 

And now it's like JH is going out of his way to make all this blatantly obvious to Sox fans.

[Old Red]

And now it's like JH is going out of his way to make all this blatantly obvious to Sox fans.

 

Some fans are finally coming around now to understand that. Past spending habits are just that. A thing of the past.