Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[Hugh2]

The Astros are a clear-cut example of a team tanking. It's not even in dispute, really.

 

How did they tank?

[Hugh2]

I agree on the pitching part, but I don’t think you need to rest every day players the last month if the team is out of it. Should Raffy been rested? Like I said fans pay big bucks, especially in Boston, and want to see their best team on the field when they go watch them.

 

No he shouldn't. But lets say he wakes up with a little stiff neck, and maybe you play him when you're in a playoff hunt, but no need to play him with a heightened chance of injury so I think you're more cautious with your long term access. I mean, did the Sox do a lot of that down the stretch? they mostly played their starters.

 

I think this happens more in other sports like the NBA, I can certainly relate to spending money on a game and maybe you can only afford to do that once a year, and you're watching the JV team play.

 

I don't think management goals are always going to be in align with what fans want, but I personally believe that it doesn't ever really make sense to tank in baseball. Nobody wants to lose, and the incentive to getting a #1 overall pick isn't the same in baseball as it would be in.....lets say the NFL.

[Bellhorn04]

How did they tank?

 

Google "Did the Astros tank" - there are a zillion stories about it.

[notin]

The Astros are a clear-cut example of a team tanking. It's not even in dispute, really.

 

I don’t think anyone is really disputing it…

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think anyone is really disputing it…

 

Hugh seems to be.

[Hugh2]

Google "Did the Astros tank" - there are a zillion stories about it.

 

I'm curious, no arguing, if there's a zillion stories and its' that well known I figured it would be easy to say they purposely sat good players and started AAA guys, or they instructed players to tip pitches etc etc. I don't know how the functionally tanked.

[moonslav59]

How did they tank?

 

They even told their fans they were not going to spend money to try and win, now. They laid out their strategy for everyone to see. They were even sued by their cable company.

 

If you see tanking as telling the players to try and lose, then no, they did not "tank," in that sense, but they intentionally put a horrible 25 man roster in the dugout with the expressed purpose of hoarding top draft picks for the future.

 

They told fans to look to the future and promised they would spend big in the future.

 

Maybe, we just have different interpretations on differing forms of "tanking." Most feel the upper management of The Astros "tanked" the team for a 3-5 year period.

[moonslav59]

I'm curious, no arguing, if there's a zillion stories and its' that well known I figured it would be easy to say they purposely sat good players and started AAA guys, or they instructed players to tip pitches etc etc. I don't know how the functionally tanked.

 

You don't think purposely putting inferior players on the field with the purpose of losing, so you get top picks is a form of "tanking?"

 

I agree, I do not think anyone told players or the manager to intentionally lose games.

[Hugh2]

There's a very stark difference to tanking in the NBA "we are pulling players and not doing any matchups" vs. MLB. were you just don't put the resources into a team that isn't ready to compete.

 

Like, there would be a difference between NOT playing Ohtani, and then consciously making the decision to not go out and sign him. The later is happens, and seems to be how "tanking" is done in the MLB but that's very different than what tanking in other sports is.

[notin]

There's a very stark difference to tanking in the NBA "we are pulling players and not doing any matchups" vs. MLB. were you just don't put the resources into a team that isn't ready to compete.

 

Like, there would be a difference between NOT playing Ohtani, and then consciously making the decision to not go out and sign him. The later is happens, and seems to be how "tanking" is done in the MLB but that's very different than what tanking in other sports is.

 

But MLB teams do tank. Did you see the 2020 Red Sox starting rotation? Ryan Weber was the opening day #3.

 

You cannot tell me a team trying to compete if their best option to start the third game of the year was Ryan Weber. Ryan Weber is to starting pitching what White Castle is to fine dining. Simply put, he’s where you end up when you’re not even trying and only worried about money…

[Hugh2]

You don't think purposely putting inferior players on the field with the purpose of losing, so you get top picks is a form of "tanking?"

 

I agree, I do not think anyone told players or the manager to intentionally lose games.

 

How much does that really happen? maybe you move up a few spots yada yada yada. But it's not like trying to throw a whole season, baseball is also very different. You don't have a fringe top prospect in the NFL AAA team down in Worcester that may or may not be able to be a starter next year. You need to figure those things out and being able to do so is very important. Playing a guy like Abreu, or Rafaela a few times a week is very very very different than "we want to lose, how do we play the game today so we definitely lose" I don't think the former happens in baseball.

 

Lets say the Sox brought up Drohan, and Gonzelez, and played Rafaela and Abreu and they went on a TEAR in september and missed the playoffs by one game.

 

NO ONE is sitting around thinking "omg no, we didn't get a top ten pick" rather you're excited for next year.

 

Now, lets take another sport, like the NBA. You have no shot at the championship but you play your heart out to a .500 record. How content are you? how great do you feel about the future?

 

Player development is so much different in baseball, you don't HAVE to have top ten picks every year to have a top farm system or even get a MVP caliber player. I just do not believe that any team, with malice and intent purposely try to lose a large sum of games during the year.

[Hugh2]

But MLB teams do tank. Did you see the 2020 Red Sox starting rotation? Ryan Weber was the opening day #3.

 

You cannot tell me a team trying to compete if their best option to start the third game of the year was Ryan Weber. Ryan Weber is to starting pitching what White Castle is to fine dining. Simply put, he’s where you end up when you’re not even trying and only worried about money…

 

So is Ryan Weber just not that good? or did they play him on purpose so they'd lose? or was he instructed to pitch badly on purpose??? What other options did the Sox have in their rotation? it's not like they were sitting their ACE. Not pumping resources into a s*** team is different than sitting all your starter. Unless of course, all the Sale injuries were fake. Maybe the Sox didn't want to play Sale because they wanted better draft picks all this time.

[Hugh2]

You don't think purposely putting inferior players on the field with the purpose of losing, so you get top picks is a form of "tanking?"

 

I agree, I do not think anyone told players or the manager to intentionally lose games.

 

I think in baseball that's more done to see what you have in guys and give them time to adjust to big-league pitching when the games don't count. In other sports, I think it's much more intentional.

[notin]

I'm curious, no arguing, if there's a zillion stories and its' that well known I figured it would be easy to say they purposely sat good players and started AAA guys, or they instructed players to tip pitches etc etc. I don't know how the functionally tanked.

 

Tanking and throwing games are not (necessarily) the same thing. In MLB, the easiest way to tank is just field a cheap team that will struggle to compete. It doesn’t agitate give the draft success a team might want, but it will save money, which is also sometimes the goal…

Edited October 28, 2023 by notin

[Hugh2]

Lets think of it this way.

 

You're the owner of a sports franchise, it's either a baseball, hockey, football, or basketball team. ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL HERE, the money, your revenue, your love for all four sports etc etc etc.

 

The only difference is you have to pick being an owner of one, and whichever one you chose you're getting 5 #1 picks overall in a row.

 

Which sport are you choosing? No one is picking baseball. I'm not a big enough hockey fan to put baseball last on that list, but I certainly wouldn't put baseball ahead of the NBA or the NFL.

[notin]

So is Ryan Weber just not that good? or did they play him on purpose so they'd lose? or was he instructed to pitch badly on purpose??? What other options did the Sox have in their rotation? it's not like they were sitting their ACE. Not pumping resources into a s*** team is different than sitting all your starter. Unless of course, all the Sale injuries were fake. Maybe the Sox didn't want to play Sale because they wanted better draft picks all this time.

 

They used Weber because he had the one skill they were looking for - the ability to pitch for around the league minimum. The Sox that year has a goal of resetting the luxury tax penalties. Doing so many cutting salary and getting below limit, which would definitely impact the team on the field. But yes, that is a form of tanking and the usual way it’s done in MLB.

 

Some teams tie in the added wrinkle of trading away high priced talent. Betts and Price, for example…

Edited October 28, 2023 by notin

[notin]

Lets think of it this way.

 

You're the owner of a sports franchise, it's either a baseball, hockey, football, or basketball team. ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL HERE, the money, your revenue, your love for all four sports etc etc etc.

 

The only difference is you have to pick being an owner of one, and whichever one you chose you're getting 5 #1 picks overall in a row.

 

Which sport are you choosing? No one is picking baseball. I'm not a big enough hockey fan to put baseball last on that list, but I certainly wouldn't put baseball ahead of the NBA or the NFL.

 

You’re operating on the assumption that draft picks are the only reason teams tank. In MLB, the draft is too much of a crapshoot. It can be done for other financial reasons…

[Bellhorn04]

You’re operating on the assumption that draft picks are the only reason teams tank. In MLB, the draft is too much of a crapshoot. It can be done for other financial reasons…

 

Yes, it has multiple benefits. You get higher draft picks, you keep big contracts off the books, you bank more money. Then when the time is right you go for it. The Cubs and Astros did it to perfection.

[notin]

Yes, it has multiple benefits. You get higher draft picks, you keep big contracts off the books, you bank more money. Then when the time is right you go for it. The Cubs and Astros did it to perfection.

 

 

My only point was it’s no guarantee.

 

It’s sometimes hard to separate the tanking teams from the low budget teams. Like I can’t call the A’s tankers. But the White Sox last year - they gave up on a list 2023, probably wisely so. We’ll see if it continues into 2024, but I have my doubts…

[harmony]

Did Craig Breslow ever pitch against Texas Ranger VP and general manager Chris Young when Breslow was at Yale and Young at Princeton?

 

The former Ivy Leaguers, born 15 months apart, have returned to their geographical roots as MLB executives.

On April 8, 2000, Chris Young and the eventual Ivy League champion Princeton Tigers shut out Craig Breslow's last-place Yale Bulldogs:

 

Chris Young (So., Dallas, Texas) tied a career high with 10 strikeouts in a one-hit shutout of Yale. He held the Bulldogs hitless for 5.2 innings.

 

https://goprincetontigers.com/news/2000/4/10/670734?path=general

 

Breslow was a sophomore closer for Yale that season:

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/21437/

Edited October 28, 2023 by harmony

[dgalehouse]

I think a fan buying a ticket to see a major league baseball game has a right to expect that the teams are trying their best to compete and to win. And not just the players, but the manager and front office as well.

[moonslav59]

My only point was it’s no guarantee.

 

It’s sometimes hard to separate the tanking teams from the low budget teams. Like I can’t call the A’s tankers. But the White Sox last year - they gave up on a list 2023, probably wisely so. We’ll see if it continues into 2024, but I have my doubts…

 

Nobody has hinted at tanking guaranteeing great draft picks or the ability to afford top FAs that work out well.

 

We ar arguing that teams set up their rosters to try and lose, so they better their position for the future- via better draft picks in every round, more bonus pool money and a cleared up budget for the time the team decides to go "all in."

 

Some teams never end up going all in. They "tank" or whatever you want to call it to make more money by spending less.

[moonslav59]

I think a fan buying a ticket to see a major league baseball game has a right to expect that the teams are trying their best to compete and to win. And not just the players, but the manager and front office as well.

 

What's the reality for maybe 6-10 MLB teams in the gutter, every season?

[MADSTORK]

Lmmfao!

 

Great work John, 99% of the time an ex-player hire in the Front Office is and becomes what we called in the Military a cluster f##k…

See the Bruins and that disaster of a franchise, but that’s for another day

 

Henry should have shown Kennedy the door paving the way for Epstein to run the entire organization

Epstein steps away from the Cubs in 20, breezelow in charge of pitching, cubs in 21 22 under .500 a few games above in 23 and 1 pitching prospect in mlb’s top 100 prospects, brilliant hire!

 

If breezelow doesn’t revamp the Minor League Scouting Drafting and Development department first and foremost by showing Crockett Abrahams Romero and every other swinging d!ck involved in the process the door, ain’t nothing going to change

 

Free Agent targets- Bellinger Snell

Trade target- Soto

Trade bait- Casas (see above) Verdugo Yoshida Houck Jansen

 

Prospects that should be untouchable at all cost - Yorke Mayer Teel Rafaela

 

Those are the facts and the facts are undisputed

[Randy Red Sox]

Lmmfao!

 

Great work John, 99% of the time an ex-player hire in the Front Office is and becomes what we called in the Military a cluster f##k…

See the Bruins and that disaster of a franchise, but that’s for another day

 

Henry should have shown Kennedy the door paving the way for Epstein to run the entire organization

Epstein steps away from the Cubs in 20, breezelow in charge of pitching, cubs in 21 22 under .500 a few games above in 23 and 1 pitching prospect in mlb’s top 100 prospects, brilliant hire!

 

If breezelow doesn’t revamp the Minor League Scouting Drafting and Development department first and foremost by showing Crockett Abrahams Romero and every other swinging d!ck involved in the process the door, ain’t nothing going to change

 

Free Agent targets- Bellinger Snell

Trade target- Soto

Trade bait- Casas (see above) Verdugo Yoshida Houck Jansen

 

Prospects that should be untouchable at all cost - Yorke Mayer Teel Rafaela

 

Those are the facts and the facts are undisputed

 

Yorke is FAR from untouchable.

[Bellhorn04]

Yorke is FAR from untouchable.

 

STORK is the board's untouchable troll.

[Randy Red Sox]

STORK is the board's untouchable troll.

 

i just don't know where Yorke would player once Mayer gets here

[moonslav59]

Yorke is FAR from untouchable.

 

His repeated mention of Yorke and not Anthony and others exposes his ignorance.

[moonslav59]

i just don't know where Yorke would player once Mayer gets here

 

Maybe?

 

1B/DH Devers/Casas

2B Yorke

SS Mayer

3B Story

[oldtimer]

Maybe?

 

1B/DH Devers/Casas

2B Yorke

SS Mayer

3B Story

That possibility would relegate Yoshida to the trade market. That move would remove one defensive liability, however neither Mayer or Yorke have proven themselves at the ML level.