Bloom fired

[Old Red]

The Sox are headed for their 3rd last place finish in the ALE in a row. Bloom's moves and in some case lack of them contributed to this, although a case can be made that DD left us in dire straights. I don't see that we had a plan for resolving the pitching issues in 2024 so moving on from Bloom made sense to me. A question remains in my mind about Cora. He managed the team during the last 3 year period. Did the Sox perform as well as we might have under his tenure? If the answer to that is no, Then maybe a complete shift of leadership is in order. If the new GM wants to make that call, perhaps he should be allowed to.

I don’t believe Bloom made the last call on Cora, and Sam said he expects Cora to be the manager next year, so unless they just stay in house with Romero it doesn’t sound like a new GM type will get to pick.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m not so sure that big splash will be made, but who knows. If the pitching, and D doesn’t improve the team won’t improve. I’d hate to think they will trot out something resembling the lineup they are using right now minus JT.

 

There will be splash, I guarantee it. They've already set the tone for that with the "Our fans deserve better" message. If they don't follow up on that, the Nation will be more pissed than ever, and there will be no doubt who they're most pissed at.

[Elktonnick]

Bloom could still most likely have a job had he gotten the Red Sox in the postseason the last two years especially this one.

I do not think so. DD still says he does not know why JH fired him.

 

P

[Old Red]

As I just said in another thread, Red Sox media all seem to think Cora is still very much in the good graces of ownership.

 

The thing is, if we're firing Bloom because he did a lousy job constructing the 2022-2023 teams, it's hard to blame Cora too.

 

It would have taken a miracle for the 2023 Red Sox and their pitiful starting rotation to make the playoffs.

 

I not always a big fan of Cora, but I don’t believe any manager could have gotten anymore out of this cluster f—- of a roster.

[Old Red]

There will be splash, I guarantee it. They've already set the tone for that with the "Our fans deserve better" message. If they don't follow up on that, the Nation will be more pissed than ever, and there will be no doubt who they're most pissed at.

 

I don’t see it being the Big O, or the splashy Yam, so we’ll see.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t see it being the Big O, or the splashy Yam, so we’ll see.

 

I hope it's the Y not the O. We don't need any more DH's. But we sure as hell need starting pitching.

[Elktonnick]

I not always a big fan of Cora, but I don’t believe any manager could have gotten anymore out of this cluster f—- of a roster.

While that is true, Cora made things worse and his coaching staff especially Bush is a disaster.

[Old Red]

While that is true, Cora made things worse and his coaching staff especially Bush is a disaster.

 

How many marathons did Bush run out to the mound all season? Like it did any good.

[Old Red]

I hope it's the Y not the O. We don't need any more DH's. But we sure as hell need starting pitching.

 

I’d be a lot more encouraged with the old JH than with the one now.

[Elktonnick]

How many marathons did Bush run out to the mound all season? Like it did any good.

 

s*** can the lot! New broom sweeps clean.

[Bellhorn04]

While that is true, Cora made things worse and his coaching staff especially Bush is a disaster.

 

I'll be surprised if Bush is back next year.

[Bellhorn04]

While that is true, Cora made things worse and his coaching staff especially Bush is a disaster.

 

I'm a Cora fanboy, so I'm biased, but I think Bloom's roster deficiencies made Cora look bad this year. I thought it was noteworthy that Shaughnessy was clearly defending Cora and blaming Bloom for this year's fiascos like the Barraclough game.

[notin]

I do not think so. DD still says he does not know why JH fired him.

 

P

 

 

If that’s true, it doesn’t say much for DD…

[Bellhorn04]

If that’s true, it doesn’t say much for DD…

 

DD's comments about it were pretty classy, I thought. He said he was hurt because JH didn't say a word to him about why he was gone. DD said about 3 sentences about it, said he didn't want to say any more about it and that was that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

In another thread I pointed out how in Bloom's four-year Reign of Error the Red Sox led the MLB in Es.

 

Cora's all-timers in 2018 had the 3rd-fewest.

 

How does a team suddenly go from really good to terrible defense -- unless there are different players on the rosters assembled by a new CBO..

[notin]

DD's comments about it were pretty classy, I thought. He said he was hurt because JH didn't say a word to him about why he was gone. DD said about 3 sentences about it, said he didn't want to say any more about it and that was that.

 

Classy or not, 2019 was a big mess that was not going to clean irself up for a long time. Even if you don’t like the 2023 team, it could be tutt try Ned around relatively quickly since there aren’t nearly as many albatross contracts…

[Bellhorn04]

Classy or not, 2019 was a big mess that was not going to clean irself up for a long time. Even if you don’t like the 2023 team, it could be tutt try Ned around relatively quickly since there aren’t nearly as many albatross contracts…

 

But then we come back to the question of whether DD didn't just do exactly what he thought he was hired to do. Make some big moves and win a championship. Done and done.

 

High-priced pitchers are riskier than ever. Now someone is going to have to take that risk again.

[Bellhorn04]

Classy or not, 2019 was a big mess that was not going to clean irself up for a long time. Even if you don’t like the 2023 team, it could be tutt try Ned around relatively quickly since there aren’t nearly as many albatross contracts…

 

Also - the 2021 team did fine with a few tweaks by Bloom. If he had done as well in 2022 and 2023 this thread might not exist.

[notin]

Also - the 2021 team did fine with a few tweaks by Bloom. If he had done as well in 2022 and 2023 this thread might not exist.

 

Basically he kept quitting midseason.

 

The Sox were less than 4 games out of the post season at the last two trading deadlines, and in both cases really needed any healthy pitchers they could get. And instead would up with Eric Hosmer - a player no one wanted even for free - and Luis Urias. At least Urias might be useful next year. But the obvious issue is neither can pitch. Really not sure what baseball abilities Hosmer still had that point…

[notin]

But then we come back to the question of whether DD didn't just do exactly what he thought he was hired to do. Make some big moves and win a championship. Done and done.

 

High-priced pitchers are riskier than ever. Now someone is going to have to take that risk again.

 

I’m sure he was hired to win. But he wasn’t hired to build an 84 win team for$240 mill and tie up $300mill with off-injured pitchers while team budding stars like a Betts remained unsigned. Heck even the contract he gave Bogaerts was pretty stupid.

 

If he was just hired for that brief summary you stated, why not oversimplify Bloom’s tenure?

 

He was hired to rebuild the farm and build the MLB team on a budget. Done and done…

Edited September 16, 2023 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

I’m sure he was hired to win. But he wasn’t hired to build an 84 win team for$240 mill

 

Ridiculously unfair LOL. He didn't "build an 84 win team". He won 3 divisions and a title before that one disappointing 84 win season. And the 2021 team did just fine with many DD holdovers.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[sk7326]

The Sox are headed for their 3rd last place finish in the ALE in a row. Bloom's moves and in some case lack of them contributed to this, although a case can be made that DD left us in dire straights. I don't see that we had a plan for resolving the pitching issues in 2024 so moving on from Bloom made sense to me. A question remains in my mind about Cora. He managed the team during the last 3 year period. Did the Sox perform as well as we might have under his tenure? If the answer to that is no, Then maybe a complete shift of leadership is in order. If the new GM wants to make that call, perhaps he should be allowed to.

 

There is no way you watch the 2021 Red Sox and think that Cora left meat on the bone.

 

Now remember, Bloom came from the outside and ALSO looked at managers and came back to Cora. That might not happen again - but multiple baseball heads think very highly of him.

 

You can always nitpick - but Cora did a pretty good job managing the pitching staff ... the injuries and personnel just created a low floor.

Edited September 16, 2023 by sk7326

[Bellhorn04]

If he was just hired for that brief summary you stated, why not oversimplify Bloom’s tenure?

 

He was hired to rebuild the farm and build the MLB team on a budget. Done and done…

 

Problem is the Red Sox front office specifically told the fans Bloom was hired to rebuild and be a playoff contender while doing so.

[notin]

Ridiculously unfair LOL. He didn't "build an 84 win team". He won 3 divisions and a title before that one disappointing 84 win season. And the 2021 team did just fine with mostly DD holdovers.

 

He absolutely did build an 84 win team.

 

His 4 years, the team won 93, 93, 108 and 84 games. Which of those numbers strikes you as the outlier?

 

Two of his titles came with 93 win teams and came during a 3 year stretch in which no AL East team won 94 games. In 2018, the Sox went off and won 108 games. But Tampa and NY surged, too, and both continued that success in 2019 while the Sox found them selves plummeting out of competition, middling the postseason by an dozen games, and leading the East in payroll alone. And they didn’t have anyone in the farm system to provide immediate help while a completely f***ed up payroll bogged them down.

 

This is why it’s odd Dombrowski didn’t know why he was fired. He did basically the same thing in Detroit.

 

But, hey, 2018! Right?

[Old Red]

I’m sure he was hired to win. But he wasn’t hired to build an 84 win team for$240 mill and tie up $300mill with off-injured pitchers while team budding stars like a Betts remained unsigned. Heck even the contract he gave Bogaerts was pretty stupid.

 

If he was just hired for that brief summary you stated, why not oversimplify Bloom’s tenure?

 

He was hired to rebuild the farm and build the MLB team on a budget. Done and done…

 

Nobody knows what Bloom was told when he was hired, but lowering the payroll, and improving the farm rankings he did. Not rebuild the farm, but improve the rankings. Problem was #1 priority of the here, and now was staying a winning competitive postseason team, which he failed to do. What was done, and done was three of his 4 years was out of the postseason, and looking like last place in the Div finishes, so done, and done he gone.

[Bellhorn04]

He absolutely did build an 84 win team.

 

His 4 years, the team won 93, 93, 108 and 84 games. Which of those numbers strikes you as the outlier?

 

108 is the outlier, sure. But 3 years in a row with 93 or better is pretty good IMHO.

 

If we want to fixate on W-L records, Bloom has 1 good one and 3 terrible ones. And what you're saying is he built this 2023 mess of a team and that's what should be emphasized.

[Dipre]

Cora being a good manager and terrible results are not mutually exclusive. This roster was a s***-show. Anyone who says Cora is a bad manager is delusional. If they go with a new voice, it wasn't because of a lack of effectiveness by Cora.

[Old Red]

He absolutely did build an 84 win team.

 

His 4 years, the team won 93, 93, 108 and 84 games. Which of those numbers strikes you as the outlier?

 

Two of his titles came with 93 win teams and came during a 3 year stretch in which no AL East team won 94 games. In 2018, the Sox went off and won 108 games. But Tampa and NY surged, too, and both continued that success in 2019 while the Sox found them selves plummeting out of competition, middling the postseason by an dozen games, and leading the East in payroll alone. And they didn’t have anyone in the farm system to provide immediate help while a completely f***ed up payroll bogged them down.

 

This is why it’s odd Dombrowski didn’t know why he was fired. He did basically the same thing in Detroit.

 

But, hey, 2018! Right?

 

Boy what most Red Sox fans would give now for a 84 win team. What they won’t give is Bloom anymore chances. 93, 93, 108, 84. Those were the good old days. Last 4 years for the most part was gloom, and doom.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Old Red

[sk7326]

He absolutely did build an 84 win team.

 

His 4 years, the team won 93, 93, 108 and 84 games. Which of those numbers strikes you as the outlier?

 

Two of his titles came with 93 win teams and came during a 3 year stretch in which no AL East team won 94 games. In 2018, the Sox went off and won 108 games. But Tampa and NY surged, too, and both continued that success in 2019 while the Sox found them selves plummeting out of competition, middling the postseason by an dozen games, and leading the East in payroll alone. And they didn’t have anyone in the farm system to provide immediate help while a completely f***ed up payroll bogged them down.

 

This is why it’s odd Dombrowski didn’t know why he was fired. He did basically the same thing in Detroit.

 

But, hey, 2018! Right?

 

He was fired for doing exactly what ownership asked him to do. That was even more true in Detroit. I mean, Detroit has struggled when they got old - but they made the World Series, an ALCS and were relevant and competitive to some degree or another.

 

The big crime Dombrowski made (in retrospect) was not adding players in 2018/19 offseason - but clearly ownership did not have an appetite for that. The big drivers of the dropoff in 2019 were dropoffs by Sale and Porcello - and the fickle realities of middle relief pitching on Earth.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora being a good manager and terrible results are not mutually exclusive. This roster was a s***-show. Anyone who says Cora is a bad manager is delusional. If they go with a new voice, it wasn't because of a lack of effectiveness by Cora.

 

You know your baseball, Dipre.