Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

I think any deal with Duran, not including Mayer, Teel, Anthony, Bleis or Rafaela would have to include Houck, Whitlock or Crawford plus Wikelman or Perales. I'm not even sure how good of a SP'er we can get with these 3 players.

 

I think Duran having 5 years of control does really help his trade value. His league minimum salary also will have appeal with even teams like Oakland and Pittsburgh...

[notin]

But then, a cynic might point out that the "mess" Bloom was handed included the best and one of the most popular players in the league, whom he promptly got rid of. There's that.

 

You think he should have held him and let him walk through free agency? It doesn't seem like trading Betts was just something he did to shake things up...

[notin]

Yes, he was handed a mess. 2020 was a writeoff and 2021 was a pleasant surprise.

 

2022 and 2023 were the make or break years for Chaim.

 

And he chose to let them break him...

[notin]

I like playing devil's advocate, I must admit. I was not unhappy when they fired Bloom, but I'm very unhappy right now, and I'm seeing a lot of signs that Bloom wasn't the real problem, or was far from the only problem. Maybe he was getting a lot of confusing and contradictory messages just like we are now.

 

It's sort of up to Breslow to prove that a competent CBO can rise above all that confusion. Good luck, Crag.

 

Bloom definitely made his share of mistakes. Some mistakes are going to happen with anyone; every GM with a long enough tenure has Corey Kluber somewhere in his history. With Bloom, it was simply more about what he didn't do...

[Old Red]

Yes, he was handed a mess. 2020 was a writeoff and 2021 was a pleasant surprise.

 

2022 and 2023 were the make or break years for Chaim.

 

I wouldn’t call it a mess that Bloom was handed, but he sure made it a mess. He had 3 years to deal with expiring contracts, and what did he do, or didn’t do? Word is out there he had a chance to get rid of Sale, and his ENTIRE contract, and didn’t do it. He also let JD, Nate, and Bogey’s contact just run out. A good, or a competent HOBO would have done a better job, which Bloom wasn’t.

[mvp 78]

they just need to hire more VPs.

 

Lose your fanbase and not win any more games with one weird trick!

[Bellhorn04]

But then, a cynic might point out that the "mess" Bloom was handed included the best and one of the most popular players in the league, whom he promptly got rid of. There's that.

 

I'm cynical as hell myself. But I firmly believe the mandate to trade Betts came from Bloom's bosses.

 

That's been further confirmed by the reports that Dombrowski was engaged in talks with the Dodgers about a trade for Betts at the 2019 deadline. I highly doubt that was all Dave's idea.

[mvp 78]

In that case I'd question if it's worth it, because Duran may turn out to deliver much more value. If we're only getting someone a bit better than Bello, might as well just let Bailey try practicing his alchemy on what we have.

 

Sox need to be willing to lose a trade if they actually want to compete this season. That's why the Sox always had one foot out the door under Bloom, he was never bold enough.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom definitely made his share of mistakes. Some mistakes are going to happen with anyone; every GM with a long enough tenure has Corey Kluber somewhere in his history. With Bloom, it was simply more about what he didn't do...

 

In the end, Werner predictably looked to a TV show to solve the Bloom problem:

 

The Sopranos episode when the mob holds an intervention for Christopher, then they all beat him up.

[mvp 78]

It seems to me, the Astros have let more bid name players walk than the Sox, over the past 5-7 years. The always seem to have someone ready to step in, and they spend moderately to add, where needed most. They do not always hit on their signings, either. Most of their strength has come up through their system. They even had 5 homegrown starters in their rotation, a few times, here and there.

 

Here is a partial list of players not extended or re-signed since 2017:

 

George Springer (.852 OPS w HOU, including .953 his last 2 yrs, plus PO heroics)

Dallas Keuchel (Cy Young winner and 3.66 ERA w HOU)

Charlie Morton (3.36 ERA w HOU)

Gerritt Cole (2.68 ERA w HOU and top 5 in CY voting, both years)

Carlos Correa (.837 OPS w HOU & .860 PO OPS)

Zack Greinke (3.89 w HOU, but was 37 y/o.)

Justin Verlander (2 Cy Awards and a 2nd place finish in 4 years, plus PO heroics)

 

 

Chris Freakin' Sale

Xander Freakin' Bogaerts

JD Freakin' Martinez

Mookie Freakin' Betts

Rick Freakin' Porcello (CY Winner a la Keuchel)

E Freakin' Rod

Andrew Freakin' Benintendi ('21 GG, '22 AS)

Nathan Freakin' Eovaldi (had a pretty good playoffs this year)

Craig Freakin' Kimbrel (108 saves in 3 years for BOS, 3 AS games)

[mvp 78]

I think any deal with Duran, not including Mayer, Teel, Anthony, Bleis or Rafaela would have to include Houck, Whitlock or Crawford plus Wikelman or Perales. I'm not even sure how good of a SP'er we can get with these 3 players.

 

Per BTV:

 

BOS

Duran

 

for

 

HOU

Javier

Garcia

Pressly

$25M

[mvp 78]

Frankly I think Breslow has already explored this stuff and found out he wasn't getting much without giving up one of the big three. And that's why nothing has happened.

 

The most likely scenario. All their eggs are in the Marcelo/Anthony/Teel basket.

[mvp 78]

Yes, he was handed a mess. 2020 was a writeoff and 2021 was a pleasant surprise.

 

2022 and 2023 were the make or break years for Chaim.

 

Was 2021 Chaim's 2013?

[mvp 78]

I wish I shared your confidence. My fear is that they'll continue to sit on their hands and then say, "We were in on him but it didn't work out".

OTOH my HOPE is that Theo will tell Breslow to get his fingers out of his ass and do SOMETHING even if it turns out not to be right.

 

Most likely it's Theo needing to tell Henry to loosen the purse strings or allow Crag to change the direction the org is headed. Right now, we're in a waiting game on prospects that may never pan out.

[mvp 78]

Today's announcement of the season-long Netflix docuseries explains a lot.

 

1. The Red Sox must be saving any big roster moves for the first episode. That's good TV!

 

2. Now we know what Werner, Sam and Brez really mean when they stress the importance of winning the Series.

 

3. But don't be cynical -- does anyone actually think Theo is going to let this be a weekly expose of how bad Boston sucks?

 

4. And the owners can't possibly allow this to be a six-month chronicle of Fenway Park being invaded by fans from LA, NY, Toronto and St. Louis... can they?

 

Last night I watched the very first episode of Black Mirror. I think this season of the Red Sox will probably be reminiscent of that.

[Bellhorn04]

Was 2021 Chaim's 2013?

 

The parallels between Ben's 4 years and Bloom's 4 years are striking, sir.

[mvp 78]

I think Duran having 5 years of control does really help his trade value. His league minimum salary also will have appeal with even teams like Oakland and Pittsburgh...

 

A's don't have a single player on BTV that matches Duran's value.

 

BTV accepts

 

Mitch Keller

 

for

 

Jarren Duran

[mvp 78]

I wouldn’t call it a mess that Bloom was handed, but he sure made it a mess. He had 3 years to deal with expiring contracts, and what did he do, or didn’t do? Word is out there he had a chance to get rid of Sale, and his ENTIRE contract, and didn’t do it. He also let JD, Nate, and Bogey’s contact just run out. A good, or a competent HOBO would have done a better job, which Bloom wasn’t.

 

Let the contracts run out, offered QO's BUT OOOOPSIE WE WENT OVER THE CBT STUPIDLY SO THE COMP PICKS ARE 4TH ROUNDERS INSTEAD OF LATE 1ST ROUNDERS!!!!

[moonslav59]

I wish I shared your confidence. My fear is that they'll continue to sit on their hands and then say, "We were in on him but it didn't work out".

OTOH my HOPE is that Theo will tell Breslow to get his fingers out of his ass and do SOMETHING even if it turns out not to be right.

 

Good to see you around, Dewey.

 

I have zero confidence we make another big move.

 

I have very little confidence we can have a confluence of things going right in 2024 and see any kind of postseason glory.

 

It's more wishful thinking than even hope, on my part.

 

[moonslav59]

Chris Freakin' Sale

Xander Freakin' Bogaerts

JD Freakin' Martinez

Mookie Freakin' Betts

Rick Freakin' Porcello (CY Winner a la Keuchel)

E Freakin' Rod

Andrew Freakin' Benintendi ('21 GG, '22 AS)

Nathan Freakin' Eovaldi (had a pretty good playoffs this year)

Craig Freakin' Kimbrel (108 saves in 3 years for BOS, 3 AS games)

 

If you are going to include Beni and Porcello, who basically retired, then I'll add Beltran, McAnn and several others.

[Bellhorn04]

I wouldn’t call it a mess that Bloom was handed, but he sure made it a mess. He had 3 years to deal with expiring contracts, and what did he do, or didn’t do? Word is out there he had a chance to get rid of Sale, and his ENTIRE contract, and didn’t do it. He also let JD, Nate, and Bogey’s contact just run out. A good, or a competent HOBO would have done a better job, which Bloom wasn’t.

 

Now let's see how Cragsy does. I'm not excited by any of his moves just yet. And it sure seems like someone has the budget clampers on him.

[moonslav59]

Per BTV:

 

BOS

Duran

 

for

 

HOU

Javier

Garcia

Pressly

$25M

 

I think BTV grossly under values Javier and Garcia. I'm not sure HOU does this for just one of them.

 

I'm also not sure they would kick in $10M, let alone $25M, but I'd love this deal for the Sox.

 

If we did this, we'd probably trade Jansen.

 

[moonslav59]

Let the contracts run out, offered QO's BUT OOOOPSIE WE WENT OVER THE CBT STUPIDLY SO THE COMP PICKS ARE 4TH ROUNDERS INSTEAD OF LATE 1ST ROUNDERS!!!!

 

That was insane. The one year, we get two decent comp picks, we mess it up.

[notin]

A's don't have a single player on BTV that matches Duran's value.

 

BTV accepts

 

Mitch Keller

 

for

 

Jarren Duran

 

 

The deal that makes the most sense for both sides is Duran to SD for RHP Michael King…

[Bellhorn04]

The deal that makes the most sense for both sides is Duran to SD for RHP Michael King…

 

And the smart money continues to be on the Sox doing absolutely nothing...

[Old Red]

Now let's see how Cragsy does. I'm not excited by any of his moves just yet. And it sure seems like someone has the budget clampers on him.

 

I’m still going to wait, and see how things look on Mar 28, but I agree there is no excitement on anything done yet.

[mvp 78]

If you are going to include Beni and Porcello, who basically retired, then I'll add Beltran, McAnn and several others.

 

Beltran -1.2 fWAR, zero impact for HOU, bad example

McCann only 2 seasons and less important than Christian Vazquez who I didn't mention

 

Porcello was a fair comp for Keuchel who you mentioned.

[mvp 78]

Now let's see how Cragsy does. I'm not excited by any of his moves just yet. And it sure seems like someone has the budget clampers on him.

 

I can't say I'm "excited" per se, but I think his trades so far have been competent. Wish he had done more, but seems like he's been reigned in. If he was the CBO in previous years, he may have been able to deal more of those expiring contracts that I wanted to see moved.

[mvp 78]

That was insane. The one year, we get two decent comp picks, we mess it up.

 

That's why some of the "why did they fire Bloom" stuff is easy enough for me to ignore. Bloom definitely had his faults. Even if you liked his direction, he made some big mistakes along the way.

[mvp 78]

The deal that makes the most sense for both sides is Duran to SD for RHP Michael King…

 

Fine with me.