Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Then Henry and the rest of ownership shouldn't have any say in who gets signed, just in overall budget. It has been theorized that they pushed for Panda and Hanley. If so, it wasn't Ben that needed to be tossed.

 

There are always theories that any unpopular signings were the result of some unpopular front office personnel. Lucchino took the brunt of those theories for years. But at some point, it’s probably just Confirmation Bias. Ben didn’t have the biggest budget, but it’s not hard to believe he also made poor choices every now and then.

 

It’s not hard to blame any GM can make a bad move, especially regarding free agency. The only GM whose never made a bad move is any GM whose never made a move.

 

Henry did plenty to handcuff Ben when Cherington was in charge. Including keeping payroll do tight the Sox had to trade Marco Scutaro just to accommodate Cody Ross. These are not upper tier derailed players I’m talking about. To me, the biggest surprise of Henry’s tenure has been when he basically gave Dombrowski free reign to spent what he wanted where he wanted for multiple seasons…

Edited January 18, 2024 by notin

[mvp 78]

There are always theories that any unpopular signings were the result of some unpopular front office personnel. Lucchino took the brunt of those theories for years. But at some point, it’s probably just Confirmation Bias. Ben didn’t have the biggest budget, but it’s not hard to believe he also made poor choices every now and then.

 

It’s not hard to blame any GM can make a bad move, especially regarding free agency. These guys are not psychics and they learn about the future the same way we all do - by waiting for it to become the present.

 

Henry did plenty to handcuff Ben when Cherington was in charge. Including keeping payroll do tight the Sox had to trade Marco Scutaro just to accommodate Cody Ross. These are not upper tier derailed players I’m talking about. To me, the biggest surprise of Henry’s tenure has been when he basically gave Dombrowski free reign to spent what he wanted where he wanted for multiple seasons…

 

Aside from constructing the 2013 roster, Ben did a pretty bad job signing FA's, drafting and following rules regarding IFA signings. I wouldn't put it by him to sign Panda and Hanley, but it's in the ether that it was driven by ownership for ratings.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are always theories that any unpopular signings were the result of some unpopular front office personnel. Lucchino took the brunt of those theories for years. But at some point, it’s probably just Confirmation Bias. Ben didn’t have the biggest budget, but it’s not hard to believe he also made poor choices every now and then.

 

It’s not hard to blame any GM can make a bad move, especially regarding free agency. The only GM whose never made a bad move is any GM whose never made a move.

 

…

 

But Bloom sure did make some bad moves by not making moves.

 

Ya, ya, it was easy for posters to suggest dozens of guys he didn't or wouldn't sign, or didn't deal for or dump at the deadlines -- and none of us have been hired by the Red Sox since.

 

But none of us has been fired by the Red Sox for not making those moves, either...

[mvp 78]

But Bloom sure did make some bad moves by not making moves.

 

Ya, ya, it was easy for posters to suggest dozens of guys he didn't or wouldn't sign, or didn't deal for or dump at the deadlines -- and none of us have been hired by the Red Sox since.

 

But none of us has been fired by the Red Sox for not making those moves, either...

 

He was fired for inaction that's for sure.

[Bellhorn04]

He was fired for inaction that's for sure.

 

Honestly we have no clue exactly why he was fired.

[notin]

Aside from constructing the 2013 roster, Ben did a pretty bad job signing FA's, drafting and following rules regarding IFA signings. I wouldn't put it by him to sign Panda and Hanley, but it's in the ether that it was driven by ownership for ratings.

 

I think Ben played a big part on the decision, if not the only part. Henry may have a history is limiting his budgets, but not in dictating what players to get…

[notin]

He was fired for inaction that's for sure.

 

 

While I don’t know that for certain, my feeling is if he wasn’t, he should have been…

[Bellhorn04]

While I don’t know that for certain, my feeling is if he wasn’t, he should have been…

 

But you thought he should have added, and the stories that leaked out were about him not selling off.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Ben played a big part on the decision, if not the only part. Henry may have a history is limiting his budgets, but not in dictating what players to get…

 

I think Larry said to Ben: 'you pick one and I'll pick one, and we'll announce them together'.

[moonslav59]

Just getting rid of the negative fWAR (-1.1) from starting Jacques, Kluber, Ort, et al will boost the overall rating of the starters to begin with.

 

I say that every year, with hitters lost, too, but someone always takes their place.

[mvp 78]

Honestly we have no clue exactly why he was fired.

 

Wrong. Henry complained about inaction at the deadlines in '22 and '23. Bloom f***ed up the CBT in '22. He had offers to trade JD and Sale in '22 and was unable to do so. He had two straight last place finishes in '22 and '23. Bloom openly questioned his own FA acquisitions (Story, Masa). While he moved the needle on the farm system, he was really unable to do much with the MLB squad except waste money.

[mvp 78]

I think Ben played a big part on the decision, if not the only part. Henry may have a history is limiting his budgets, but not in dictating what players to get…

 

He has stated in the past that he told Theo not to sign CC, but reluctantly agreed to the contract.

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong. Henry complained about inaction at the deadlines in '22 and '23.

 

Got a link to that story?

 

Time we nailed this down!

[moonslav59]

He was fired for inaction that's for sure.

 

Inaction plus over half his biggest "actions" were failure or are looking like failures, so far.

 

300+ Devers- TBD

140 Story- off to a not so good start

100+ Yoshida- off to a not so good start

34- Kike- one good year/ 2 bad FA + extension)

32 Jansen- Good, so far

19- Barnes- bad (extension)

18- Martin- Great, so far

11- Perez- not so good

10- Richards- Bad

10- Kluber- Bad

 

Had he just gone 50-50 on his big spendings, he might still be here. (Just Eflin & Nate instead of Kluber & Yoshida?)

[notin]

He has stated in the past that he told Theo not to sign CC, but reluctantly agreed to the contract.

 

For the record, I would argue telling your GM NOT to sign someone isn’t the same as telling them who to sign. I’ll accept it at the “meddling” level, but it’s not “dictating”…

[mvp 78]

While I don’t know that for certain, my feeling is if he wasn’t, he should have been…

 

What else would he have been fired for?

[mvp 78]

Got a link to that story?

 

Time we nailed this down!

 

http://trustmebro.com

[Bellhorn04]

What else would he have been fired for?

 

The word 'scapegoat' has been used plenty of times.

[moonslav59]

What else would he have been fired for?

 

Could be more than one reason.

 

I'd put messing up 6-7 of your biggest 10 signings high on the list with inaction.

[Bellhorn04]

Could be more than one reason.

 

I'd put messing up 6-7 of your biggest 10 signings high on the list with inaction.

 

The problem with those 10 biggest signings is that many of them were actually small.

 

The only reason I'm defending Bloom is that it looks more and more like the real culprit is Henry's tight-fistedness.

[mvp 78]

The word 'scapegoat' has been used plenty of times.

 

Firing a CBO to hire a new CBO but not change anything isn't going to do s*** for goodwill. There had to be another reason than "we need to just fire a guy to shield ourselves from blame." Blame from what?

[mvp 78]

Could be more than one reason.

 

I'd put messing up 6-7 of your biggest 10 signings high on the list with inaction.

 

I'm sure it wasn't just one thing. Bad signings. Bad MLB teams. Bad trade deadlines. Probably a lot of the other murmurs played a part too.

[Bellhorn04]

Firing a CBO to hire a new CBO but not change anything isn't going to do s*** for goodwill. There had to be another reason than "we need to just fire a guy to shield ourselves from blame." Blame from what?

 

Blame for cutting the payroll, for losing Betts and Bogaerts, and for finishing under .500 over and over.

[mvp 78]

The problem with those 10 biggest signings is that many of them were actually small.

 

The only reason I'm defending Bloom is that it looks more and more like the real culprit is Henry's tight-fistedness.

 

He could have spent those dollars in better ways though. Kluber sucked. Why not sign Wacha? Story has been bad. Why not use that money for Gausman? Instead of the AAV of Richards, sign Taijuan Walker.

[Bellhorn04]

He could have spent those dollars in better ways though. Kluber sucked. Why not sign Wacha? Story has been bad. Why not use that money for Gausman? Instead of the AAV of Richards, sign Taijuan Walker.

 

Yeah, I'm not even disagreeing with you guys.

 

I'm just thinking that if there are no more significant moves this offseason, and the Sox win 78 games again, who do we blame then?

[mvp 78]

Yeah, I'm not even disagreeing with you guys.

 

I'm just thinking that if there are no more significant moves this offseason, and the Sox win 78 games again, who do we blame then?

 

To me, it's 100% on ownership this year.

[moonslav59]

The problem with those 10 biggest signings is that many of them were actually small.

 

The only reason I'm defending Bloom is that it looks more and more like the real culprit is Henry's tight-fistedness.

 

Yes, "small" when compared to many of today's contracts, but you'd think he'd be do better than 0-4 on SP'ers paid $10M or more:

 

Perez

Richards

Paxton

Kluber

 

(I forgot JT on the list, which was a good signing, so maybe 3-4 out of 11 were good or still pending.)

 

Had he gone 2-4, and I'm not talking greatness- just a decent 4.25 ERA with 25 GS and 160+ IP, we'd have been closer to not finishing last so often.

 

The Barnes and Kike signings were $17M or more: both were not good.

 

His two largest signings, which were not small, have started out looking bad- Yoshi & Story.

 

Surely, this is part of the reason he was let go. These signings were a pretty significant reason we have not done well in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

 

His biggest and good impact signings were:

Turner- 12

Kike- year 1 only at 7

Wacha 7

Duval -7

R Hill -5

Strahm- 3

Renfroe -3

 

He did better in the $3-9M range. Bad ones: Diekman -8, Marwin 3.

[moonslav59]

To me, it's 100% on ownership this year.

 

Agreed.

 

I think it was more than 50% on ownership starting in 2019, but it seems others thought Bloom was the major blame target.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Blame for cutting the payroll, for losing Betts and Bogaerts, and for finishing under .500 over and over.

 

And for letting fans of the Blue Jays, Cardinals, Dodgers and Mets take over Fenway Park.

 

This is the only antisocial media I frequent, so someone let me know if the Red Sox front office has celebrated selling blocks of tickets every weekend to fans who cheer for the other side... or if Henry and Werner are heroes with the Chamber of Commerce for boosting the tourism economy in the city.

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

I think it was more than 50% on ownership starting in 2019, but it seems others thought Bloom was the major blame target.

 

Full throttle, err pushing all the levers, but not allowing the team to even have the payroll of the 2023 team is quite the position of ownership.

 

We want you to be the Colorado Rockies, but good.