Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

Where has anyone lamented playing in the AL East?

 

Acknowledging it isn’t whining…

 

FSU was left out of the college playoffs because of their easier schedule. They ended up proving they did not belong.

 

I'm not whining or complaining about our tougher schedule. It is what it is. In 2022, we killed non ALE teams. In 2023, we did not.

 

To me, a team that is 78-84, but plays a much tougher schedule than another 78-84 team with an easier schedule is probably better. That does not change the fact that we were not good enough to pass any ALE team, the last two years. We obviously were not. We still ended up with a mediocre record that may be a bit misleading, due to the tougher schedule. It's part of the game and the rules. Call it unfortunate, or whatever you want, but facts are facts. It is likely were were not as bad as our record indicated, just like ALA, GA and others were not a worse team than FSU.

 

We have not been one of the worst 10 teams in MLB since 2020. We have not been a top 10 team, since 2021.

 

It sucks to finish in last place, and the stigma that goes with that is hard to shake off. I'm not whining about the schedule. I like playing the Yanks more than others do.

[Old Red]

But you're the main whiner and complainer on this board. What the hell is happening?

 

Not when it’s been about the 2024 season. I’ve been one of the more positive ones, and have repeatedly said let’s see what things look like on March 28.

[Dipre]

That’s always your standard response on topics. Talk about discrediting. You told me I couldn’t say that I think Sale is going to stay healthy this year, and have a good year for the Braves. Why was your reasoning? Because I called him Frail Sale when he was in Boston as did many other Red Sox fans.

 

So is he or isn't he Frail? You really can't have it both ways.

[moonslav59]

If you win 85 games and finish last you might have a case. If you win 78 games the last place arguments all become academic. As Dipre would say, you're bad and you should feel bad.

 

No doubt, we were bad. Nobody is saying otherwise.

 

There are, however, degrees of being bad. I know us Sox fans view any season of missing the playoffs as horrible, but IMO, we were not as bad as our record showed, the last 2 years. Maybe we weren't as good as our 2021 record showed, but the nice playoff run kinda showed we were that good. It's not crying. It's not whining. It sucks finishing last, but IMO, we were still about as good as half the teams in MLB, the last 2 years combined, for what that is worth.

 

Obviously that "worth" mean less to some than others, which is fine. I hate finishing last, too, but I'd rather go 78-84 in the ALE than 79-83 in the ALC.

 

We finished 20th in wins. (10 teams were worse.

 

We finished 8 games from 15th and 4 games from 16th We've been pretty mediocre, within the context of strength of schedule. This is NOT a complaint or some sort of excuse.

[moonslav59]

But you're the main whiner and complainer on this board. What the hell is happening?

 

If we were so bad the last 2 years, and look worse on paper, why is complaining something weird?

[mvp 78]

Get your own catchphrase.

 

Get your own freakin' catchphrase. As said by moonslav the day Chris Sale was traded for back in 2016.

[Old Red]

FSU was left out of the college playoffs because of their easier schedule. They ended up proving they did not belong.

 

I'm not whining or complaining about our tougher schedule. It is what it is. In 2022, we killed non ALE teams. In 2023, we did not.

 

To me, a team that is 78-84, but plays a much tougher schedule than another 78-84 team with an easier schedule is probably better. That does not change the fact that we were not good enough to pass any ALE team, the last two years. We obviously were not. We still ended up with a mediocre record that may be a bit misleading, due to the tougher schedule. It's part of the game and the rules. Call it unfortunate, or whatever you want, but facts are facts. It is likely were were not as bad as our record indicated, just like ALA, GA and others were not a worse team than FSU.

 

We have not been one of the worst 10 teams in MLB since 2020. We have not been a top 10 team, since 2021.

 

It sucks to finish in last place, and the stigma that goes with that is hard to shake off. I'm not whining about the schedule. I like playing the Yanks more than others do.

 

FSU was not left out of the college playoffs because of their easier schedule, but because Alabama, and Saban was a more attractive pick. FSU finished ahead in the AP, and the coaches poll.

I don’t really care if the Red Sox are a better team than a team in a weaker Div with the same or similar record. It doesn’t get you anywhere. Like I keep saying I would rather play in the TOUGHEST Div in baseball than play in the weakest Div, and let the chips fall, which ever way.

[mvp 78]

I'd believe in the Red Sox' chances a lot more if they actually improved their starting rotation. Which they could do, even on the cheap, but it seems like they're just unwilling to spend. If they're just waiting out the market and sign a couple arms that can absorb innings without being horrible, the optimist in me can come back.

 

Low risk, low reward IMO. 80-82 season.

[mvp 78]

There has been whining on here for the last two months.Its like the 2024 season has already started, and It’s like the Red Sox already have a losing record, they are last in the Div, and calls are going out for a firesale.

 

People are saying the Sox should trade players, because the owners have explicitly stated that they will not spend further on the team. The only way to get better is via trade.

[Old Red]

If we were so bad the last 2 years, and look worse on paper, why is complaining something weird?

 

I didn’t know the game was played on paper, but I guess the 2024 season that hasn’t even started yet actually does.

[jad]

So we are now arguing about whether a 78-84 team can be as good as an 81-81 team? Isn't that kinda like arguing for Verdugo's taking a pitch for a ball that Betts might have fouled off for a strike? or the classic argument for JBJ's strikeouts being more valuable than hitting into double-plays?

[mvp 78]

So we are now arguing about whether a 78-84 team can be as good as an 81-81 team? Isn't that kinda like arguing for Verdugo's taking a pitch for a ball that Betts might have fouled off for a strike? or the classic argument for JBJ's strikeouts being more valuable than hitting into double-plays?

 

It's better than yesterday afternoon discourse!

[Old Red]

People are saying the Sox should trade players, because the owners have explicitly stated that they will not spend further on the team. The only way to get better is via trade.

 

I said that before the offseason even started that the only way to make the team better was to trade, because even with a new HOBO, and full throttle i didn’t see any big dollar FA signing. Now it looks like no big trades are going to be made either, so you have to go with what you got. It’s not like there is no talent at all on the team. Just like I thought the 2021 team would be better after the 2020 debacle, because there was still plenty of talent on the team that 2024 even as is may turn out better than most think.

[Old Red]

It's better than yesterday afternoon discourse!

 

Wasn’t yesterday’s discourse round 2 from a previous brew ha ha?

[notin]

So we are now arguing about whether a 78-84 team can be as good as an 81-81 team? Isn't that kinda like arguing for Verdugo's taking a pitch for a ball that Betts might have fouled off for a strike? or the classic argument for JBJ's strikeouts being more valuable than hitting into double-plays?

 

No. It’s not. Next question…

[mvp 78]

I said that before the offseason even started that the only way to make the team better was to trade, because even with a new HOBO, and full throttle i didn’t see any big dollar FA signing. Now it looks like no big trades are going to be made either, so you have to go with what you got. It’s not like there is no talent at all on the team. Just like I thought the 2021 team would be better after the 2020 debacle, because there was still plenty of talent on the team that 2024 even as is may turn out better than most think.

 

If they are going with what they got, don't expect all that much improvement from last year.

[notin]

People are saying the Sox should trade players, because the owners have explicitly stated that they will not spend further on the team. The only way to get better is via trade.

 

I think the people advocating trading players are referring to Jansen and Martin, because a team coming of 78 wins will probably never have a ninth inning lead. Ever.

 

I think I hold them until the deadline, simply because this team isn’t finished and the off-season is far from over. But once Snell/Montgomery sign elsewhere, I would deal both. You will get more for a full season of Jansen and Martin than a half season. And the hopes for a team paying up out of desperation are offset by the possibility of one or both getting hurt in the next 7 months…

[notin]

If they are going with what they got, don't expect all that much improvement from last year.

 

What constitutes “much improvement”?

[mvp 78]

Wasn’t yesterday’s discourse round 2 from a previous brew ha ha?

 

If Bauer is unsigned this offseason, we can look forward to talking about him all year.

[mvp 78]

What constitutes “much improvement”?

 

Serious playoff contention. 87-88 wins.

[Bellhorn04]

Get your own catchphrase.

 

C'mon man, that was tribute.

[moonslav59]

People are saying the Sox should trade players, because the owners have explicitly stated that they will not spend further on the team. The only way to get better is via trade.

 

Exactly. I'm not for trading away any one year players, if we added Monty & Duvall.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what was so bad about being optimistic last January, but being pessimistic, this January is wrong.

[Old Red]

If they are going with what they got, don't expect all that much improvement from last year.

 

Casa may produce all year, Story may actually stay healthy, and resemble something like he was in Colorado, Yoshida may produce all year, and yes even Raffy may have a better year. That’s a start, and yes even the D may even be better this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly. I'm not for trading away any one year players, if we added Monty & Duvall.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what was so bad about being optimistic last January, but being pessimistic, this January is wrong.

 

It's because this front office has f***ed up our heads. If they're confused as hell (they are), why shouldn't we be confused as hell?

[notin]

If Bauer is unsigned this offseason, we can look forward to talking about him all year.

 

Will we?

 

I’ve been as willing to give him a second chance as anyone. But the reality of the situation is, MLB teams are simply not willing. Period. They’ve had over a year to do so, and there has been no buzz about his return. And every article you can find about this guy (check his B-R page for links) essentially says “We need pitching. Bauer? Ummm… we don’t need it that bad.”

[notin]

Serious playoff contention. 87-88 wins.

 

I’m as optimistic as anyone. Do I think that is reachable? Yes. Likely? Not so much.

 

But again - off-season isn’t done yet..,

[Old Red]

Exactly. I'm not for trading away any one year players, if we added Monty & Duvall.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what was so bad about being optimistic last January, but being pessimistic, this January is wrong.

 

Nothing wrong with thinking, but your predictions are always wrong.

[moonslav59]

It's because this front office has f***ed up our heads. If they're confused as hell (they are), why shouldn't we be confused as hell?

 

I'm not confused about my own feelings.

 

In a way, I feel less confused, now that the "cat is out of the bag."

 

They have said they want to spend less than 2023. That's all I need to know to feel very confident with my pessimism.

[moonslav59]

I’m as optimistic as anyone. Do I think that is reachable? Yes. Likely? Not so much.

 

But again - off-season isn’t done yet..,

 

Even with just a couple minor additions, we still have a chance in 2024. Yes, it's not likely, but we could get a confluence of things going well and be a surprise team. I'm just not seeing much to be optimistic about, right now.

 

I'll still watch every pitch of every game.

[Old Red]

It's because this front office has f***ed up our heads. If they're confused as hell (they are), why shouldn't we be confused as hell?

 

Here’s the thing. If somehow the Red Sox have a winning season, and somehow get into the postseason it will be full throttle again next year, because pulling all those levers worked.