Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[mvp 78]

He would have been my #1 pick. Especially in RF at Fenway.

 

Maybe should have tried him in CF this year instead of Duvall.

[moonslav59]

I never said you never did both. My main point for the last two years was making the farm better is good as long as it is not at the expense of the big league club, which I believe it has been the last two years.

 

I'm not sure building the farm was "at the expense," unless you wanted us to trade prospects for the here and now. (It seemed you did not want us to at the deadlines, but maybe I'm wrong.)

[mvp 78]

I never said you never did both. My main point for the last two years was making the farm better is good as long as it is not at the expense of the big league club, which I believe it has been the last two years.

 

I'm not sure they really had prospects to deal in 2022 to make deadline deals. In 2023, they had a few guys they could have parted with that would have not impacted the future of the org immeasurably.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure they really had prospects to deal in 2022 to make deadline deals. In 2023, they had a few guys they could have parted with that would have not impacted the future of the org immeasurably.

 

You never know what some GMs want, but I think you are right.

 

I thought the Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber deal in '21 was an underpay, but he was not a pitcher.

 

I'm not sure Yorke, Rafaela or other second tier prospects was enough to get something meaningful, and I doubt anyone in the Sox managemenbt group wanted us to trade higher prospects, like Mayer, Casas or Bello.

 

[oldtimer]

You never know what some GMs want, but I think you are right.

 

I thought the Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber deal in '21 was an underpay, but he was not a pitcher.

 

I'm not sure Yorke, Rafaela or other second tier prospects was enough to get something meaningful, and I doubt anyone in the Sox management group wanted us to trade higher prospects, like Mayer, Casas or Bello.

 

as

 

We need starting pitching beyond Bello and Crawford. We have Sale although expected him to shine for a year might be too optimistic. To spend in the FA arena for pitching is risky and costly. To have the money available we would have to rely on playing some of our rookie players. Casas, Rafaela and Abreu come to mind.

 

We have some highly paid players in Devers, Story and Yoshida. so it's important to balance them with lower cost players. Clearly, we should keep Devers as a core player. Story is a dependable defensive shortstop and he has a right handed bat if he can get back to hitting. Mayer may not be ready as yet and Rafaela may be better in the outfield. Personally, I think Yoshida can hit but his other skills may not be ML caliber. We have other outfield options and we really need right handed bats. I would be for trading him if someone will take his contract and instead keep Duran.

 

I'm not against keeping Verdugo, but it might require a multi-year deal and we have Anthony in the wings as a potential star. Yorke may well also be a second baseman of the future and he has a good right handed bat. Turner is an old pro and clubhouse presence who we should take a risk on as a DH and occasional utility infielder (ist, 3rd).

 

Losing the Kluber, Paxton, Mondesi and Duvall contract costs could set up a lot of FA money.

 

Desperate times require desperate measures. Bloom was unwilling or unable to take those measures and soon we will find if our new GM will be active and wise.

[moonslav59]

as

 

We need starting pitching beyond Bello and Crawford. We have Sale although expected him to shine for a year might be too optimistic. To spend in the FA arena for pitching is risky and costly. To have the money available we would have to rely on playing some of our rookie players. Casas, Rafaela and Abreu come to mind.

 

We have some highly paid players in Devers, Story and Yoshida. so it's important to balance them with lower cost players. Clearly, we should keep Devers as a core player. Story is a dependable defensive shortstop and he has a right handed bat if he can get back to hitting. Mayer may not be ready as yet and Rafaela may be better in the outfield. Personally, I think Yoshida can hit but his other skills may not be ML caliber. We have other outfield options and we really need right handed bats. I would be for trading him if someone will take his contract and instead keep Duran.

 

I'm not against keeping Verdugo, but it might require a multi-year deal and we have Anthony in the wings as a potential star. Yorke may well also be a second baseman of the future and he has a good right handed bat. Turner is an old pro and clubhouse presence who we should take a risk on as a DH and occasional utility infielder (ist, 3rd).

 

Losing the Kluber, Paxton, Mondesi and Duvall contract costs could set up a lot of FA money.

 

Desperate times require desperate measures. Bloom was unwilling or unable to take those measures and soon we will find if our new GM will be active and wise.

 

We also lose Turner ($10.8M), along with Kluber(10), Paxton (4), Duvall (7)and Mondesi (3).

 

It won't be easy replacing Turner and Duvall's offense, and the rb raises and Devers' raise will eat into this money "saved."

 

It's going to take more money spent than just what we "saved" by losing these guys.

 

I'm not making any prediction on where our winter spending budget might be.

 

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted this trade for two SP'ers with just 1 more year of team control:

 

Burnes & Woodruff

for

Mayer, Drohan & Perales

 

If both agreed to reasonable extension, do you pull the trigger?

 

It also accepted this deal:

Duran, Yorke and Drohan for just Burnes.

Edited September 19, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

BTV accepted this trade for two SP'ers with just 1 more year of team control:

 

Burnes & Woodruff

for

Mayer, Drohan & Perales

 

If both agreed to reasonable extension, do you pull the trigger?

 

It's a mighty big if. We've had this discussion before, but I don't know what the rules are about making trades contingent on extensions. And in this case you're talking about 2 extensions!

[moonslav59]

It's a mighty big if. We've had this discussion before, but I don't know what the rules are about making trades contingent on extensions. And in this case you're talking about 2 extensions!

 

I wasn't really saying the deal had to hinge on an extension or two, but would you like the deal, if we did get one or two to extend?

 

To me, I don't give up Mayer, unless I get 3+ years of an ace or 4+ of a near ace.

[sk7326]

He turned down a chance to go to the Dodgers at the trade deadline, so it’s hard telling what he’ll do. I’ve said before i don’t like opt out clauses, because it just holds the team hostage like JD did to the Red Sox for a couple of years. Will he, or won’t he?

 

I think that is passe thinking - though teams should not give them out willy nilly. If a player outplays his contract and opts out - that means the club got a screaming bargain for 3 years. Even if they extend the player, that surplus value is already in the bank. It still gives the club flexibility.

[sk7326]

I'm not sure they really had prospects to deal in 2022 to make deadline deals. In 2023, they had a few guys they could have parted with that would have not impacted the future of the org immeasurably.

 

Yeah - they do have a solid 2nd layer of prospects. Yorke, Romero, etc are all guys who likely have value to pro scouts on other teams. (maybe not ALL other teams, but enough) And Miguel Bleis has superstar upside, but a wide enough range of outcomes and error bars that I'd move him if you could get a good pitcher with some team control.

[harmony]

BTV accepted this trade for two SP'ers with just 1 more year of team control:

 

Burnes & Woodruff

for

Mayer, Drohan & Perales

 

If both agreed to reasonable extension, do you pull the trigger?

 

It also accepted this deal:

Duran, Yorke and Drohan for just Burnes.

A Milwaukee club on pace to win 90 games and a division title this year is unlikely to punt on 2024 by trading Corbin Burnes and Brandon Woodruff.

 

The Brewers are not a last-place team with dire prospects for next season.

[sk7326]

A Milwaukee club on pace to win 90 games and a division title this year is unlikely to punt on 2024 by trading Corbin Burnes and Brandon Woodruff.

 

The Brewers are not a last-place team with dire prospects for next season.

 

I don't think it is quite that simple. After all the Brewers traded Josh Hader while still in a playoff chase. It's not that they would punt - but if a team brought them a deal with some real value for a guy they weren't extending, they'd look. That said, I can't imagine they'd take a deal that did not offer some major league ready pitching prospects. The Sox obviously can't offer that.

[moonslav59]

A Milwaukee club on pace to win 90 games and a division title this year is unlikely to punt on 2024 by trading Corbin Burnes and Brandon Woodruff.

 

The Brewers are not a last-place team with dire prospects for next season.

 

Book it: Burnes or Woodruff will be traded, this winter- maybe not for prospects, but maybe so. Both could well be traded, as well.

[moonslav59]

I don't think it is quite that simple. After all the Brewers traded Josh Hader while still in a playoff chase. It's not that they would punt - but if a team brought them a deal with some real value for a guy they weren't extending, they'd look. That said, I can't imagine they'd take a deal that did not offer some major league ready pitching prospects. The Sox obviously can't offer that.

 

We could offer Houck and or Whitlock, plus others.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

A Milwaukee club on pace to win 90 games and a division title this year is unlikely to punt on 2024 by trading Corbin Burnes and Brandon Woodruff.

 

The Brewers are not a last-place team with dire prospects for next season.

 

Well, neither are the Red Sox -- they already cut Trey Ball, dumped Jay Broome, traded Lars Anderson, and made Middlebrooks an announcer.

[harmony]

I wasn't really saying the deal had to hinge on an extension or two, but would you like the deal, if we did get one or two to extend?

 

To me, I don't give up Mayer, unless I get 3+ years of an ace or 4+ of a near ace.

Baseball Trade Values accepts a trade of Marcelo Mayer and Ceddanne Rafaela for three cheap years (one guaranteed and two team options) of 27-year-old righthander Freddy Peralta.

 

Does that fit the bill?

[moonslav59]

Baseball Trade Values accepts a trade of Marcelo Mayer and Ceddanne Rafaela for three cheap years (one guaranteed and two team options) of 27-year-old righthander Freddy Peralta.

 

Does that fit the bill?

 

That is what it might take to get a guy like Peralta.

 

3 years left and he's 27. Maybe try to lock him up for 3-4 more. He might take an extension, if you kick up his pay in the next 3 years. He only makes:

24:$5.5M

25:$8M club option ($1.5M buyout)

26:$8M club option (no buyout)

That is a very team friendly contract that allows us to spend heavily on a FA pitcher like Yamamoto and have money left over for other needs or even a 3rd SP.

 

I'd seriously consider a deal like this, despite thinking very highly of Mayer and Rafaela. We need a top pitcher..

[notin]

Baseball Trade Values accepts a trade of Marcelo Mayer and Ceddanne Rafaela for three cheap years (one guaranteed and two team options) of 27-year-old righthander Freddy Peralta.

 

Does that fit the bill?

 

I’d make that trade.

 

Milwaukee might, too. They’d at least consider it. Certainly losing Peralta is tough. But with Adames a year from free agency, they might not mind the insurance policy in Mayer. (Not sure about their SS prospects.). And Rafaela doesn’t need to fit in at any position.

 

It odd two very good prospects to give up, but the Sox do need pitching

[a700hitter]

A big bat is needed to protect Devers

 

2 top of the rotation innings eating Starting pitchers are needed.

 

Also, something that would cost nothing would be some fielding practice and emphasis on base running. The fielding throughout baseball sucks. It wouldn’t take much to get to the middle of the pack from the bottom of the steaming pile of dogs hit. Base running doesn’t require much other than drilling in some knowledge to prevent the season long stupidity that we witnessed.

 

Edit: What do people think about Snell as one of the starting pitcher acquisitions?

My top 2 pitching targets would be Yamamoto and Snell.

[a700hitter]

My updated team would be:

 

C. Wong

1B Casas

2B Reyes

SS Story

3B Devers

OF Duran

OF Rafaela

OF Abreu

OF/DH Yoshida, Duvall

INF/DH Turner

INF Urias

 

P Sale

P Bello

P Crawford

P Yamamoto

P Snell

 

BP Whitlock

BP Martin

BP Houck

BP Wink

BP ?

CL Jansen

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Baseball Trade Values accepts a trade of Marcelo Mayer and Ceddanne Rafaela for three cheap years (one guaranteed and two team options) of 27-year-old righthander Freddy Peralta.

 

Does that fit the bill?

 

I'd rather trade Duran and keep Rafaela. Both are speed burners who showed a lot of pop in the minors. But one has struggled to become even an adequate defender, while the other has been touted by opposing scouts as a future Gold Glover.

 

A team with deplorable D needs to consider every edge if it wants to improve.

[Bellhorn04]

A Milwaukee club on pace to win 90 games and a division title this year is unlikely to punt on 2024 by trading Corbin Burnes and Brandon Woodruff.

 

The Brewers are not a last-place team with dire prospects for next season.

 

Well, neither are the Red Sox -- they already cut Trey Ball, dumped Jay Broome, traded Lars Anderson, and made Middlebrooks an announcer.

 

I'm trying to work a Duffy Dyer joke into this.

[Bellhorn04]

My top 2 pitching targets would be Yamamoto and Snell.

 

They would be the consensus top 2 targets.

 

Next question - how much will it cost to win those auctions?

 

Has to be a cool half billion total (roughly).

 

I'd love it too, but hard to say if Henry is thinking that way.

[notin]

I'd rather trade Duran and keep Rafaela. Both are speed burners who showed a lot of pop in the minors. But one has struggled to become even an adequate defender, while the other has been touted by opposing scouts as a future Gold Glover.

 

A team with deplorable D needs to consider every edge if it wants to improve.

 

If Milwaukee insisted on Rafaela (which there is a 100% chance they would over Duran), do you deal him for the 27yo pitcher or not?

 

Per BTV, Nick Yorke is an acceptable substitute. Of course it Congress down to what Milwaukee wants

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If Milwaukee insisted on Rafaela (which there is a 100% chance they would over Duran), do you deal him for the 27yo pitcher or not?

 

Per BTV, Nick Yorke is an acceptable substitute. Of course it Congress down to what Milwaukee wants

 

Then it's not happening, because Congress can never agree on anything.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm trying to work a Duffy Dyer joke into this.

 

DD didn't really sell off the farm, but just dug out all the weeds. And only a few of those ultimately made it into frisbees or gatefold album covers for actual cleanings.

[Bellhorn04]

DD didn't really sell off the farm, but just dug out all the weeds. And only a few of those ultimately made it into frisbees or gatefold album covers for actual cleanings.

 

DD's record of not trading anyone who turned into anything is just about clean, unless you're a big Manny Margot fan.

[moonslav59]

My updated team would be:

 

C. Wong

1B Casas

2B Reyes

SS Story

3B Devers

OF Duran

OF Rafaela

OF Abreu

OF/DH Yoshida, Duvall

INF/DH Turner

INF Urias

 

P Sale

P Bello

P Crawford

P Yamamoto

P Snell

 

BP Whitlock

BP Martin

BP Houck

BP Wink

BP ?

CL Jansen

 

How can you put Sale as the #1 with a straight face?

 

Even Clint Eastwood would be smirking.

[Bellhorn04]

How can you put Sale as the #1 with a straight face?

 

Even Clint Eastwood would be smirking.

 

I believe his ordering of the rotation was meant to be random.