Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[cp176]

I would like to prevent further evidence that Tristan Casas should never be traded.

 

We all remember how tremendously he struggled at the beginning of the year. At the beginning of the day on June 1st he was hitting .196, with a .310 OBP and a .673 OPS.

 

Since then he's hit

 

.310/.405/.578.

 

If this is more of a reflection of his skill set then over the course of a full season he would 38 HR's and drive in 98 RBIS. I'd expect those runs batted in to increase as he moves up in the lineup, as he should. Casas is still young, he's a rookie, he is still likely getting better, learning the league, and learning how to be a better hitter. The kid is a true student of the game, and of hitting, so I don't even think he's at his ceiling yet. He's going to be a true middle-of-the-order bat. A guy who hits for average, power, and takes walks. That's rare.

 

Casas is the type of player that a team like Atlanta locks up to long-term deals early in their careers. I hope the Sox start doing more of the same.

 

I don't think that Casas is going anywhere. He has been a bright light for us. I actually think that he is going to be able to field that position just fine as well.

[moonslav59]

I don't think that Casas is going anywhere. He has been a bright light for us. I actually think that he is going to be able to field that position just fine as well.

 

I find it puzzling why our last few 1Bmen called up have all sucked on D.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think that Casas is going anywhere. He has been a bright light for us. I actually think that he is going to be able to field that position just fine as well.

 

Yeah, any talk of trading this guy is silly.

[Bellhorn04]

In no way am I trying to equate casas to Dalbec, but there was a time Dalbec was showig the same turn-around Casas showed this year...

 

2023 Casas

.642 up to June 3rd (180 PAs)

1.006 after June 3rd (291 PAs)

 

2021 Dalbec

.595 up to June 8th (173 PAs)

.947 6/8 to 9/10 (226 PAs) and .916 from 6/8 to the end of '21 (280 PAs)

 

Again, I'm not feeling the same with Casas as I did with Dalbec after his great second half of 21, but I feel we need to be cautious with our expectations with Casas. IMO, I see him getting even better and only worry about his D. He has a great plate approach and seems to be able to adjust, well.

 

I think the umps squeezed the rookie, early in the year, too.

 

Compare Casas's K/BB ratio to Dalbec's, even when Bobby was going good.

[moonslav59]

Compare Casas's K/BB ratio to Dalbec's, even when Bobby was going good.

 

Indeed. That is a big sign.

 

The minor league numbers reflect the same gap.

 

OBPs in the minors were pretty close.

[mvp 78]

In no way am I trying to equate casas to Dalbec, but there was a time Dalbec was showig the same turn-around Casas showed this year...

 

2023 Casas

.642 up to June 3rd (180 PAs)

1.006 after June 3rd (291 PAs)

 

.595 up to June 8th (173 PAs)

.947 6/8 to 9/10 (226 PAs) and .916 from 6/8 to the end of '21 (280 PAs)

 

Again, I'm not feeling the same with Casas as I did with Dalbec after his great second half of 21, but I feel we need to be cautious with our expectations with Casas. IMO, I see him getting even better and only worry about his D. He has a great plate approach and seems to be able to adjust, well.

 

I think the umps squeezed the rookie, early in the year, too.

 

Dalbec 2021:

Apr 619

May 672

June 780

July 541

Aug 1205

Sep 928

 

Casas 2023:

Apr 576

May 766

Jun 851

July 1199

Aug 912

Sep 1075

 

Dalbec had two great months and only 3 months above 750 OPS. Casas has been great since 7/1 and five straight months above 750 OPS. Hard to compare the two seasons except that they both had bad Aprils.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, any talk of trading this guy is silly.

 

Nobody is untradeable. If he could bring back an ace, why not think about it?

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody is untradeable. If he could bring back an ace, why not think about it?

 

True enough.

[mvp 78]

True enough.

 

The problem is that if you mention trading someone on here, people automatically assume you are DUMPING the player.

 

With the right GM, you could trade any player on your roster and get the right return for the ballclub. Some people just don't trust Bloom to do the job and assume that any trade would mean Sox would lose value and get depantsed.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem is that if you mention trading someone on here, people automatically assume you are DUMPING the player.

 

With the right GM, you could trade any player on your roster and get the right return for the ballclub. Some people just don't trust Bloom to do the job and assume that any trade would mean Sox would lose value and get depantsed.

 

The standard procedure in trading for a TOTR starter seems to be giving up a package of prospects that haven't played at the major league level yet, or very little.

[moonslav59]

The standard procedure in trading for a TOTR starter seems to be giving up a package of prospects that haven't played at the major league level yet, or very little.

 

But mostly ML ready or very close to being so.

 

Very few guys like Bleis are traded for top pitchers, anymore.

[moonslav59]

The problem is that if you mention trading someone on here, people automatically assume you are DUMPING the player.

 

With the right GM, you could trade any player on your roster and get the right return for the ballclub. Some people just don't trust Bloom to do the job and assume that any trade would mean Sox would lose value and get depantsed.

 

To me, when I hear "dumping," I'm thinking the person wants to trade or DFA the player for whatever the GM can get, no matter how bad the return is, or no return, if DFA'd.

 

Nobody wants to "dump" Verdugo, Duran, Casas, Mayer and many other players or prospects mentioned, recently. Trading any player with value should return close to equal value, so it would not be a dump. Often, these trades involve getting a player for a position of higher need or trading a player with limited team control (and may not be in the long term plans) for a player with longer control. The concept does not seem hard to grasp, yet so many jump all over anyone who suggests a player or prospect they think might need to be part of a package to get a player we may need more.

 

Other factors involve who we have for depth at the position we want to trade. If the drop off is not much, we can basically stay close to even at the position we trade from and gain more at the position of higher need. For example, if you think Duvall (re-signed) + Abreu is not a big drop from Dugo, but we can get a decent pitcher for Dugo, how is it "dumping him?"

 

 

 

 

 

[Hugh2]

True enough.

 

Fair enough, but I still ask the question why? it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul. That is real value you are sucking out of the offense, which has had it's fair share of issues this year as well and now you have to go out and replace that.

 

I'd like to trade from depth when my cup is full, if the fullness of your cup is defined by how good your MLB team is then are these Sox ready for that? no. If we had 3-4 Casas on our team I'd have a different outlook, but how many guys do we have long-term on this team with that type of potential? Devers? that's it and I think Casas has a higher ceiling than him.

 

I get the philosophy that no one is untradable for the right place, but to me, Casas is effectively untradeable because of how much I think he could mean to this organization going forward. We should be looking to add pitching to a line up with him in it. Not rob Peter to pay Paul.

[mvp 78]

Fair enough, but I still ask the question why? it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul. That is real value you are sucking out of the offense, which has had it's fair share of issues this year as well and now you have to go out and replace that.

 

I'd like to trade from depth when my cup is full, if the fullness of your cup is defined by how good your MLB team is then are these Sox ready for that? no. If we had 3-4 Casas on our team I'd have a different outlook, but how many guys do we have long-term on this team with that type of potential? Devers? that's it and I think Casas has a higher ceiling than him.

 

I get the philosophy that no one is untradable for the right place, but to me, Casas is effectively untradeable because of how much I think he could mean to this organization going forward. We should be looking to add pitching to a line up with him in it. Not rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

You can't get ace pitching without giving up something of value. The only other way to do it would be to overpay with prospects. Right now, teams want MLB ready talent in trades, not guys in A ball.

[Dipre]

You can't get ace pitching without giving up something of value. The only other way to do it would be to overpay with prospects. Right now, teams want MLB ready talent in trades, not guys in A ball.

 

There's MLB talent in the OF.

[mvp 78]

There's MLB talent in the OF.

 

Duran isn't bringing back the same type of pitcher. Verdugo only has one year of control.

 

If you trade Duran, you're getting a #3.

[Dipre]

Duran isn't bringing back the same type of pitcher. Verdugo only has one year of control.

 

If you trade Duran, you're getting a #3.

 

That's why you supplement with ranked talent. But you can't create a hole to fix a hole. It's a lateral move.

[mvp 78]

That's why you supplement with ranked talent. But you can't create a hole to fix a hole. It's a lateral move.

 

It's far easier to fill a hole at 1B than it is at the top of your rotation.

[moonslav59]

That's why you supplement with ranked talent. But you can't create a hole to fix a hole. It's a lateral move.

 

It sounds good, in theory, but you need to find a GM who values our second tier prospects enough to think a package is equal to parting with a top pitcher,

 

(BTV Values)'If Mayer (60), Casas (47), Anthony (41) and Bello (39) are untouchable, what combination of these players gets us a solid #1 or #2 or young SP'er with strong ace potential?

 

29 Blies (may be too far away for many GM to value him highly)

27 Houck (but aren't we looking to add to our staff?)

25 Duran

19 Yorke (some might say this is an overvalue number)

10 Verdugo

7 Schreiber

6 Rafaela (some would say he is worth more than this)

6 Wink

 

When you consider the best pitchers with 2+ years of team control might have values of over 50, how do we do it without parting with an untouchable or opening 5 holes to fill one?

[Hugh2]

You can't get ace pitching without giving up something of value. The only other way to do it would be to overpay with prospects. Right now, teams want MLB ready talent in trades, not guys in A ball.

 

If Casas is the only value you have to bring f back an ACE you don’t have the roster test that justifies trading for an Ace

[Hugh2]

Also we traded for Sale without giving up MLB talent. Of course, you’re probably giving a team two of (Mayer/Teel/Bleis/Anthony) plus other prospects for that, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

 

To me, Casas is untouchable. You plugged a hole, you found a true, young, constant controlled hitter who may be a future leader.

 

Casas is the type of guy who is going to rub off on people just like Schwarber did when he was here. He’s a true student of the game and a professional hitter. That has real value in a clubhouse, and will be even more so in a few years when he’s not a rookie. He will make the people around him better.

 

He’s untouchable to me

[moonslav59]

Also we traded for Sale without giving up MLB talent. Of course, you’re probably giving a team two of (Mayer/Teel/Bleis/Anthony) plus other prospects for that, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

 

To me, Casas is untouchable. You plugged a hole, you found a true, young, constant controlled hitter who may be a future leader.

 

Casas is the type of guy who is going to rub off on people just like Schwarber did when he was here. He’s a true student of the game and a professional hitter. That has real value in a clubhouse, and will be even more so in a few years when he’s not a rookie. He will make the people around him better.

 

He’s untouchable to me

 

He looks to be an absolute beast at the plate. It's hard to project what his offensive ceiling can or will be.

 

Years ago, we might be able to trade Bleis, Yorke and a couple mid ranked guys for an ace, but now, teams want ML ready guys.

 

To get a true ace, we'd likely have to deal 2 from: Mayer, Bleis, Anthony or Teel, if you want to keep Casas. Plus, we might need to add Rafaela or Abreu plus Perales or Wikelman.

 

I'm not saying we need to or should pull the trigger, but we'll have to give to get.

 

[moonslav59]

If Casas is the only value you have to bring f back an ACE you don’t have the roster test that justifies trading for an Ace

 

The problem is, many here think Casas, Mayer, Anthony and Teel are untouchables. We have some pieces to get it done, but we'll have to trade real value to get real value.

[Hugh2]

He looks to be an absolute beast at the plate. It's hard to project what his offensive ceiling can or will be.

 

Years ago, we might be able to trade Bleis, Yorke and a couple mid ranked guys for an ace, but now, teams want ML ready guys.

 

To get a true ace, we'd likely have to deal 2 from: Mayer, Bleis, Anthony or Teel, if you want to keep Casas. Plus, we might need to add Rafaela or Abreu plus Perales or Wikelman.

 

I'm not saying we need to or should pull the trigger, but we'll have to give to get.

 

 

Obvi

 

I’m just saying I’m not touching Casas. He’s my untouchable. Don’t touch him. Stop! Back away from the young first baseman, let him play and develop here

[Hugh2]

The problem is, many here think Casas, Mayer, Anthony and Teel are untouchables. We have some pieces to get it done, but we'll have to trade real value to get real value.

 

Good, this team isn’t ready to strike for a pitcher. They’re a mediocre team, I think you need to build yourself into a contender with a strong farm and then you make such deals.

 

Trading young controllable guys away now would be blowing the load too soon.

 

It’s a slap in the face to endearing such suck for the past 4 years all in the name of rebuilding from the ground up, only to tear it all down and trade away a bunch of assets when we are almost but not there yet

[moonslav59]

Obvi

 

I’m just saying I’m not touching Casas. He’s my untouchable. Don’t touch him. Stop! Back away from the young first baseman, let him play and develop here

 

Casas is about as high up on my list as can be.

 

To me, for the right deal, anyone can and should be traded.

[moonslav59]

Good, this team isn’t ready to strike for a pitcher. They’re a mediocre team, I think you need to build yourself into a contender with a strong farm and then you make such deals.

 

Trading young controllable guys away now would be blowing the load too soon.

 

It’s a slap in the face to endearing such suck for the past 4 years all in the name of rebuilding from the ground up, only to tear it all down and trade away a bunch of assets when we are almost but not there yet

 

I'm not sure we are "there," yet, either, and I do think your point brings out the reason we haven't pulled the trigger on a big trade under Bloom.

 

I do think we are closer, but am not sure how close or if we are "close enough."

 

I do think adding 2-3 big FAs (Pitcher, picther, pitcher or big RH'd bat,) then we might just be a "trade away."

[Larry Cook]

I'm not sure we are "there," yet, either, and I do think your point brings out the reason we haven't pulled the trigger on a big trade under Bloom.

 

I do think we are closer, but am not sure how close or if we are "close enough."

 

I do think adding 2-3 big FAs (Pitcher, picther, pitcher or big RH'd bat,) then we might just be a "trade away."

 

I think we are much closer to being a playoff team!

 

We need a quality starter or two and a left handed reliever

 

Our other huge problem is terrible defense

[moonslav59]

I think we are much closer to being a playoff team!

 

We need a quality starter or two and a left handed reliever

 

Our other huge problem is terrible defense

 

Bare minimum, to be highly competitive, we need 3-4 key players.

 

2 very solid SP'er considered near aces.

 

We need a big RH'd bat (CF/RF?)

 

We might need a LH'd RP'er, instead of counting on Bernardino & Joely.

 

We could get 2-3 via free agency, but probably need 1-2 via trade, unless JH really decides to open the wallet.

 

 

[Duran Is The Man]

Bare minimum, to be highly competitive, we need 3-4 key players.

 

2 very solid SP'er considered near aces.

 

We need a big RH'd bat (CF/RF?)

 

We might need a LH'd RP'er, instead of counting on Bernardino & Joely.

 

We could get 2-3 via free agency, but probably need 1-2 via trade, unless JH really decides to open the wallet.

 

 

 

this is obvious to most anybody. however, i suspect Bloom will sign 2-3 broken down pitchers that nobody else wanted, a left-hand hitting OF and a DH.