Trade Deadline 2023

[Dipre]

Appease the fans? How about appeasing the players in the clubhouse, which is most important. Raffy said the team needed pitching meaning now where every game is important, and not waiting for the inured pitchers to come back. God forbid the 2023 team would get some help that had no implications for 2024, or beyond.

 

McCaffrey:*Chad, since you were in Seattle with the team the last few days, what’s the clubhouse been like? Do you sense frustration with a lack of deals, resignation or just indifference? I know*Kenley Jansen*had some remarks about using the “underdog” label Bloom threw out as motivation for the club.

Jennings:*Deadline Day was a mixed bag in the clubhouse, but that’s probably to be expected. Some players naturally felt disappointed that the team didn’t add. Others felt grateful that the roster wasn’t torn apart. The vibe on Wednesday morning was good. In fact, that’s the first thing someone said to me when I talked in: “Good vibes today.”

 

From The Athletic, from a source actually inside the clubhouse and not just making stuff up on the internet.

[mvp 78]

DD is not the guy to build a team up, he's the guy to take them over the top.

 

^^^

 

He's not the guy to keep around if you're dumping Mookie...

[mvp 78]

Let’s see what they do in the offseason. Not expecting much either.

 

Have you been happy with the previous offseasons from this regime?

[mvp 78]

Here is a look at some of the bigger trades made, recently and how BTV valued them vs what might the Sox have had to give up to match the value actually given up.

 

(There is no way of knowing the other team would have accepted the deals I am describing, and I would not have been for many of them, but here are a few ideas.

 

Do any look like deals you might have supported?

 

21.2 for Civale

for

26.2 Houck

24.0 Anthony

22.0 Yorke & Hickey or Brannon

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.7 Rafaela, Paulino & Walter

 

 

20.9 for Verlander & $35M

for

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.7 Rafaela, Paulino & Walter

 

20.1 for Scherzer & $35M

for

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.5 Rafaela, Paulino & Drohan or Perales

4.6 for Flaherty

 

7.2 for Montgomery & Stratton

for

8.7 Romero

8.0 Walter & Perales or Drohan

7.0 Paulino & Hickey

 

 

More of a reason for them to be sellers than holders.

[Old Red]

From The Athletic, from a source actually inside the clubhouse and not just making stuff up on the internet.

 

If there is good vibes in the clubhouse it probably stems from none of the rumored players getting traded than anything else, and a big sigh of relief.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Old Red

[Dipre]

If there is good vibes in the clubhouse it probably stems from none of the rumored players getting traded than anything else, and a big sigh of relief.

 

What do you even mean by this?

[Dipre]

Have you been happy with the previous offseasons from this regime?

 

That's the wrong question. The right one is: Has he ever been happy about anything regarding this team?

[Old Red]

What do you even mean by this?

 

It’s really not hard to understand. I got it the first time I heard it, and I agree.

[cp176]

^^^

 

He's not the guy to keep around if you're dumping Mookie...

 

Ain't that the truth. I wouldn't want to be that guy either.

[cp176]

I've heard the word sustainability mentioned more than once here and of course that is likely what every GM wants. For many many years now I think that our ownership has done a pretty good job of this. I go back to the mid 60's. Right now I'm looking at a minor league system that has more players that look like they may have a future than in past years. Got to feel good about that I think. At some point in time is does have more to do with quality as opposed to quantity though. I do still happen to think that there aren't any "no brainer" guaranteed to be successful players in that pipeline right now. Hope I'm wrong but I don't see them. Some good athletes but we will have to wait and see what the future brings. We all know what one of the purposes of a stocked farm is all about - trades. Our boy in all reality chose to do nothing in that respect. It might have something to do with an overall change in philosophy from ownership. They continue to make money and lots of it. The ballpark continues to have enough attendance to carry itself and provide a profit. Maybe JH just wants to move in a different direction. I don't nor have I ever believed in this wait until next year nonsense . No crystal ball tells me that all of a sudden he is going to say lets get active again via the free agency route. I think what we are seeing is what we should have expected from Bloom to begin with.

[mvp 78]

I've heard the word sustainability mentioned more than once here and of course that is likely what every GM wants. For many many years now I think that our ownership has done a pretty good job of this. I go back to the mid 60's. Right now I'm looking at a minor league system that has more players that look like they may have a future than in past years. Got to feel good about that I think. At some point in time is does have more to do with quality as opposed to quantity though. I do still happen to think that there aren't any "no brainer" guaranteed to be successful players in that pipeline right now. Hope I'm wrong but I don't see them. Some good athletes but we will have to wait and see what the future brings. We all know what one of the purposes of a stocked farm is all about - trades. Our boy in all reality chose to do nothing in that respect. It might have something to do with an overall change in philosophy from ownership. They continue to make money and lots of it. The ballpark continues to have enough attendance to carry itself and provide a profit. Maybe JH just wants to move in a different direction. I don't nor have I ever believed in this wait until next year nonsense . No crystal ball tells me that all of a sudden he is going to say lets get active again via the free agency route. I think what we are seeing is what we should have expected from Bloom to begin with.

 

They had a sustainable model through 2015, but really blew started to blow it up at the end of the DD regime. Bad drafting under Cherington plus lots of prospect trades under DD really thinned out the prospect pipeline for a few years. Sox seem to be fixing it? Pitching is still an issue IMO.

[Dipre]

I've heard the word sustainability mentioned more than once here and of course that is likely what every GM wants. For many many years now I think that our ownership has done a pretty good job of this. I go back to the mid 60's. Right now I'm looking at a minor league system that has more players that look like they may have a future than in past years. Got to feel good about that I think. At some point in time is does have more to do with quality as opposed to quantity though. I do still happen to think that there aren't any "no brainer" guaranteed to be successful players in that pipeline right now. Hope I'm wrong but I don't see them. Some good athletes but we will have to wait and see what the future brings. We all know what one of the purposes of a stocked farm is all about - trades. Our boy in all reality chose to do nothing in that respect. It might have something to do with an overall change in philosophy from ownership. They continue to make money and lots of it. The ballpark continues to have enough attendance to carry itself and provide a profit. Maybe JH just wants to move in a different direction. I don't nor have I ever believed in this wait until next year nonsense . No crystal ball tells me that all of a sudden he is going to say lets get active again via the free agency route. I think what we are seeing is what we should have expected from Bloom to begin with.

 

Do you closely follow this team's MILB system?

[notin]

Do you closely follow this team's MILB system?

 

… or this year’s Major League team?

[cp176]

Do you closely follow this team's MILB system?

 

Obviously not as closely as some but I try to stay in touch.

[cp176]

… or this year’s Major League team?

 

... one of your nasty little clips here genius or what ... I think my thoughts matter just as much as yours regardless of whether or not I could give a s*** about the things that you think are important.

[cp176]

Do you closely follow this team's MILB system?

 

I guess I should have noticed the highlighted area but now I do. I think many of the guys in the minors have potential. You obviously follow them very very closely and know much more about them than i do. If you see guaranteed greatness there, I'm all over it. I can't wait.

[Hugh2]

CP does bring up an excellent point that Ian and Chris had brought up on the latest Soxprospects podcast.

 

At some point, you have to trade from your depth, otherwise you’re going to start losing more players to the rule 5 draft.

 

It’s unusual to have a guy picked, but If the Sox have 2-3 taken this year one has to wonder why they didn’t trade a few of those guys to get something rather than lose them for nothing

[Hugh2]

If you’re a fan of Sox minor league ball I would suggest their soxprospects podcast as a must listen.

 

As a matter of fact, even if you’re a modest fan or curious about it I think you would really enjoy. And, they do talk about the big league club quiet a bit.

 

Here is a link. Although I would suggest downloading it on stitcher, apple podcast, or iTunes.

 

https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/27644706

[mvp 78]

I guess I should have noticed the highlighted area but now I do. I think many of the guys in the minors have potential. You obviously follow them very very closely and know much more about them than i do. If you see guaranteed greatness there, I'm all over it. I can't wait.

 

Nothing is guaranteed for sure.

[mvp 78]

If you’re a fan of Sox minor league ball I would suggest their soxprospects podcast as a must listen.

 

As a matter of fact, even if you’re a modest fan or curious about it I think you would really enjoy. And, they do talk about the big league club quiet a bit.

 

Here is a link. Although I would suggest downloading it on stitcher, apple podcast, or iTunes.

 

https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/27644706

 

I'm a Pocket Casts guy myself.

[cp176]

If you’re a fan of Sox minor league ball I would suggest their soxprospects podcast as a must listen.

 

As a matter of fact, even if you’re a modest fan or curious about it I think you would really enjoy. And, they do talk about the big league club quiet a bit.

 

Here is a link. Although I would suggest downloading it on stitcher, apple podcast, or iTunes.

 

https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/27644706

 

Thank you for this.

[Hugh2]

Thank you for this.

 

You’re very welcome, the reason I suggest downloading the podcast on an app is because the link I sent will just close down if you shut down your browser and you will lose your place.

 

I use the apple podcast app and listen in the car, but I also have a longer commute than most.

[moonslav59]

More of a reason for them to be sellers than holders.

 

I do think the Civale trade options might have made sense, but not the rental deals.

[Bellhorn04]

I do think the Civale trade options might have made sense, but not the rental deals.

 

I agree. The only deal that would have made sense was acquiring a player with control beyond 2023.

[moonslav59]

I agree. The only deal that would have made sense was acquiring a player with control beyond 2023.

 

I liked the idea of a rental, but they all looked like overpays, in hindsight.

 

I figured there must be some higher priced player whose high salary negated his skill value that we could get for someone like Paulino or Brannen, but I didn't see any deals like that made.

 

I'm okay with what we did. Maybe the Sox scouting report on Civale warns of something.

 

I know I am in a distinct minority, when I say I think a 96% healthy Sox team is a good contender in 2023 (only 1 key player on IL.)

 

With 4 out of 26 key players on the IL, which puts at about 85% healthy, I doubt we can compete.

 

Maybe if 2 of the 4 return and help, we can win. If 3 of 4 return and help, I would not bet against us.

 

The 4: Story, Sale, Houck, Whitlock

 

Let's play devil's advocate and say 3 of 4 return and help (just one from Houck and Whitlock.) This could be our set-up:

 

1. Duran CF/LF

2. Yoshiada LF/DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Turner DH/2B/1B

5. Casas 1B

6. Story SS

7. Dugo RF (Refsnyder RF v L?)

8. Duvall CF/LF, Refsnyder LF/RF, Arroyo 2B

9. Wong/McGuire C

 

SP: Bello, Paxton, Sale, Crawford, Pivetta

LR: Houck or Whitlock, Murphy

SR: Jansen, Martin, Winckowski, Schreiber, Bernardino, Bleier or Joely

 

Maybe, I'm a homer, but that team looks like a playoff team.

 

[Bellhorn04]

I liked the idea of a rental, but they all looked like overpays, in hindsight.

 

I figured there must be some higher priced player whose high salary negated his skill value that we could get for someone like Paulino or Brannen, but I didn't see any deals like that made.

 

I'm okay with what we did. Maybe the Sox scouting report on Civale warns of something.

 

I know I am in a distinct minority, when I say I think a 96% healthy Sox team is a good contender in 2023 (only 1 key player on IL.)

 

With 4 out of 26 key players on the IL, which puts at about 85% healthy, I doubt we can compete.

 

Maybe if 2 of the 4 return and help, we can win. If 3 of 4 return and help, I would not bet against us.

 

The 4: Story, Sale, Houck, Whitlock

 

Let's play devil's advocate and say 3 of 4 return and help (just one from Houck and Whitlock.) This could be our set-up:

 

1. Duran CF/LF

2. Yoshiada LF/DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Turner DH/2B/1B

5. Casas 1B

6. Story SS

7. Dugo RF (Refsnyder RF v L?)

8. Duvall CF/LF, Refsnyder LF/RF, Arroyo 2B

9. Wong/McGuire C

 

SP: Bello, Paxton, Sale, Crawford, Pivetta

LR: Houck or Whitlock, Murphy

SR: Jansen, Martin, Winckowski, Schreiber, Bernardino, Bleier or Joely

 

Maybe, I'm a homer, but that team looks like a playoff team.

 

 

Part of the reason I was disappointed in the deadline was that I do think this team can beat good teams. The 2 wins against Atlanta were very impressive. Of course this team is erratic as hell too.

 

I really like the expression "puncher's chance" to describe a team like this.

[moonslav59]

Part of the reason I was disappointed in the deadline was that I do think this team can beat good teams. The 2 wins against Atlanta were very impressive. Of course this team is erratic as hell too.

 

I really like the expression "puncher's chance" to describe a team like this.

 

To me, it looks like it will come down to the health of the 4 guys on IL and not having any key player go on the IL, either. We don't need all 4 to greatly improve our chances, but 3-4 would be great. With 3-4 back and producing, I think we are better than "punchers."

 

With 2 back, "Punchers" might be right.

 

With just 0-1 returning and doing well, we may miss the playoffs, altogether.

 

[Old Red]

I liked the idea of a rental, but they all looked like overpays, in hindsight.

 

I figured there must be some higher priced player whose high salary negated his skill value that we could get for someone like Paulino or Brannen, but I didn't see any deals like that made.

 

I'm okay with what we did. Maybe the Sox scouting report on Civale warns of something.

 

I know I am in a distinct minority, when I say I think a 96% healthy Sox team is a good contender in 2023 (only 1 key player on IL.)

 

With 4 out of 26 key players on the IL, which puts at about 85% healthy, I doubt we can compete.

 

Maybe if 2 of the 4 return and help, we can win. If 3 of 4 return and help, I would not bet against us.

 

The 4: Story, Sale, Houck, Whitlock

 

Let's play devil's advocate and say 3 of 4 return and help (just one from Houck and Whitlock.) This could be our set-up:

 

1. Duran CF/LF

2. Yoshiada LF/DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Turner DH/2B/1B

5. Casas 1B

6. Story SS

7. Dugo RF (Refsnyder RF v L?)

8. Duvall CF/LF, Refsnyder LF/RF, Arroyo 2B

9. Wong/McGuire C

 

SP: Bello, Paxton, Sale, Crawford, Pivetta

LR: Houck or Whitlock, Murphy

SR: Jansen, Martin, Winckowski, Schreiber, Bernardino, Bleier or Joely

 

Maybe, I'm a homer, but that team looks like a playoff team.

 

 

I think the Kut Man, and Pivetta deserve to stay in the rotation, so if you can get 1 healthy starter out of Sale, Whit, or Houck, and the other 2 go to the BP they could have a deep BP. Of course the big if is staying healthy, which the 3 haven’t been able to stay, but with only 2 months left they might have a chance.

[moonslav59]

Part of the reason I was disappointed in the deadline was that I do think this team can beat good teams. The 2 wins against Atlanta were very impressive. Of course this team is erratic as hell too.

 

I really like the expression "puncher's chance" to describe a team like this.

 

Maybe settling on a lower level trade like Flaherty might have made a big enough difference.

[moonslav59]

I think the Kut Man, and Pivetta deserve to stay in the rotation, so if you can get 1 healthy starter out of Sale, Whit, or Houck, and the other 2 go to the BP they could have a deep BP. Of course the big if is staying healthy, which the 3 haven’t been able to stay, but with only 2 months left they might have a chance.

 

Our pen is already pretty good. We might just need one from Houck or Whitlock to comeback and do well- not both.

 

If one can take Crawford's previous pen roll, we might not have to see Jacquez and Llovera as much, if at all.