5/13 Cards @ SOX 4:10PM ET

[Old Red]

Hernandez can’t play at all.

It must have been a shock to his system when he got PH for.

[Old Red]

Sale is probably heated. His best game pitched in awhile and that clown Jansen blows it.

 

Especially after throwing 110 pitches.

[Oscars]

After yesterdays complete ineffectiveness there is no way Jansen should have closed today.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he is shut down for a few days with his balky back and diminished velocity

Edited May 14, 2023 by Oscars

[Maxbialystock]

What is he supposed to do? He has to use what Bloom got him.

 

Baloney. Jansen was not the only option today, especially when Sale had already pitched 8 innings, so just 1 inning was left.

[jgar658]

Cora put Jansen in to give him back his confidence. This is something you do to a young player in a meaningless game that is not on the line.

That was a fatal mistake.

 

Kike makes errors because he overestimates his playing ability. 99% of other infielders do not throw to 1st in this instance.

 

If Jansen had pitched well Cora would have been hailed a great manager.

[BOSOX11]

Until this year, Jansen has spent his entire career in the NL. Those teams already have his number. Bad choice as a closer in an interleague game.

[cukes]

I'm sure you're right about the Cards. But today was a freaking gift. They got 3 runs on 1 hit.

 

But, I have to ask, why are we talking about the Cardinals when the Sox just gave away two games they should have won? Two good starts--actually one good start, and one great start--wasted.

 

Today's loss was especially painful because sending out Jansen was not only stupid, it also indicated that Cora apparently believes he can't trust anyone in his bullpen other than Jansen.

 

They lost a 4 run game on just 4 hits, a disgrace, we're back watching the sump pump, I said it before and keep saying it Cora is bad at managing a pitching staff not only this year

[cukes]

I understand bringing Kenley in for the close out, but wonder if he is having any further back trouble that may affect his back to back appearances. Hoping he closes it easily, because the alternative would raise big questions

 

if he is hurting and not 100% his manager and BP coach should know it but this is strictly a by the book team, good managers know all current weaknesses and work around it, I'm sure somebody could pitch 1 inning

[Bellhorn04]

They lost a 4 run game on just 4 hits, a disgrace, we're back watching the sump pump, I said it before and keep saying it Cora is bad at managing a pitching staff not only this year

 

Nonsense. Cora is fine at managing a pitching staff.

[Bellhorn04]

if he is hurting and not 100% his manager and BP coach should know it but this is strictly a by the book team, good managers know all current weaknesses and work around it, I'm sure somebody could pitch 1 inning

 

Sure, like Winckowski, who gave up 3 runs in his last outing.

 

There's no pitcher who's guaranteed to get the job done.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sure, like Winckowski, who gave up 3 runs in his last outing.

 

There's no pitcher who's guaranteed to get the job done.

 

Houck and Whitlock said on NESN that Ort is good at grilling.

[Old Red]

Houck and Whitlock said on NESN that Ort is good at grilling.

 

Throws some good heat on it.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Old Red

[notin]

Sure, like Winckowski, who gave up 3 runs in his last outing.

 

There's no pitcher who's guaranteed to get the job done.

 

Not the point.

 

The point is going right back to the exact same method that failed the night before by giving up 3 earned runs in 0 IP against the bottom of the lineup and then trying it again against the top.

 

No one is saying DFA Jansen. Just saying one night off when the team needs a win…

[notin]

They lost a 4 run game on just 4 hits, a disgrace, we're back watching the sump pump, I said it before and keep saying it Cora is bad at managing a pitching staff not only this year

 

I will say it odd comically tragic that a 2 game skid can become reality while the previous 35 games are suddenly the outlier…

[Old Red]

Not the point.

 

The point is going right back to the exact same method that failed the night before by giving up 3 earned runs in 0 IP against the bottom of the lineup and then trying it again against the top.

 

No one is saying DFA Jansen. Just saying one night off when the team needs a win…

 

My only question would be if Jansen was completely healthy, or not. He was throwing 97-99 in Atlanta the other night, and hasn’t looked the same since. I had a bigger problem with Cora letting Blier face the top of the order Friday night.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I will say it odd comically tragic that a 2 game skid can become reality while the previous 35 games are suddenly the outlier…

 

The irony is that the bullpen (as all pens inevitably do) finally blew some games when we finally got some really good starts on back-to-back days.

 

But it's no laughing matter that a team willing to pinch hit at the end of the game for its starting shortstop doesn't have an actual good-fielding shortstop to replace him to protect late-inning leads.

 

Hernandez (do you think his fans would like him as much if he didn't have a pet nickname and just went by Enrique) had the worst batting average in the starting line-up, and was pinch-hit for. That makes sense (along with the L-R splits). But he also leads the league in errors... so wouldn't it be at least as logical to carry and insert a real shortstop with a good glove?

[Bellhorn04]

I will say it odd comically tragic that a 2 game skid can become reality while the previous 35 games are suddenly the outlier…

 

You're basically using the same kind of argument by saying that Jansen's one game sample showed he couldn't do the job.

[Bellhorn04]

We all know what people would be saying if Cora didn't use Jansen yesterday and whoever he used instead blew the game. I don't think there would have been many accolades.

[moonslav59]

I will say it odd comically tragic that a 2 game skid can become reality while the previous 35 games are suddenly the outlier…

 

And, this happens over and over during a season.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Bellhorn04]

And, this happens over and over during a season.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

But notin is pissed at Cora for using Jansen again yesterday.

[moonslav59]

But notin is pissed at Cora for using Jansen again yesterday.

 

That's different from what I was talking about.

 

I don't really like getting into singular moves by managers.

 

The game thread was so absurd, I had to refrain from saying what I felt.

 

Apparently, losing 4 out of 5 is the complete end of the world. (I get the heat of the moment comeback, but absurd is absurd.)

 

[Old Red]

That's different from what I was talking about.

 

I don't really like getting into singular moves by managers.

 

The game thread was so absurd, I had to refrain from saying what I felt.

 

Apparently, losing 4 out of 5 is the complete end of the world. (I get the heat of the moment comeback, but absurd is absurd.)

 

 

Well you put the JINX on them for the second night in a row counting a win, which hadn’t happened, and ultimately never did. Hope you don’t do it a third time. Absurd yes!

[moonslav59]

The irony is that the bullpen (as all pens inevitably do) finally blew some games when we finally got some really good starts on back-to-back days.

 

But it's no laughing matter that a team willing to pinch hit at the end of the game for its starting shortstop doesn't have an actual good-fielding shortstop to replace him to protect late-inning leads.

 

Hernandez (do you think his fans would like him as much if he didn't have a pet nickname and just went by Enrique) had the worst batting average in the starting line-up, and was pinch-hit for. That makes sense (along with the L-R splits). But he also leads the league in errors... so wouldn't it be at least as logical to carry and insert a real shortstop with a good glove?

 

If we had one.

[moonslav59]

Well you put the JINX on them for the second night in a row counting a win, which hadn’t happened, and ultimately never did. Hope you don’t do it a third time. Absurd yes!

 

Your baiting is growing old and stale.

[dgalehouse]

Closing ain't easy. Jansen is one of the best closers in the history of closers. You don't get 400 saves unless you are very good for a long time. It's baseball. There are always going to be some bumps in the road. Don't overreact to everything.

[moonslav59]

Closing ain't easy. Jansen is one of the best closers in the history of closers. You don't get 400 saves unless you are very good for a long time. It's baseball. There are always going to be some bumps in the road. Don't overreact to everything.

 

He's been the most consistently good closer since Mo. It's been over a decade.

 

I'm sure he's had other back-to-back meltdowns, before.

 

It's funny that...

 

Some think Cora should have foreseen it.

 

One thought after 11 years in the NL, they had him figured out more than AL hitters and should not have been used.

 

I'll stop, there.

[jad]

The irony is that the bullpen (as all pens inevitably do) finally blew some games when we finally got some really good starts on back-to-back days.

 

But it's no laughing matter that a team willing to pinch hit at the end of the game for its starting shortstop doesn't have an actual good-fielding shortstop to replace him to protect late-inning leads.

 

Hernandez (do you think his fans would like him as much if he didn't have a pet nickname and just went by Enrique) had the worst batting average in the starting line-up, and was pinch-hit for. That makes sense (along with the L-R splits). But he also leads the league in errors... so wouldn't it be at least as logical to carry and insert a real shortstop with a good glove?

 

Kike's glove isn't the problem! It's his throwing that's bad.

[Maxbialystock]

The irony is that the bullpen (as all pens inevitably do) finally blew some games when we finally got some really good starts on back-to-back days.

 

But it's no laughing matter that a team willing to pinch hit at the end of the game for its starting shortstop doesn't have an actual good-fielding shortstop to replace him to protect late-inning leads.

 

Hernandez (do you think his fans would like him as much if he didn't have a pet nickname and just went by Enrique) had the worst batting average in the starting line-up, and was pinch-hit for. That makes sense (along with the L-R splits). But he also leads the league in errors... so wouldn't it be at least as logical to carry and insert a real shortstop with a good glove?

 

Picking on the wrong guy. That was a really tough play to get two, so Kike threw before he was ready. In retrospect, he should not have thrown to 1b, but doing so was understandable because in fact the GIDP would have saved the win for Sale.

 

The fault lies with Cora first and Jansen second. The wrong freaking guy was on the mound for the 9th inning save--and Cora was stupid for bringing him back after Friday night's debacle.

 

And your comment about Kike getting pinch hit for is just silly when we know Cora also pinch hit for Wong, and Reyes--and probably should have pinch hit for Duran.

[illinoisredsox]

Closing ain't easy. Jansen is one of the best closers in the history of closers. You don't get 400 saves unless you are very good for a long time. It's baseball. There are always going to be some bumps in the road. Don't overreact to everything.

 

He's been the most consistently good closer since Mo. It's been over a decade.

 

I'm sure he's had other back-to-back meltdowns, before.

 

It's funny that...

 

Some think Cora should have foreseen it.

 

One thought after 11 years in the NL, they had him figured out more than AL hitters and should not have been used.

 

I'll stop, there.

 

Exactly and well said gentlemen.

 

The GOAT had 80 blown saves over his career, including “blowing” the pennant on back to back nights in the 2004 ALCS. Statistically, he failed about 10% of the time.

 

As good as he is, Jansen ain’t Rivera.

[Maxbialystock]

And, this happens over and over during a season.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

Of course. We're fans, not philosophers. I haven't forgotten the 8 game winning streak or the fact that the Sox are still over .500. But, man oh man am I pissed off about those two losses Friday and Saturday.

 

To be honest, Friday just happened. Good start by Paxton--great news!--then Winck doesn't have it. On that point I agree with you--it was bound to happen. And then Jansen was, if anything, much worse than Winck--3 runs and no outs. But one can argue it was inevitable.

 

Saturday, however, was very different. Saturday was a masterpiece of pitching by Chris Sale--8 innings, 1 run. And Cora send freaking Jansen back out to save what should have been a magnificent 3-1 win. Stupid, stupid, stupid Cora. Jansen was just as bad as the night before.

 

Now Kluber with his slow stuff today--backed up by a bullpen completely in shock and a manager who has know idea what to do with them.