The Red Sox starting rotation -- long term

[mvp 78]

Wasn't the point of the to build a pitching staff that didn't put on a ton of baserunners for free? I mean, they're 9th in BB/9 and 17th in K/9. They succeeded in what they set out to do, but if you exchange K% for a better BB%, your team better be able to catch the baseball.

 

I think some of the issues point back to Cora consistently putting Kiké back out there at SS. At this point, they need to just run with a glove first guy like Reyes and let Kiké be a UTIL guy. Having Kiké AND Valdez up the middle is just BRUTAL.

[Hugh2]

I think some of the issues point back to Cora consistently putting Kiké back out there at SS. At this point, they need to just run with a glove first guy like Reyes and let Kiké be a UTIL guy. Having Kiké AND Valdez up the middle is just BRUTAL.

 

wouldn't mind him taking 2nd base starts when it's a LHP. and then be utility.

[Old Red]

I think some of the issues point back to Cora consistently putting Kiké back out there at SS. At this point, they need to just run with a glove first guy like Reyes and let Kiké be a UTIL guy. Having Kiké AND Valdez up the middle is just BRUTAL.

 

Agree 100%, but Kike is Cora’s favorite son. I said it at the time, and I’ve said it many times since that the Red Sox could have made better use with that $10M.

[Dipre]

Agree 100%, but Kike is Cora’s favorite son. I said it at the time, and I’ve said it many times since that the Red Sox could have made better use with that $10M.

 

I didn't know Cora signed players.

[mvp 78]

Good luck to anyone who can figure out exactly what Bloom's strategy for run prevention was.

 

I think the hope was for a strong second half push:

C McGuire/Wong good defense

1B Casas/Turner ok defense

2B Kiké above average defense career wise

SS Story has been good in the past

3B Devers hopeful of him getting better

LF Yoshida just hide him

CF Rafaela GG

RF Verdugo hoped that he would revert to 2020 version

[Old Red]

wouldn't mind him taking 2nd base starts when it's a LHP. and then be utility.

 

Arroyo must be about ready to come back, so some move is going to have to be made there, and Kike’s bat isn’t good enough to stick anywhere unless he’s a big upgrade somewhere for D.

[notin]

The closest thing this defense has to a silver bullet is Story coming back healthy this year and playing plus defense. Is this possible? absolutely, he's been a plus hitter and a plus defender most of his career. How likely is this? I have no idea.

 

But he makes your defense better, he puts Kike back to the super utility role where he is much better on defense in CF/2nd and you add a RH bat to your lineup. Shoring up the defense also helps the pitching and your lineup is more balanced.

 

Why not

 

C: Wong

1b: Casas

2b: Hamilton

3b: Devers

SS: Rafaela

LF: Yoshida

CF: Duran (eventually Duvall)

RF: Verdugo

DH: Turner

 

BN: McGuire, Hernandez, Tapia, Refsnyder

[Old Red]

I didn't know Cora signed players.

big

 

Must of put a big bug in Bloom’s ear.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Old Red

[Old Red]

Why not

 

C: Wong

1b: Casas

2b: Hamilton

3b: Devers

SS: Rafaela

LF: Yoshida

CF: Duran (eventually Duvall)

RF: Verdugo

DH: Turner

 

BN: McGuire, Hernandez, Tapia, Refsnyder

 

If Hamilton hasn’t come up by now especially with all the injuries he’s not, and Rafaela is not coming up now either.

[mvp 78]

Arroyo must be about ready to come back, so some move is going to have to be made there, and Kike’s bat isn’t good enough to stick anywhere unless he’s a big upgrade somewhere for D.

 

Kiké has a higher wRC+ than Arroyo. I'm not sure either guy is a starter. Platoon Valdez and Arroyo I guess?

 

They most likely DFA Reyes.

[Old Red]

Kiké has a higher wRC+ than Arroyo. I'm not sure either guy is a starter. Platoon Valdez and Arroyo I guess?

 

They most likely DFA Reyes.

 

Arroyo can’t stay healthy either.

[mvp 78]

Why not

 

C: Wong

1b: Casas

2b: Hamilton

3b: Devers

SS: Rafaela

LF: Yoshida

CF: Duran (eventually Duvall)

RF: Verdugo

DH: Turner

 

BN: McGuire, Hernandez, Tapia, Refsnyder

 

Why would you bring up Rafaela to play SS? He's a good SS, but he's much much better at CF. That 684 OPS in AA isn't shouting to me that he needs a callup either...

[mvp 78]

Arroyo can’t stay healthy either.

 

The MIF options are not great!

[moonslav59]

The closest thing this defense has to a silver bullet is Story coming back healthy this year and playing plus defense. Is this possible? absolutely, he's been a plus hitter and a plus defender most of his career. How likely is this? I have no idea.

 

But he makes your defense better, he puts Kike back to the super utility role where he is much better on defense in CF/2nd and you add a RH bat to your lineup. Shoring up the defense also helps the pitching and your lineup is more balanced.

 

Even if Story ends up not being a plus, he'll almost certainly be an improvement over Kike at SS.

 

Kike/Arroyo> Valdez at 2B

 

Kike/Duran> Duvall in CF

 

Duvall> Yoshida in LF

 

Some of these may not happen or won't happen much, but if they happen more often than now, we might see slight improvements at a few positions with a major improvement at SS.

 

No matter how we look at it, we will not be ebating many teams with our D over theirs, but not losing so many can help.

 

We need our rotation to step it up and be consistent. We need our pen to continue being a plus and some of the shifting roles to be worked out. The return of Schreiber should be a big boost.

 

We basically need great healthy, going forward and some of the vets to do what we expected/hoped they would/could do.

 

The bench and depth looks like a plus and will improve even more when Duvall and Story return (Arroyo/Mondesi, maybe)

 

We look pretty crappy, right now, but I am far from giving up on this year's team, but we need to start showing signs of being better than this.

[notin]

Why would you bring up Rafaela to play SS? He's a good SS, but he's much much better at CF. That 684 OPS in AA isn't shouting to me that he needs a callup either...

 

1. As a good shortstop, he is the best option at a defensive weak spot.

 

2. If he’s called up for defense, who cares how he hits? The guy he’s replacing is fielding poorly with a .660 OPS. If he fields well, how far below that .660 is acceptable?

[notin]

If Hamilton hasn’t come up by now especially with all the injuries he’s not, and Rafaela is not coming up now either.

 

That argument didn’t even make sense…

[Hugh2]

1. As a good shortstop, he is the best option at a defensive weak spot.

 

2. If he’s called up for defense, who cares how he hits? The guy he’s replacing is fielding poorly with a .660 OPS. If he fields well, how far below that .660 is acceptable?

 

If this is a viable solution, then it makes all the sense in the world to just.... START REYES at SS. Not sure what Cora is thinking, he just likes Kike.

[Old Red]

That argument didn’t even make sense…

 

Not to you probably not, but enlighten everyone on why Hamilton hasn’t come up yet despite all the injuries, and need at SS.

[Old Red]

If this is a viable solution, then it makes all the sense in the world to just.... START REYES at SS. Not sure what Cora is thinking, he just likes Kike.

 

Bingo on Kike!

[Hugh2]

Agree 100%, but Kike is Cora’s favorite son. I said it at the time, and I’ve said it many times since that the Red Sox could have made better use with that $10M.

 

Could they of? I think this team has proven to not spend money wisely....at least over the last several years. Although, some of those bullpen signings and Yoshida are looking good. But seeing how they're far under the cap....it's not like Kike stopped them from signing anyone else.

[Hugh2]

Bingo on Kike!

 

I'd have Kike play 2nd vs. LHP, and otherwise be the utility guy. He can spell Duran in CF and give him days off. I think he might even hit a little better in that role too. Utility players just play better in the utility role. I think he could be worth his money if the Sox played him right. To be fair....injuries prevented that.

[moonslav59]

The way Duran is hitting, recently, it looks like Kike could/should play everyday vs LH'd SP'ers: 2B or CF. How much time he gets or doesn't get vs RHPs will depend on how well he does, going forward, or how poorly others like Duran and Valdez do vs them. Casas might also come into play, as seeing less time, but I think his leash is longer. (Yoshida to DH, Turner to 1B and Kike, Duvall, Duran and maybe Ref/Tapia playing more could happen, if Casas slumps.)

 

It's nice to think our bench will be solid, but we need our starters playing like starters.

[Old Red]

The way Duran is hitting, recently, it looks like Kike could/should play everyday vs LH'd SP'ers: 2B or CF. How much time he gets or doesn't get vs RHPs will depend on how well he does, going forward, or how poorly others like Duran and Valdez do vs them. Casas might also come into play, as seeing less time, but I think his leash is longer. (Yoshida to DH, Turner to 1B and Kike, Duvall, Duran and maybe Ref/Tapia playing more could happen, if Casas slumps.)

 

It's nice to think our bench will be solid, but we need our starters playing like starters.

 

The way Duran is hitting? How about the way Kike is hitting, or not hitting as the case may be? Kike shouldn’t be playing everyday platoon, or not?

[Hugh2]

The way Duran is hitting, recently, it looks like Kike could/should play everyday vs LH'd SP'ers: 2B or CF. How much time he gets or doesn't get vs RHPs will depend on how well he does, going forward, or how poorly others like Duran and Valdez do vs them. Casas might also come into play, as seeing less time, but I think his leash is longer. (Yoshida to DH, Turner to 1B and Kike, Duvall, Duran and maybe Ref/Tapia playing more could happen, if Casas slumps.)

 

It's nice to think our bench will be solid, but we need our starters playing like starters.

 

Casas has been playing better though, and I'd hope he continues to get better as the season goes on. I think DUval/Kike can spell Duran/Valdez. Wouldn't mind the occasional Casas on the bench Turner to 1B either. But I want Casas getting at bats.

[Hugh2]

The way Duran is hitting? How about the way Kike is hitting, or not hitting as the case may be? Kike shouldn’t be playing everyday platoon, or not?

 

haaaaaave you seen Valdez hit vs. LHP? I'd take Kike over him any day. His defense is much better at 2nd than it is over at SS too.

[Old Red]

haaaaaave you seen Valdez hit vs. LHP? I'd take Kike over him any day. His defense is much better at 2nd than it is over at SS too.

 

My main point is that Kike is not that good a hitter himself. I not debating any other points.

[Hugh2]

.000 BA against LHP, yeah, I'd let Kike play 2nd vs. LHP.

[Hugh2]

My main point is that Kike is that good a hitter himself. I not debating any other points. I’m

 

I get what you're saying, I don't want to see Kike play SS ever again, maybe like 5 times a year in a utility role and with the way Duran has developed I don't want him starting in CF either. I think his offense would tick up in a utility role. Some guys are just made for that role and perform better there.

[moonslav59]

haaaaaave you seen Valdez hit vs. LHP? I'd take Kike over him any day. His defense is much better at 2nd than it is over at SS too.

 

Ummm, Valdez is 0 for 8 ve LHPs.

 

I'm not saying Kike has earned a batting slot, even as a platoon, but he does hit lefties better than some of our lefties do.

 

EValdez has sucked v LHPs in the minors.

 

Duran is .618 v L, this year and .503 career.

[Hugh2]

Ummm, Valdez is 0 for 8 ve LHPs.

 

I'm not saying Kike has earned a batting slot, even as a platoon, but he does hit lefties better than some of our lefties do.

 

EValdez has sucked v LHPs in the minors.

 

Duran is .618 v L, this year and .503 career.

 

Theres no way Valdez should be starting vs. LHP with Kike on the roster. I'll take his .680 OPS vs. the .111 OPS any day.