5/04 Jays @ SOX 6:10PM ET

[Old Red]

The Red Sox would also be in 3rd place in the N.L. West .5 games out of 2nd behind Pitt/Mil who they both beat.

 

They would be 1st or 2nd in every other division in baseball. They are now a top 10 team in baseball.

Once again being in that damm AL East again where they have been since divisions were put into baseball. Like I’ve said before I would rather play in a tough Div, and face the Yankees 50 times a year than play the A’s 50 times a year just to get a better record.

[Bellhorn04]

It’s amazing on here that in the game thread yesterday I said it was a great sweep, and a good home stand, and the only question was is if the offense could keep the pace up to offset the starting pitching. Some took it from there, and said it wasn’t in the moment, and negative. Wow! I’m not as giddy as some on May 5th I guess with more important stuff going on like the C’s at the moment, and Bruins, and the NFL draft before that I’m just not ordering any postseason tickets just yet.

 

Bruins?

[moonslav59]

We’ve handed away as many games as has been handed to us? I don’t believe that is anywhere close to being true, so your eye test must be a lot different from mine. You keep saying we’ve beaten winning teams, and I agree with that, but we disagree how how good those winning teams are. Yes in my opinion ML baseball is weak just like I think all professional leagues are watered down, and high school up through college too.

 

It's not about how good I think the teams we beat are. You've said all along it doesn't matter and you are tired of hearing about it.

 

Now that we are winning, you want to talk about how bad the winning teams we are beating are. You don't see the double standard being used?

 

As to "handing games away," that will always be something subjective, and the half empty glass guys will keep seeing gloom and doom, no matter what.

 

Fact: we are 6-6 in one run games.

 

Game 1: 10-9 loss to BAL. We handed them the early lead on a platter. Our D sucked and sucked many games afterwards. Poor D is often the definition of handing games away, and we are one of the worst. We also WP'd in a run that game. We walked in a run and had so many infield hits allowed that could have been outs, that the earned run stat was put to shame.

 

Game 4: 7-6 loss to PIT: Go back and look at the first inning, where we went down 3-0. It was a joke. One legit hit the whole inning.

 

Game 13: 9-7 loss to TBR: 1st inning: error, walk, HR

 

Game 18: 5-4 loss to LAA: 1st inning: IF hit, HBP, HR, then BB, 1B, SF

 

Game 23: 5-4 loss to MIL: 3rd inning: weak IF hit to SS that should have been an out- later with 2 outs (would have been 3) Tellez hits a 2 run jack. An infield hit led to another run, later.

 

Game 25: 5-4 loss to O's: seeing eye single lets in 5th run.

 

No doubt, we had some luck in some of our wins, and maybe a more than I remember, but we have given up a lot, too.

 

9 of our wins have been by 3 or more runs.

4 by 2 runs

6 by 1 run

 

Loses:

We've only lost 3 games by 3 or more runs

The rest have been closer losses.

 

Do the math.

 

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The Sox are also in Philly for a 3 game series. Which team is more likely to win the series against PHI: C's or Sox?

 

Everyone in Boston should just be driving to PHI and taking over South Street or wherever.

 

"South street's the best street to have a ball with you." The Orlons

[Old Red]

Bruins?

 

Bruins are still getting plenty of talk, and ink. Most of it not good though.

[Old Red]

It's not about how good I think the teams we beat are. You've said all along it doesn't matter and you are tired of hearing about it.

 

Now that we are winning, you want to talk about how bad the winning teams we are beating are. You don't see the double standard being used?

 

As to "handing games away," that will always be something subjective, and the half empty glass guys will keep seeing gloom and doom, no matter what.

 

Fact: we are 6-6 in one run games.

 

Game 1: 10-9 loss to BAL. We handed them the early lead on a platter. Our D sucked and sucked many games afterwards. Poor D is often the definition of handing games away, and we are one of the worst. We also WP'd in a run that game. We walked in a run and had so many infield hits allowed that could have been outs, that the earned run stat was put to shame.

 

Game 4: 7-6 loss to PIT: Go back and look at the first inning, where we went down 3-0. It was a joke. One legit hit the whole inning.

 

Game 13: 9-7 loss to TBR: 1st inning: error, walk, HR

 

Game 18: 5-4 loss to LAA: 1st inning: IF hit, HBP, HR, then BB, 1B, SF

 

Game 23: 5-4 loss to MIL: 3rd inning: weak IF hit to SS that should have been an out- later with 2 outs (would have been 3) Tellez hits a 2 run jack. An infield hit led to another run, later.

 

Game 25: 5-4 loss to O's: seeing eye single lets in 5th run.

 

No doubt, we had some luck in some of our wins, and maybe a more than I remember, but we have given up a lot, too.

 

9 of our wins have been by 3 or more runs.

4 by 2 runs

6 by 1 run

 

Loses:

We've only lost 3 games by 3 or more runs

The rest have been closer losses.

 

Do the math.

 

 

 

Like I said the Red Sox are still on the back burner to me, so I guess the excitement on May 5 just hasn’t hit me like it has some. If the Red Sox are still rolling along after the C’s are done then maybe I’ll jump on the bandwagon, but I’m just not there yet. We will disagree on who has benefited from bad play the most the Sox, or the opponent, and yes we see things we want to see, but all in all there has been some pretty bad baseball that has been played so far.

[mvp 78]

WE'RE NO. 3!!! WE'RE NO. 3!!! WE'RE NO. 3!!! ... (like that?)

 

What was the media saying before the season? No buzz! Last place team! Worse than 2022!

 

They have the 4th best record in the AL. The AL East is very strong this season. It has a shot to get 4 playoff teams in this year.

[mvp 78]

It’s amazing on here that in the game thread yesterday I said it was a great sweep, and a good home stand, and the only question was is if the offense could keep the pace up to offset the starting pitching. Some took it from there, and said it wasn’t in the moment, and negative. Wow! I’m not as giddy as some on May 5th I guess with more important stuff going on like the C’s at the moment, and Bruins, and the NFL draft before that I’m just not ordering any postseason tickets just yet.

 

Maybe if you weren't a curmudgeon all the time, we'd give you a break.

[moonslav59]

Like I said the Red Sox are still on the back burner to me, so I guess the excitement on May 5 just hasn’t hit me like it has some. If the Red Sox are still rolling along after the C’s are done then maybe I’ll jump on the bandwagon, but I’m just not there yet. We will disagree on who has benefited from bad play the most the Sox, or the opponent, and yes we see things we want to see, but all in all there has been some pretty bad baseball that has been played so far.

 

It's probably about the same. I never said the Sox benefited more.

 

If you look at the amount of blowout wins and losses vs close wins and losses, it's hard to imagine we won more due to good luck than lost due to bad luck or handing games away with poor D, blunders or whatever.

[moonslav59]

What was the media saying before the season? No buzz! Last place team! Worse than 2022!

 

They have the 4th best record in the AL. The AL East is very strong this season. It has a shot to get 4 playoff teams in this year.

 

Just mentioning how strong the AL East is forbidden.

[Old Red]

Maybe if you weren't a curmudgeon all the time, we'd give you a break.

 

From saying I didn’t know if the offense could keep up the pace to offset the starting rotation? Not only wow, but W O W!

[moonslav59]

From saying I didn’t know if the offense could keep up the pace to offset the starting rotation? Not only wow, but W O W!

 

You think that is the only gloom and doom thing you've said? (BTW, that wasn't even gloom n doomish. That was just being real.)

[Old Red]

Just mentioning how strong the AL East is forbidden.

 

Everyone knows how strong the AL East is, and has been since the beginning. The Red Sox also have been in the AL East since the beginning, so I just don’t get why go on, and on about it when the team is only going bad.

[mvp 78]

Just mentioning how strong the AL East is forbidden.

 

What is most important:

Winning the division

Getting into the playoffs and trying for the WS

 

Also, I don't remember too many people on here (any?) projecting them to win the division anyway. Shouldn't people be excited that they are playing better than their expectations???

[Old Red]

You think that is the only gloom and doom thing you've said? (BTW, that wasn't even gloom n doomish. That was just being real.)

 

I’ve said lots of things in the past, but this is what set off the latest go around, and like you said that wasn’t gloom, and doomish especially after I had said it was a great sweep, and a good home stand.

[moonslav59]

Everyone knows how strong the AL East is, and has been since the beginning. The Red Sox also have been in the AL East since the beginning, so I just don’t get why go on, and on about it when the team is only going bad.

 

You honestly don't "get why?"

 

Couldn't I ask why you go on and on about how watered down MLB is?

 

It's the exact same thing, just with opposite perspectives.

[mvp 78]

Everyone knows how strong the AL East is, and has been since the beginning. The Red Sox also have been in the AL East since the beginning, so I just don’t get why go on, and on about it when the team is only going bad.

 

This isn't true. People would say the Sox are a "2nd place team" from 98-05, but that's because of the division they were in. That didn't mean they were a second rate team. To some people it meant that though. "Why can't they be a real team like the Yankees and win a pennant?"

[moonslav59]

I’ve said lots of things in the past, but this is what set off the latest go around, and like you said that wasn’t gloom, and doomish especially after I had said it was a great sweep, and a good home stand.

 

You've been a beacon of light through all the gloominess.

[Old Red]

What is most important:

Winning the division

Getting into the playoffs and trying for the WS

 

Also, I don't remember too many people on here (any?) projecting them to win the division anyway. Shouldn't people be excited that they are playing better than their expectations???

I’m just not as excited as some with the C’s still in the postseason. My rule for me is playoffs take precedent over regular season, and I have already said I trust the Red Sox winning more than the C’s at the moment.

[Old Red]

You've been a beacon of light through all the gloominess.

 

Remember I was the one who kept saying I wasn’t panicking after the sweep by the Rays. That’s pretty good for me.

[Old Red]

You honestly don't "get why?"

 

Couldn't I ask why you go on and on about how watered down MLB is?

 

It's the exact same thing, just with opposite perspectives.

I think all of professional sports is not just MLB. I get out to HS, and college, and I say the same thing.

[moonslav59]

I think all of professional sports is not just MLB. I get out to HS, and college, and I say the same thing.

 

But you honestly don't understand why many people think winning (or losing) vs tougher teams shows more than winning (or losing) to worse teams?

 

I get why some don't care, but to say you don't "get it" is hard for me to understand.

 

To me, it's worse for my Bucks to get beat in the first round by an 8 seed than to lose in the conference or NBA finals. I don't think that should be hard to understand.

 

[notin]

I think all of professional sports is not just MLB. I get out to HS, and college, and I say the same thing.

 

The thing is, you’re probably wrong.

 

MLB isn’t watered down. If anything the talent pool is much, much deeper than it was just 20 years ago.

 

The influx of indoor stadiums available to high schoolers plus many high schools adding indoor batting cages has prolonged the amount of practice. Add to it the meteoric rise in the number of travel leagues - which, thanks to said indoor stadiums, are available year round to players growing up, and the talent pool escalates. And even at high school ages, these kids are learning how to optimize exit velocity and launch angle, and even engaging in training to increase pitching velocity. (Source:Lou Merloni during yesterdays game.)

 

Plus the international growth of the sport and some changes to the Japanese posting system has allowed the best players from other countries more ready access to MLB. Some 20 countries or so are now represented in MLB, and I’m not sure of the exact number.

 

All of this to fill a talent pool that only fits 780 players.

 

MLB isn’t watered down.

[moonslav59]

The thing is, you’re probably wrong.

 

MLB isn’t watered down. If anything the talent pool is much, much deeper than it was just 20 years ago.

 

The influx of indoor stadiums available to high schoolers plus many high schools adding indoor batting cages has prolonged the amount of practice. Add to it the meteoric rise in the number of travel leagues - which, thanks to said indoor stadiums, are available year round to players growing up, and the talent pool escalates. And even at high school ages, these kids are learning how to optimize exit velocity and launch angle, and even engaging in training to increase pitching velocity. (Source:Lou Merloni during yesterdays game.)

 

Plus the international growth of the sport and some changes to the Japanese posting system has allowed the best players from other countries more ready access to MLB. Some 20 countries or so are now represented in MLB, and I’m not sure of the exact number.

 

All of this to fill a talent pool that only fits 780 players.

 

MLB isn’t watered down.

 

If the Sox are winning, and it might make the Bloom hiring more palatable, then there has to be a reason it can't be Bloom getting something right.

 

The league must be watered down, but only the teams the Sox play. Other GMs, doing worse, must be playing a non-watered down schedule.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bludgeon the curmudgeon! Send him to the dudgeon!

 

Wait -- he's been bailed by Forrest Grump, recruited by the LA Codgers, on a dinner date with Misanthrope...

 

... I want to root for the Old Red Sox... but just cant... ankerous...

[notin]

If the Sox are winning, and it might make the Bloom hiring more palatable, then there has to be a reason it can't be Bloom getting something right.

 

The league must be watered down, but only the teams the Sox play. Other GMs, doing worse, must be playing a non-watered down schedule.

 

 

It must be all those 4th and 5th place teams with tough schedules. Right now the only team the Sox have played that isn’t in third place out better is Toronto, who moved down to fourth place yesterday after being swept in Fenway for four games…

[moonslav59]

It must be all those 4th and 5th place teams with tough schedules. Right now the only team the Sox have played that isn’t in third place out better is Toronto, who moved down to fourth place yesterday after being swept in Fenway for four games…

 

If you take away what our opps did against us and compiled their records vs all others, their combined record is around 65%.

 

Nobody has played more games vs teams at >.500 than us, and we have a winning record vs them.

 

It is too hard for some to deal with, so they have to convince themselves the winning teams we beat are watered down or "not as good as we think they are," whatever that means.

 

Look, I'm pretty sure PIT is not as good as they have played, but we played them, when they were hot. Somehow, if seems okay to discount the Pirates, but when we talk about trying to count games vs the ALE as more competitive, we get bashed.

 

That being said, I wish we were playing the Yanks, right now.

[Old Red]

But you honestly don't understand why many people think winning (or losing) vs tougher teams shows more than winning (or losing) to worse teams?

 

I get why some don't care, but to say you don't "get it" is hard for me to understand.

 

To me, it's worse for my Bucks to get beat in the first round by an 8 seed than to lose in the conference or NBA finals. I don't think that should be hard to understand.

 

 

I don’t believe anyone said it doesn’t mean more to win, or lose to a winning team than it does winning, or losing to a losing team. I will still state my opinion that most high school, college, and professional sports are watered down from years past. If you have 30 teams in MLB somebody has to win, and somebody has to lose, so you are going to have teams with winning records, and you are going to have teams with losing records. All teams with winning records does not mean they are all good teams, and all teams with losing records does not mean they are bad teams. That’s my main point, and I don’t know about you but my eye test has shown me some pretty bad baseball played this year in the games I’ve watched. As for seeds in sports they are way overrated. Miami beat the Bucks, because they were playing better ball.Miami is a lot better team than a so called #8 seed, and came with in a missed 3 pointer of beating the C’s last year. How did the #1 seed help the Bruins? Head to head, and matchups mean a lot more than a seed in any sport.

[Maxbialystock]

I don’t believe anyone said it doesn’t mean more to win, or lose to a winning team than it does winning, or losing to a losing team. I will still state my opinion that most high school, college, and professional sports are watered down from years past. If you have 30 teams in MLB somebody has to win, and somebody has to lose, so you are going to have teams with winning records, and you are going to have teams with losing records. All teams with winning records does not mean they are all good teams, and all teams with losing records does not mean they are bad teams. That’s my main point, and I don’t know about you but my eye test has shown me some pretty bad baseball played this year in the games I’ve watched. As for seeds in sports they are way overrated. Miami beat the Bucks, because they were playing better ball.Miami is a lot better team than a so called #8 seed, and came with in a missed 3 pointer of beating the C’s last year. How did the #1 seed help the Bruins? Head to head, and matchups mean a lot more than a seed in any sport.

 

Maybe I get your point better than you do. What we have seen--by our own Sox as well as most recently by the Blue Jays--is lousy execution in the field, especially on defense. In the Sox series at the Trop, to me the Rays looked completely professional at bat, pitching, on the basepaths, and on defense. The Sox did not. In fact, far from it.

 

On the other hand, I think you are dead wrong if you believe the hitting and pitching stink because they don't. As moonslav suggests, that's probably where the emphasis is right now in developing young players. It isn't just that velocity is up, but that almost every pitcher seems to be working on and even using new breaking stuff. Even Sale is using a cut fastball he didn't use before--to go with his 4-seamer, changeup, and slider. Too bad he can' throw a splitter or a big curve. And the hitters by and large have found ways of hitting this improved pitching. Getting rid of the shifts helped. My suspicion is that home plate umps favor the batters over the pitchers. The 20 second clock on pitchers has probably helped the hitters.

 

But back to your point, which I think is a good one. Lousy defense is not good baseball, but players get away with it if they can hit or if they are the last guy available for that position.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[mvp 78]

It must be all those 4th and 5th place teams with tough schedules. Right now the only team the Sox have played that isn’t in third place out better is Toronto, who moved down to fourth place yesterday after being swept in Fenway for four games…

 

Jays losses:

Cards 2

Royals 1

Angels 1

Tigers 1

Rays 1

Astros 2

Yankees 1

Mariners 1

Red Sox 4

 

Jays lucked out by already playing the Royals, Tigers and White Sox.