Henry boo'd at Bruin game

[Bellhorn04]

@MacCerullo

The Forbes valuation rankings also paint an infuriating picture for several of MLB's small spending clubs. Among the top finishers in 2022 operating income:

 

Orioles: $64.7m

Athletics: $62.2m

Pirates: $51.5m

 

All three had total payrolls of under $60 million last season.

 

John Henry is a proponent of these teams not spending their money and the owners pocketing it.

 

Did he really say that?

[mvp 78]

Did he really say that?

 

In his emails he derided Steve Cohen as being bad for the game. Never once has he complained about the smaller market teams pocketing all this money. That is a bigger concern for the game IMO!

 

But yes, he of course said those exact words. He says them every morning when he looks into the mirror and forgets that he can no longer see his reflection.

[sk7326]

@MacCerullo

The Forbes valuation rankings also paint an infuriating picture for several of MLB's small spending clubs. Among the top finishers in 2022 operating income:

 

Orioles: $64.7m

Athletics: $62.2m

Pirates: $51.5m

 

All three had total payrolls of under $60 million last season.

 

John Henry is a proponent of these teams not spending their money and the owners pocketing it.

 

It's terrible. Seriously, a salary cap would be fine if it required the smaller teams to actually spend.

[Bellhorn04]

It's terrible. Seriously, a salary cap would be fine if it required the smaller teams to actually spend.

 

It seems like the players are happy as long as free agents are still landing mega-deals from the big spenders. You rarely hear players complain about small-spending teams like the ones mentioned.

[Bellhorn04]

What strikes me as funny is that so many fans want their owners to spend like madmen, but they will also moan and groan endlessly about the mega-deals that turn to financial albatrosses.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What strikes me as funny is that so many fans want their owners to spend like madmen, but they will also moan and groan endlessly about the mega-deals that turn to financial albatrosses.

 

Just make Pedroia a coach and take his salary off the player payroll!

 

... it finally happened: he coaches his kids in Little League.

[notin]

What strikes me as funny is that so many fans want their owners to spend like madmen, but they will also moan and groan endlessly about the mega-deals that turn to financial albatrosses.

 

They’re supposed to spend it RIGHT!!

 

Also if you prefer not to risk the albatross contracts, they accuse you of trying to save John Henry’s money…

[notin]

Just make Pedroia a coach and take his salary off the player payroll!

 

... it finally happened: he coaches his kids in Little League.

 

Worth noting, his Little League team is over the Luxury Tax threshold…

[sk7326]

They’re supposed to spend it RIGHT!!

 

Also if you prefer not to risk the albatross contracts, they accuse you of trying to save John Henry’s money…

 

The thing with albatross contracts in baseball compared to say the NFL - is that the definition of albatross is very much up to the individual owner.

[Bellhorn04]

The thing with albatross contracts in baseball compared to say the NFL - is that the definition of albatross is very much up to the individual owner.

 

We use the term albatross pretty loosely here, of course. "Paying a guy a lot of money to do nothing" would be the standard definition, I think.

 

For the Red Sox recent examples of albatross contracts would be:

 

Sale (extension)

Price

The Sandoval/H Ramirez/Castillo triple combo pack

 

I think those would qualify for any owner.

 

I assume what you're getting at is that some franchises can handle an albatross or two and still be successful.

[moonslav59]

We use the term albatross pretty loosely here, of course. "Paying a guy a lot of money to do nothing" would be the standard definition, I think.

 

For the Red Sox recent examples of albatross contracts would be:

 

Sale (extension)

Price

The Sandoval/H Ramirez/Castillo triple combo pack

 

I think those would qualify for any owner.

 

I assume what you're getting at is that some franchises can handle an albatross or two and still be successful.

 

Carl Crawford would have been near the top of any historic Sox albatross list had we not dumped him on the Dodgers.

 

We also lessened the Price hit by doing the same, and his opt out of 2020 helped, too.

 

In terms of what we ended up paying, and one could argue we "paid" AGon to rid ourselves of CC, out top albatross list might be...

 

1. Sale extension (still pending)

2. Pablito

3. Castillo (lucky no luxury tax hits)

4. HRam

5. Pedroia (2014 extension)

6. Crawford

7. Renteria (ended up spending about $30M for one season)

 

[mvp 78]

We use the term albatross pretty loosely here, of course. "Paying a guy a lot of money to do nothing" would be the standard definition, I think.

 

For the Red Sox recent examples of albatross contracts would be:

 

Sale (extension)

Price

The Sandoval/H Ramirez/Castillo triple combo pack

 

I think those would qualify for any owner.

 

I assume what you're getting at is that some franchises can handle an albatross or two and still be successful.

 

If you have one albatross, it's fine. Two is ok IF YOU CAN SUPPLEMENT FROM YOUR FARM.

[mvp 78]

Carl Crawford would have been near the top of any historic Sox albatross list had we not dumped him on the Dodgers.

 

We also lessened the Price hit by doing the same, and his opt out of 2020 helped, too.

 

In terms of what we ended up paying, and one could argue we "paid" AGon to rid ourselves of CC, out top albatross list might be...

 

1. Sale extension (still pending)

2. Pablito

3. Castillo (lucky no luxury tax hits)

4. HRam

5. Pedroia (2014 extension)

6. Crawford

7. Renteria (ended up spending about $30M for one season)

 

 

[moonslav59]

 

Would you move him up on the list?

 

(I would not put him above Castillo.)

[mvp 78]

Would you move him up on the list?

 

(I would not put him above Castillo.)

 

#1 worst contract of all time. Should have been traded.

[moonslav59]

#1 worst contract of all time. Should have been traded.

 

Castillo?

 

Pablito cost more and gave us nothing.

 

Sale is $145M and so far has given next to nothing.

[mvp 78]

Castillo?

 

Pablito cost more and gave us nothing.

 

Sale is $145M and so far has given next to nothing.

 

Pedroia.

 

Rusney's contract is on the bottom of that list as it didn't affect the luxury tax. He may have provided value to the Sox, but wasn't given a chance. Hard to hold it against him.

[moonslav59]

Pedroia.

 

Rusney's contract is on the bottom of that list as it didn't affect the luxury tax. He may have provided value to the Sox, but wasn't given a chance. Hard to hold it against him.

 

He gave us almost nothing and cost about $72M. It's not about reasons. It's about sunken costs.

 

Pedey gave us a few years of value and cost us $110M. Hard to "hold it against him" for Machado being a dick.

 

3.9 bWAR 2014

2.6 bWAR 2015

5.4 bWAR 2016

2.6 bWAR 2017

Then went negative (-0.6 over 2018 to 2019) before not playing at all over the final 2 years of the contract.

14.5 over first 4 yrs (10.9 fWAR)

-0.6 last 4 years. (-0.6 fWAR)

 

The lux tax issue is a factor, and the Sox did pay the tax in 2015 ($1.8M), 2016 ($4.5M), 2018 ($9.4M) and 2019 ($9.4M). How much of that can and should be attributed to Pedey is debatable, but even if you count most of it, I'm not sure he passes Castillo's total cost vs value given to the team.

 

Pablito cost us $95M and gave us a negative WAR. He has to be ahead of both Pedey and Castillo.

 

Sale is still pending. He has cost us about $77M, so far and has given us +1 fWAR, so far.

 

[mvp 78]

He gave us almost nothing and cost about $72M. It's not about reasons. It's about sunken costs.

 

Rusney was never given the chance. At the very least, you need to mark him as an incomplete.

 

Pedroia fWAR prior to signing the extension:

7.9

4.3

4.4

 

Pedroia fWAR after signing the extension:

3.8

2.3

3.6

 

Bad deal even prior to the Machado injury. He missed almost 100 games between 14 and 15.

 

Lowest wRC+ season prior to the extension: 112

 

2014-2019 wRC+ after the extension: 108

[Bellhorn04]

Castillo?

 

Pablito cost more and gave us nothing.

 

Sale is $145M and so far has given next to nothing.

 

Accountants say Sale is $113M.

[moonslav59]

Rusney was never given the chance. At the very least, you need to mark him as an incomplete.

 

Pedroia fWAR prior to signing the extension:

7.9

4.3

4.4

 

Pedroia fWAR after signing the extension:

3.8

2.3

3.6

 

Bad deal even prior to the Machado injury. He missed almost 100 games between 14 and 15.

 

Lowest wRC+ season prior to the extension: 112

 

2014-2019 wRC+ after the extension: 108

 

I'm not saying Pedey's contract was good.

 

He's on my albatross list, which pretty much argues it was a bad deal, right?

 

$110M and 11 fWAR Pedey

 

$72M and 1 fWAR Castillo

 

[moonslav59]

Accountants say Sale is $113M.

 

So, about $65M and 1 fWAR, so far.

 

That places him 3rd or 4th behind Pablito, Castillo and Pedey and maybe HRam for net negative value.

 

Maybe...

 

1. Pablito ($95M and -1.4 fWAR)

2. Castillo ($72M and 0.9 fWAR- no lux tax affects)

3. Pedey ($110M and 10.9 fWAR)

4. HRam ($88M and 1.2 fWAR)

5. So far Sale ($~65M/3 and 1 fWAR.)

[Bellhorn04]

So, about $65M and 1 fWAR, so far.

 

That places him 3rd or 4th behind Pablito, Castillo and Pedey and maybe HRam for net negative value.

 

Maybe...

 

1. Pablito ($95M and -1.4 fWAR)

2. Castillo ($72M and 0.9 fWAR- no lux tax affects)

3. Pedey ($110M and 10.9 fWAR)

4. HRam ($88M and 1.2 fWAR)

5. So far Sale ($~65M/3 and 1 fWAR.)

 

I think Pablito takes the award. $95 mill for a minus WAR is a special achievement.

[mvp 78]

Accountants say Sale is $113M.

 

$50M deferred at $10M per year from 2035-2039

[mvp 78]

I'm not saying Pedey's contract was good.

 

He's on my albatross list, which pretty much argues it was a bad deal, right?

 

$110M and 11 fWAR Pedey

 

$72M and 1 fWAR Castillo

 

 

Rusney wasn't given a real chance to get to more than 1 fWAR.

[Bellhorn04]

Price's total cost to the Red Sox:

 

2016 31

2017 31

2018 31

2019 31

2020 0

2021 16

2022 16

Total 156

[Bellhorn04]

Rusney wasn't given a real chance to get to more than 1 fWAR.

 

But if he was really showing a lot for the Pawsox they would have promoted him. They just didn't think it was worth the tax cost.

[mvp 78]

I think Pablito takes the award. $95 mill for a minus WAR is a special achievement.

 

Pablo's contract made the least amount of sense at the time of signing as well.

 

If I exclude Pedroia:

 

1 Pablo

2 Sale

3 Crawford

4 Hanley

5 Price

6 Rusney

[notin]

But if he was really showing a lot for the Pawsox they would have promoted him. They just didn't think it was worth the tax cost.

 

Not necessarily true. But Dombrowski was simply not a fan dating back to his showcase.

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-2019-ken-phelps-all-star-team-position-players-part-1/

[mvp 78]

But if he was really showing a lot for the Pawsox they would have promoted him. They just didn't think it was worth the tax cost.

 

He played well in 17 and 18.