2023 Prospects

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox are not trading for Song.

 

But they'll swap some pelts for a dance.

[Dipre]

But they'll swap some pelts for a dance.

 

Song was a rule 5 draft pick from the Red Sox. If the Phillies don't call him up and keep him there for the required time, they have to offer him back to the Red Sox. The Red Sox don't have to trade for Song.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Song was a rule 5 draft pick from the Red Sox. If the Phillies don't call him up and keep him there for the required time, they have to offer him back to the Red Sox. The Red Sox don't have to trade for Song.

 

What notin is saying is that if Philly really wants to keep him when the clock runs out, they'll have to deal someone else to Boston. So Bloom would ultimately get the Rule V fee and another body.

[mvp 78]

Song was transferred from active Naval duty to selective reserves in late February, which allowed him to report to the Phillies’ spring training camp in Clearwater, Fla. Before even getting a chance to appear in a Grapefruit League game, though, the righty was shut down from throwing due to tightness in his back. As a result, he opened the 2023 season on Philadelphia’s injured list.

 

Since then, Song has been transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day injured list. He has, however, resumed throwing. He faced live hitters in Clearwater on Thursday and could be progressing toward a rehab assignment in the near future, Dombrowski told MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki.

 

“He’s continued to work back, he’s feeling better, it’s been positive,” said Dombrowski, who expects Song to pitch competitively this season.

 

Song, who turns 26 on Sunday, can be sent out on a minor-league rehab assignment for a maximum of 30 days. He would then need to spend at least 90 days on Philadelphia’s active roster to meet Major League Baseball’s Rule 5 requirements. If those requirements could not be met, the Phillies would have to place Song on waivers and subsequently offer him back to the Red Sox for $50,000 if he clears waivers.

 

Phillies will just keep phantom IL'ing him this year and just hide him on the active roster next season for 90 days then demote him.

[moonslav59]

Song was a rule 5 draft pick from the Red Sox. If the Phillies don't call him up and keep him there for the required time, they have to offer him back to the Red Sox. The Red Sox don't have to trade for Song.

 

He'd have to clear waivers, first...

 

Not every club will make a selection, but those that do pick a player must pay $100,000 to the club from which said player was selected. Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 26-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 26-man roster in the subsequent season. Should the player clear waivers, he must be offered back to his previous team for $50,000 and can be outrighted to the Minors only if his original club does not wish to reacquire him.

[Dipre]

He'd have to clear waivers, first...

 

Not every club will make a selection, but those that do pick a player must pay $100,000 to the club from which said player was selected. Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 26-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 26-man roster in the subsequent season. Should the player clear waivers, he must be offered back to his previous team for $50,000 and can be outrighted to the Minors only if his original club does not wish to reacquire him.

 

Also true.

[moonslav59]

Also true.

 

My guess is, some crappy team would snag him, depending how he looks in rehab, and whatever time he shows pitching for the Phillies.

[Hugh2]

My guess is, some crappy team would snag him, depending how he looks in rehab, and whatever time he shows pitching for the Phillies.

 

I don't think anyone would snag him. I think what Bloom did was unprecedented and it will be a reminder to the rest of MLB GM's why you don't pull crap like this. I'm still not 100% convinced some kind of grievance isn't filed by the Sox, and the odds of Song having a productive MLB career one day are probably a LOT lower now given how tumultuous his near future looks after over 3 years of missed developmental time to begin with.

[mvp 78]

I don't think anyone would snag him. I think what Bloom did was unprecedented and it will be a reminder to the rest of MLB GM's why you don't pull crap like this. I'm still not 100% convinced some kind of grievance isn't filed by the Sox, and the odds of Song having a productive MLB career one day are probably a LOT lower now given how tumultuous his near future looks after over 3 years of missed developmental time to begin with.

 

I haven't seen any reports on what his stuff looked like when facing live hitters over the weekend. Must not have been very good.

[Hugh2]

I haven't seen any reports on what his stuff looked like when facing live hitters over the weekend. Must not have been very good.

 

Unsurprising. I want to say something like "I hope DD pays the price and sets the precedent to not do stuff like this" however, this is a rather unique situation and who knows next time we ever see anything like it again....if ever. It would have been really nice to see how Song could have progressed this year with a normal development.

[Bellhorn04]

Song was transferred from active Naval duty to selective reserves in late February, which allowed him to report to the Phillies’ spring training camp in Clearwater, Fla. Before even getting a chance to appear in a Grapefruit League game, though, the righty was shut down from throwing due to tightness in his back. As a result, he opened the 2023 season on Philadelphia’s injured list.

 

Since then, Song has been transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day injured list. He has, however, resumed throwing. He faced live hitters in Clearwater on Thursday and could be progressing toward a rehab assignment in the near future, Dombrowski told MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki.

 

“He’s continued to work back, he’s feeling better, it’s been positive,” said Dombrowski, who expects Song to pitch competitively this season.

 

Song, who turns 26 on Sunday, can be sent out on a minor-league rehab assignment for a maximum of 30 days. He would then need to spend at least 90 days on Philadelphia’s active roster to meet Major League Baseball’s Rule 5 requirements. If those requirements could not be met, the Phillies would have to place Song on waivers and subsequently offer him back to the Red Sox for $50,000 if he clears waivers.

 

Phillies will just keep phantom IL'ing him this year and just hide him on the active roster next season for 90 days then demote him.

 

I thought they couldn't phantom IL him for all of 2023?

[mvp 78]

I thought they couldn't phantom IL him for all of 2023?

 

They can, but they would have to keep him on the active roster for 90 days in 2024 to complete the "90 day minimum" that is required.

[moonslav59]

Unsurprising. I want to say something like "I hope DD pays the price and sets the precedent to not do stuff like this" however, this is a rather unique situation and who knows next time we ever see anything like it again....if ever. It would have been really nice to see how Song could have progressed this year with a normal development.

 

What “price” can he pay? It’s an extremely low cost risk-reward set up, this rule 5 thingy.

[Hugh2]

What “price” can he pay? It’s an extremely low cost risk-reward set up, this rule 5 thingy.

 

I don't know, what type of penalties have executives paid in the past when they were found guilty during a grievance filed. maybe a fine, or draft pick? IDK, I really have no idea. But you can't just pick a guy and stash him on the IL all year if he's healthy.....

[moonslav59]

I don't know, what type of penalties have executives paid in the past when they were found guilty during a grievance filed. maybe a fine, or draft pick? IDK, I really have no idea. But you can't just pick a guy and stash him on the IL all year if he's healthy.....

 

Even if proven guilty of milking the IL system, which will be hard to prove and may not even be investigated, I doubt the penalty will be anything more than monetary.

[Bellhorn04]

They can, but they would have to keep him on the active roster for 90 days in 2024 to complete the "90 day minimum" that is required.

 

That don't seem right.

[Bellhorn04]

So in effect, the Phillies have not just one year, but two years, to dick around with Song's career.

[Old Red]

So in effect, the Phillies have not just one year, but two years, to dick around with Song's career.

 

It is complicated, and when I read it again it said a team could keep someone on the 60 day, and if it did the same rule 5 rules would apply for the following year when he would have to be kept on the active roster. Confusing?

[Bellhorn04]

It is complicated, and when I read it again it said a team could keep someone on the 60 day, and if it did the same rule 5 rules would apply for the following year when he would have to be kept on the active roster. Confusing?

 

Incredibly confusing.

[notin]

So in effect, the Phillies have not just one year, but two years, to dick around with Song's career.

 

If they don’t let him start pitching at some point, it’s all academic.

 

Song is 26 years old and hasn’t thrown a pitch since 2019. And has never thrown one above Rookie Ball. When is Dombrowski going to let him throw? Is this back injury even real?

[mvp 78]

I don't know, what type of penalties have executives paid in the past when they were found guilty during a grievance filed. maybe a fine, or draft pick? IDK, I really have no idea. But you can't just pick a guy and stash him on the IL all year if he's healthy.....

 

Sox would have to file a grievance with the league office.

[mvp 78]

So in effect, the Phillies have not just one year, but two years, to dick around with Song's career.

 

He's getting paid MLB money though!

[mvp 78]

It is complicated, and when I read it again it said a team could keep someone on the 60 day, and if it did the same rule 5 rules would apply for the following year when he would have to be kept on the active roster. Confusing?

 

Yes, it's confusing and kinda s***** especially in this situation. If he's active for the last 5 games of this year, he'd have to be active for 85 games next season.

[mvp 78]

If they don’t let him start pitching at some point, it’s all academic.

 

Song is 26 years old and hasn’t thrown a pitch since 2019. And has never thrown one above Rookie Ball. When is Dombrowski going to let him throw? Is this back injury even real?

 

After throwing at the complex, they'll probably rehab him in low A and see how he does. My guess is that DD still tries to hold onto him for the whole year out of spite unless Song is just a shell of what he once was.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

Some of the moves in the Mayer wake include Christian Koss to Worcester, Theo Denlinger to Worcester, Christopher Troye (37 K, 18.1 IP) to Portland.

 

Denlinger to WOO sounds about right! Koss probably should have been in AAA anyway.

[notin]

After throwing at the complex, they'll probably rehab him in low A and see how he does. My guess is that DD still tries to hold onto him for the whole year out of spite unless Song is just a shell of what he once was.

 

The length of a rehab start is mandated by MLB. Once it’s over, Song has to either head to Philly, return to the IL, or return to Boston’s farm system. (Song does get some minor league rehab time for being removed from the Military List, but MLB might run that time concurrently with his rehab…)

 

Only one of those options might work for Song…

[Hugh2]

After throwing at the complex, they'll probably rehab him in low A and see how he does. My guess is that DD still tries to hold onto him for the whole year out of spite unless Song is just a shell of what he once was.

 

It's a pretty s***** thing to do to "spite" the Sox, because he's probably hurting Song a lot more than he is the organization. But, who knows, maybe he will be their closer in October lol. But seriously, it will be interesting to see how it plays out, then again....it's been mostly hurry up and wait until now.

[moonslav59]

The length of a rehab start is mandated by MLB. Once it’s over, Song has to either head to Philly, return to the IL, or return to Boston’s farm system. (Song does get some minor league rehab time for being removed from the Military List, but MLB might run that time concurrently with his rehab…)

 

Only one of those options might work for Song…

 

You were the one reminding us about the waivers step before any return to BOS.

[mvp 78]

It's a pretty s***** thing to do to "spite" the Sox, because he's probably hurting Song a lot more than he is the organization. But, who knows, maybe he will be their closer in October lol. But seriously, it will be interesting to see how it plays out, then again....it's been mostly hurry up and wait until now.

 

Song is currently on a throwing program and facing live hitters. My guess is that it's not that much different than what the Sox could do. The only difference is that the Phillies are limited in how long they can leave him in the minors this season. I don't think it's hurting him right now. If they try to rush him to MLB and stash him on the bench, that'd be a different story.

[notin]

It's a pretty s***** thing to do to "spite" the Sox, because he's probably hurting Song a lot more than he is the organization. But, who knows, maybe he will be their closer in October lol. But seriously, it will be interesting to see how it plays out, then again....it's been mostly hurry up and wait until now.

 

I assume this was never done out of spite or anything; I assume DD was still just enthralled with Song’s potential and used this opportunity to grab him.

 

But the follow up should be completing a trade to keep Song in the minors…