2023 Free Agents

[Hugh2]

...and, un til we see which Beni shows up in the next 5 years, too.

 

We’ve seen many different Benis recently, he could easily justify that contract, or he could easily not be much more than a .700 ops guy for the remainder of his career

[moonslav59]

We’ve seen many different Benis recently, he could easily justify that contract, or he could easily not be much more than a .700 ops guy for the remainder of his career

 

Someone mentioned the GG, but I'm not sure he'll ever come close to another one.

 

DRS

 

23 2017+2018 (2150 innings)

9 2021+2011 (2150 innings)

[Old Red]

Sounds like the Sox made the right choice.

 

First of all I don’t believe the Red Sox won the Beni trade for Franchy Strangeglove, and Stinkin Winkin. Yoshida hasn’t done anything, or proven anything in the Majors yet, and the next 5 years will show who’s better now. To say the Red Sox made the right choice is based on what?

[moonslav59]

First of all I don’t believe the Red Sox won the Beni trade for Franchy Strangeglove, and Stinkin Winkin. Yoshida hasn’t done anything, or proven anything in the Majors yet, and the next 5 years will show who’s better now. To say the Red Sox made the right choice is based on what?

 

Conjecture- same as with Beni.

 

He does have some stats and skillsets to base it on.

 

Would you be as happy had we signed a .220 hitter from Japan for $85M? Why not?

 

The Beni trade is a separate issue, but you always love to slide a Bloom jab in anywhere you can.

 

The trade results are over on one side. We saw what Beni did under his 3 controlled years.

 

We saw what Cordero has done, and I have no hopes he adds to it. We've seen a taste of Wink and nobody is impressed. Slightly hopeful, maybe. The other 4 prospects have not done much, but they are still far away. Only de la Rosa shows decent promise. The money saved by trading Beni can be seen as helping us sign Renfroe (big boost to the trade grade) or Marwin (big minus to the trade grade), but those are separate deals, too. The $3M savings spent, however.

 

The AGon, CC, Beckett deal was not judged by DLR or Webster, but by the FAs it allowed us to sign for 2013 (Vic, Napoli, Dempster & S Drew). That example is much different from this one, but money saved in trades can and has helped.

[Old Red]

Conjecture- same as with Beni.

 

He does have some stats and skillsets to base it on.

 

Would you be as happy had we signed a .220 hitter from Japan for $85M? Why not?

 

The Beni trade is a separate issue, but you always love to slide a Bloom jab in anywhere you can.

 

The trade results are over on one side. We saw what Beni did under his 3 controlled years.

 

We saw what Cordero has done, and I have no hopes he adds to it. We've seen a taste of Wink and nobody is impressed. Slightly hopeful, maybe. The other 4 prospects have not done much, but they are still far away. Only de la Rosa shows decent promise. The money saved by trading Beni can be seen as helping us sign Renfroe (big boost to the trade grade) or Marwin (big minus to the trade grade), but those are separate deals, too. The $3M savings spent, however.

 

The AGon, CC, Beckett deal was not judged by DLR or Webster, but by the FAs it allowed us to sign for 2013 (Vic, Napoli, Dempster & S Drew). That example is much different from this one, but money saved in trades can and has helped.

The big difference on the conjecture with Beni is he’s proven it in the Major Leagues, and Yoshida hasn’t proven a thing yet, and that’s a fact. Now if you want to say it’s conjecture on Yoshida, and nothing else then I’ll agree.

,

[moonslav59]

The big difference on the conjecture with Beni is he’s proven it in the Major Leagues, and Yoshida hasn’t proven a thing yet, and that’s a fact. Now if you want to say it’s conjecture on Yoshida, and nothing else then I’ll agree.

,

 

Of course, MLB conjecture is usually better than Japanese conjecture, but they both are conjecture.

 

MLB conjecture> Japanese conversion conjecture

 

Yoshida's numbers >>> B eni's numbers

 

Looks pretty close to me, and the AAV is, too.

[Old Red]

Of course, MLB conjecture is usually better than Japanese conjecture, but they both are conjecture.

 

MLB conjecture> Japanese conversion conjecture

 

Yoshida's numbers >>> B eni's numbers

 

Looks pretty close to me, and the AAV is, too.

Beni is still doing it. That’s not conjecture. This signing of Yoshida could be the fatal blow to Bloom if things don’t work out, and the Red Sox stay in the toilet this year, and yes that’s a jab at Bloom.

[Hugh2]

Beni is still doing it. That’s not conjecture. This signing of Yoshida could be the fatal blow to Bloom if things don’t work out, and the Red Sox stay in the toilet this year, and yes that’s a jab at Bloom.

 

This is a fair point, however it’s worth noting for the past 4 years Benis production has dropped off and his speed diminished. He’s still a valuable player but he’s not the guy he was in 2018. He is also what he did in 2019-2022. Can he at least be that guy? Rebound? or is he in decline?

[Bellhorn04]

This is a fair point, however it’s worth noting for the past 4 years Benis production has dropped off and his speed diminished. He’s still a valuable player but he’s not the guy he was in 2018. He is also what he did in 2019-2022. Can he at least be that guy? Rebound? or is he in decline?

 

Beni's 2.8 fWAR/3.2 bWAR in 2022 WAS a rebound, don't you think?

[Hugh2]

Beni's 2.8 fWAR/3.2 bWAR in 2022 WAS a rebound, don't you think?

 

We are splitting hairs with a differential of 1 war or less. I’m not saying Beni stinks or I’ll be surprised if he has a year mirroring his 2018, I just wouldn’t be surprised if he trends downward either.

[moonslav59]

Beni is still doing it. That’s not conjecture. This signing of Yoshida could be the fatal blow to Bloom if things don’t work out, and the Red Sox stay in the toilet this year, and yes that’s a jab at Bloom.

 

Next year is conjecture for every single player.

 

Both Beni and Yoshida could be (Yoshida0 or could have been (Beni) a "fatal blow."

 

It's funny how you act like what Beni did last year assures he's still doing it, but at the start of 2022, you said over and over, "last year is last year" when we spoke of Kike and other returning vets who did well in 2021. Yes, Kike s*** the bed, but what makes you think Beni will not?

 

fWAR prior 4 years

Beni: 2.8, 1.7, -0.4, 1.8 (5.9 total) 1.5 avg per year (106 OPS+)

Kike: 3.9, 0.1, 0.7, 3.3 (8.0 total) 2.0 avg per year (102 OPS+)

 

try to stay consistent in your evaluation criteria.

 

[moonslav59]

Beni's 2.8 fWAR/3.2 bWAR in 2022 WAS a rebound, don't you think?

 

Yes, but also maybe an outlier.

 

It's all conjecture.

 

It's hard to compare apples to oranges, but Yoshida has had way better numbers than Beni over the last 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, career, but the conversion factor is speculative.

 

Again, it's all conjecture, but what's the feelings on who will have a better fWAR or bWAR when the 5 years are up?

 

If Yoshida spends much of the time as DH, he may/should end up with better or much better offensive numbers, but Beni might catch or pass him with just decent defense.

[Old Red]

Next year is conjecture for every single player.

 

Both Beni and Yoshida could be (Yoshida0 or could have been (Beni) a "fatal blow."

 

It's funny how you act like what Beni did last year assures he's still doing it, but at the start of 2022, you said over and over, "last year is last year" when we spoke of Kike and other returning vets who did well in 2021. Yes, Kike s*** the bed, but what makes you think Beni will not?

 

fWAR prior 4 years

Beni: 2.8, 1.7, -0.4, 1.8 (5.9 total) 1.5 avg per year (106 OPS+)

Kike: 3.9, 0.1, 0.7, 3.3 (8.0 total) 2.0 avg per year (102 OPS+)

 

try to stay consistent in your evaluation criteria.

 

It still comes down to Yoshida has done nothing, or proven anything in the Major Leagues, and that’s a fact. Now if, and when he does something that will change, and we’ll be see if that $100M+ was money well spent. I’m hoping it does for the Red Sox sake, but you on the other hand are hoping it does for the Red Sox sake, and for Bloom’s sake.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Old Red

[Hugh2]

It still comes down to Yoshida has done nothing, or proven anything in the Major Leagues, and that’s a fact. Now if, and when he does something that will change, and we’ll be see if that $100M+ was money we’ll spent.

 

Neither did Ichiro, Tanaka, Nomo, Ohtani, Matsui, Darvish, plus others. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t explore those markets. If your people believe in someone and you can get them at a price you’re comfortable with you do it.

[Old Red]

Neither did Ichiro, Tanaka, Nomo, Ohtani, Matsui, Darvish, plus others. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t explore those markets. If your people believe in someone and you can get them at a price you’re comfortable with you do it.

 

That’s what DD did with Sale, and Someone did with the Panda, and someone did with CC, so I guess you are right, and let’s no forget Rusney.

[Hugh2]

That’s what DD did with Sale, and Someone did with the Panda, and someone did with CC, so I guess you are right, and let’s no forget Rusney.

 

So then we should just not trust our evaluators and sign anyone?

 

Also, there’s been turn over in the organization since then, also…even the best scouts miss on guys and the worse get lucky.

 

You’re literally trying to guess the future trajectory of a human being.

[moonslav59]

It still comes down to Yoshida has done nothing, or proven anything in the Major Leagues, and that’s a fact. Now if, and when he does something that will change, and we’ll be see if that $100M+ was money well spent. I’m hoping it does for the Red Sox sake, but you on the other hand are hoping it does for the Red Sox sake, and for Bloom’s sake.

 

See, this is exactly what you say we do and bash us for it.

 

You set the criteria as only MLB past data counts and is "fact." Yes, Beni has MLB data and Yoshida does not. Yes, that's a fact, but it is not a "fact" it is the only thing that counts. It might to you, but not everyone.

 

I asked a question earlier. I'll reword it and would appreciate a response and reason:

 

Would you prefer we signed a .250 OBP guy from Japan for $18M x 5 or a .400 OBP guy from Japan for the same? Why or why not?

 

Using your criteria that only MLB data matters, you should not care which one we sign.

 

Of course it matters, and you know it. To what degree is certainly up for discussion, but having spectacular numbers in Japan counts for something- just as having less than spectacular numbers in MLB counts for something.

 

We all weigh it differently. I could say, "The fact is" Yoshida has an OBP of ,400, so say good night Dick.

[Hugh2]

See, this is exactly what you say we do and bash us for it.

 

You set the criteria as only MLB past data counts and is "fact." Yes, Beni has MLB data and Yoshida does not. Yes, that's a fact, but it is not a "fact" it is the only thing that counts. It might to you, but not everyone.

 

I asked a question earlier. I'll reword it and would appreciate a response and reason:

 

Would you prefer we signed a .250 OBP guy from Japan for $18M x 5 or a .400 OBP guy from Japan for the same? Why or why not?

 

Using your criteria that only MLB data matters, you should not care which one we sign.

 

Of course it matters, and you know it. To what degree is certainly up for discussion, but having spectacular numbers in Japan counts for something- just as having less than spectacular numbers in MLB counts for something.

 

We all weigh it differently. I could say, "The fact is" Yoshida has an OBP of ,400, so say good night Dick.

 

I’m fairly certain professional scouts have a much better ideal how a players skill sets will transfer over to mlb better than we do

[moonslav59]

That’s what DD did with Sale, and Someone did with the Panda, and someone did with CC, so I guess you are right, and let’s no forget Rusney.

 

....but, but, but, Sale, Panda, Hram and CC all proved they could do it in MLB, and that's a fact- JACK!

[Old Red]

....but, but, but, Sale, Panda, Hram and CC all proved they could do it in MLB, and that's a fact- JACK!

Yes that is, but you left out the one I mentioned last, which was good old Rusney, and that’s also a fact, and Rusney didn’t meet you narrative, so until Yoshida proves his worth to me he’s not much better than RUSNEY you know the one you conveniently left out.

[Old Red]

See, this is exactly what you say we do and bash us for it.

 

You set the criteria as only MLB past data counts and is "fact." Yes, Beni has MLB data and Yoshida does not. Yes, that's a fact, but it is not a "fact" it is the only thing that counts. It might to you, but not everyone.

 

I asked a question earlier. I'll reword it and would appreciate a response and reason:

 

Would you prefer we signed a .250 OBP guy from Japan for $18M x 5 or a .400 OBP guy from Japan for the same? Why or why not?

 

Using your criteria that only MLB data matters, you should not care which one we sign.

 

Of course it matters, and you know it. To what degree is certainly up for discussion, but having spectacular numbers in Japan counts for something- just as having less than spectacular numbers in MLB counts for something.

 

We all weigh it differently. I could say, "The fact is" Yoshida has an OBP of ,400, so say good night Dick.

I never said it counted the same for everyone, and I didn’t say it’s the only thing that counts, but that’s how I look at it, and that bothers some. I think they overpaid, and that bothers some too. That’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I never said I thought Bloom should've signed Benintendi instead of Yoshida. But MLB teams thought both were worth at least $15M AAV.

 

Just like the market price for average starting pitchers is now about $13M AAV (Manaea, Anderson, Stripling, etc.).

 

The Red Sox, who lost three big league starters, have just chosen not to sign any this offseason...

 

They did try to get versatile swingman Zac Eflin, who was so versatile, he swung to Florida. However, that experience left them so sour on starting pitchers that they intentionally let three get picked in the Rule 5 Draft, and have refocused on DFAed relievers.

[moonslav59]

Yes that is, but you left out the one I mentioned last, which was good old Rusney, and that’s also a fact, and Rusney didn’t meet you narrative, so until Yoshida proves his worth to me he’s not much better than RUSNEY you know the one you conveniently left out.

 

It was out of convenience, My point was about players with MLB experience who had "PROVED" they were good turned sour and the hopes back then were based on CONJECTURE, too.

 

Rusney had no MLB experience, as many others who failed did not. How is mentioning Rusney speaking to the point that those with MLB experience are just conjecture, too.

 

Again, you miss the obvious and clear point.

[Hugh2]

Yes that is, but you left out the one I mentioned last, which was good old Rusney, and that’s also a fact, and Rusney didn’t meet you narrative, so until Yoshida proves his worth to me he’s not much better than RUSNEY you know the one you conveniently left out.

 

One could also say until Yoshida proves he can’t hit MLB pitching he’s Abreu?

 

I suppose your cup is either half empty, or half full.

[notin]

One could also say until Yoshida proves he can’t hit MLB pitching he’s Abreu?

 

I suppose your cup is either half empty, or half full.

 

Why do we assume half full is a good thing? It’s very situational. I mean, if you’re holding a half a cup of blood, isn’t half-empty the preferable option?

 

No idea how that chain of thought hit me this morning…

[Hugh2]

Why do we assume half full is a good thing? It’s very situational. I mean, if you’re holding a half a cup of blood, isn’t half-empty the preferable option?

 

No idea how that chain of thought hit me this morning…

 

I dont think it matters either way, our perception as fans doesn’t change the outcome.

[moonslav59]

I never said it counted the same for everyone, and I didn’t say it’s the only thing that counts, but that’s how I look at it, and that bothers some. I think they overpaid, and that bothers some too. That’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it.

 

It doesn't bother me you think we overpaid even a tiny bit. It's how you switch around the criteria to fit your opinion and make it sound like your "facts" count more than others, while saying we always do that to you. (We all do it, maybe unintentionally.)

 

Why does what Beni did last year and over the last 4 years count, but last March, you totally dismissed what Kike did his previous year and 4 years?

 

"That was last year," we heard over and over- like it doesn't count or "prove" anything, yet Beni's recent history "proves" he's legit and Yoshida is not, until he "proves it."

[Old Red]

It was out of convenience, My point was about players with MLB experience who had "PROVED" they were good turned sour and the hopes back then were based on CONJECTURE, too.

 

Rusney had no MLB experience, as many others who failed did not. How is mentioning Rusney speaking to the point that those with MLB experience are just conjecture, too.

 

Again, you miss the obvious and clear point.

 

My clear, and obvious point in the first place was Yoshida has done nothing in MLBaseball, and Rusney was just another example of the same who turned out to be a bust, and Beni who has done plenty in MLBaseball most likely will continue to do so. Might not be to his standard in his earlier days with Boston, but we shall see. Like I say repeatedly it’s always someone else missing the point with you, and never you missing the point, or as you try to say. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Hugh2]

My clear, and obvious point in the first place was Yoshida has done nothing in MLBaseball, and Rusney was just another example of the same who turned out to be a bust, and Beni who has done plenty in MLBaseball most likely will continue to do so. Might not be to his standard in his earlier days with Boston, but we shall see. Like I say repeatedly it’s always someone else missing the point with you, and never you missing the point, or as you try to say. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Should the Sox ignore international markets then? Surely the likes of Bogaerts, Devers, Bello, and others in the pipeline have been enough to excite the fans?

[Hugh2]

Thought of the morning.

 

It was argued back here some time ago, but I can’t remember who I had the disagreement with.

 

That Kike Hernandez was a good extension, and he would have got substantially more if he went to free agency than 10/1 year.

 

I think this years FA class has proven my point. Kike looks like a steal now.