2023 Free Agents

[Bobe2]

Yorke was top 100 prior to 2022, right?

 

Yes I believe he was in 2021,

[Bobe2]

You are right for sure. Now Bloom might be doing a decent job bringing people in that can at least play a little. I think that part of my problem has been that I have listened to the people claiming how much he has built up the farm. I agree that he has but until he pulls off some big time trades with all of this very average talent that he has brought in, I'm going to remain very skeptical with respect to the job that he has done, is doing, and will do. Of course he gets high grades for adding players to the program. I wish that they were better players.

 

I believe most of us are hoping for quality players instead of tier 3 body’s

[Bobe2]

The vast majority we don't know how good they are or will be. We do know Whitlock is good.

 

When you figure it takes 3-7 years to start seeing results, seeing Whitlock already looks pretty good to me.

 

Looking at Kelly, German and Wink, with very little ML experience already, I'm thinking 1 or 2 should be good.

 

Those yet to show anything cannot be judged, but on paper, it looks pretty good, and many of his trades added depth that should lead to at least 1 or 2 meaningful players, at some point:

 

(I'm not sure how much better we could have expected.)

 

Bloom's guys only (some not so good, so far, agreed)

2023 (and before): Whitlock, Wink, Seabold, Kelly, German, Wong, Downs, EVladez,

2024: Mayer, Wallace, Abreu, Hamilton, RHern, Binelas, Koss

2025: Hickey, Kavadas, Jordan, Drohan, Ferguson, Rosier

2006> Bleis, Romero, Anthony, Coffey, Rodriguez-Cruz, Brannon

 

Lots of names- a few should do well, and that should beat the last 5 year record of:

 

Houck

Dalbec

Duran

 

Whitlock was rule 5, not a trade

[moonslav59]

Whitlock was rule 5, not a trade

 

Yes, I know, but he was a Bloom pick-up that has already produced. Your post mostly mentioned prospects he brought in and you just touched on trades. Whitlock was already someone else's prospect before we got him. I think he fits your points made.

 

On the trades, most were not trades of great players for a prospect or two or three. Even the Betts trade included a ML player.

 

The Workman/Hembree trade gave us Pivetta (and Seabold). Should we have expected great things from Seabold?

 

Beni brought us Cordero and 4 prospects, including Wink, who still may give us something good. The other 3 look sketchy, right now, but de la Rosa shows promise.

 

The Renfroe trade brought us JBJ and Binelas and Hamilton. Hamilton was just added to the 40, so were were we supposed to see ML results from that trade, already?

 

Ottavino and German.

 

The only straight up ML'er for only a prospect were never really good players traded:

 

Moreland for Rosario and Potts looks like a total miss.

Pillar for Wallace could still be a very good trade for us.

Springs and Mazza for RHern looks like a total flopper.

 

I'm not hearing anyone saying Bloom's trades for prospects have been great, but his overall prospect additions have already shown better results than the 5 years from Devers to Bello/Casas, and it's been just 3 years. When you also add the fact that Bloom has drafted many HS players, what should the expectations have been?

 

My answer? What we've seen minus Whitlock, so I'd say, we've already seen more than I expected and the near and far future looks much brighter and than I thought it could be after just 3years. The farm is deeper, stronger and set up for help this next year and everyone afterwards (in theory.) Nobody was saying that 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years ago or 5 years ago.

 

Did you really expect great things from Bloom's farm, already?

Edited November 28, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

FWIW, SoxProspects doesn't believe Hamilton or Abreu will appear for BOS in 2023. If Hamilton can gain some usefulness in the OF, maybe he can get a cup of coffee even with his dumb flyball rate. Hamilton at least has the speed. Abreu k's too much for his mediocre power. He'll walk a lot, but has too much swing and miss. His SLG went way down after being traded.

 

Yes, that's why one reason I said "may add" help. The other is that even if they are called up, they may not produce in 2023.

[mvp 78]

Did you really expect great things from Bloom's farm, already?

 

On 12/1/19, Bloom had JD, Mookie, Xander, Beni, ERod, JBJ, Vazquez, Moreland, Chavis, Price, Workman, Hembree and Eovaldi. Those guys are all gone now and the only real MLB contributors they have as of today are Verdugo and Nick Pivetta. I think it's fair to expect more than that with such a talent drain.

[notin]

On 12/1/19, Bloom had JD, Mookie, Xander, Beni, ERod, JBJ, Vazquez, Moreland, Chavis, Price, Workman, Hembree and Eovaldi. Those guys are all gone now and the only real MLB contributors they have as of today are Verdugo and Nick Pivetta. I think it's fair to expect more than that with such a talent drain.

 

I’m sorry. What?!?!

[Bobe2]

Yes, I know, but he was a Bloom pick-up that has already produced. Your post mostly mentioned prospects he brought in and you just touched on trades. Whitlock was already someone else's prospect before we got him. I think he fits your points made.

 

On the trades, most were not trades of great players for a prospect or two or three. Even the Betts trade included a ML player.

 

The Workman/Hembree trade gave us Pivetta (and Seabold). Should we have expected great things from Seabold?

 

Beni brought us Cordero and 4 prospects, including Wink, who still may give us something good. The other 3 look sketchy, right now, but de la Rosa shows promise.

 

The Renfroe trade brought us JBJ and Binelas and Hamilton. Hamilton was just added to the 40, so were were we supposed to see ML results from that trade, already?

 

Ottavino and German.

 

The only straight up ML'er for only a prospect were never really good players traded:

 

Moreland for Rosario and Potts looks like a total miss.

Pillar for Wallace could still be a very good trade for us.

Springs and Mazza for RHern looks like a total flopper.

 

I'm not hearing anyone saying Bloom's trades for prospects have been great, but his overall prospect additions have already shown better results than the 5 years from Devers to Bello/Casas, and it's been just 3 years. When you also add the fact that Bloom has drafted many HS players, what should the expectations have been?

 

My answer? What we've seen minus Whitlock, so I'd say, we've already seen more than I expected and the near and far future looks much brighter and than I thought it could be after just 3years. The farm is deeper, stronger and set up for help this next year and everyone afterwards (in theory.) Nobody was saying that 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years ago or 5 years ago.

 

Did you really expect great things from Bloom's farm, already?

Yes I did because we traded all stars a league mvp some gold gloves and silver slugger award winners, I expected some above average prospects to replace them, guys ready to make the jump to the bigs not a bunch of guys that are more than likely to only make cameo appearances, and I was pretty specific that I was discussing trades only

[moonslav59]

On 12/1/19, Bloom had JD, Mookie, Xander, Beni, ERod, JBJ, Vazquez, Moreland, Chavis, Price, Workman, Hembree and Eovaldi. Those guys are all gone now and the only real MLB contributors they have as of today are Verdugo and Nick Pivetta. I think it's fair to expect more than that with such a talent drain.

 

Fair enough, although ERod, JBJ and maybe soon to be JD, X & Nate left via free agency.

 

Moreland was not someone you'd expect a great haul from, but Potts and Rosario are gone or not promising, at all.

 

The Chavis trade looks bad, too.

 

The Betts and Price deal has been discussed, enough. Personally, I don't think any better offers were out there, and if there were, they were not better by much.

 

The Beni trade has not looked great, but it's not like beni it the world on fire, either, and his team control is now expired. Wink & de la Rosa's have not.

 

The Workman-Hembree trade has worked out pretty well. Pivetta has done better than both combined, and Seabold still offers some faint promise.

 

The 2 months of Vaz traded away for E Valdez and Abreu is way too soon to "expect more" from.

 

The Pillar for Wallace trade may end up being one of Bloom's best.

 

The trade of basically nothing for German should not be discounted either.

 

Again, nobody is saying his trades for prospects have been great or even good. So far, it looks like they have just provided organization depth for the minor league teams only, except for Wink, Seabold and briefly Wong, Downs and German.

 

Are you saying he should have only traded for ML ready players, or did you expect Luis de la Rosa, Hamilton, Binelas, Ferguson, Rosier and others to be in the bigs by now?

 

[notin]

Fair enough, although ERod, JBJ and maybe soon to be JD, X & Nate left via free agency.

 

Moreland was not someone you'd expect a great haul from, but Potts and Rosario are gone or not promising, at all.

 

The Chavis trade looks bad, too.

 

The Betts and Price deal has been discussed, enough. Personally, I don't think any better offers were out there, and if there were, they were not better by much.

 

The Beni trade has not looked great, but it's not like beni it the world on fire, either, and his team control is now expired. Wink & de la Rosa's have not.

 

The Workman-Hembree trade has worked out pretty well. Pivetta has done better than both combined, and Seabold still offers some faint promise.

 

The 2 months of Vaz traded away for E Valdez and Abreu is way too soon to "expect more" from.

 

The Pillar for Wallace trade may end up being one of Bloom's best.

 

The trade of basically nothing for German should not be discounted either.

 

Again, nobody is saying his trades for prospects have been great or even good. So far, it looks like they have just provided organization depth for the minor league teams only, except for Wink, Seabold and briefly Wong, Downs and German.

 

Are you saying he should have only traded for ML ready players, or did you expect Luis de la Rosa, Hamilton, Binelas, Ferguson, Rosier and others to be in the bigs by now?

 

 

 

How does the Chavis trade look bad? We released Davis, but the Pirates released Chavis just weeks later.

 

To me the Pivetta trade was amazing. The Sox got multiple years of a decent SP for 3 months of two journeyman relievers who have combined to play for over 10 teams since that trade…

[moonslav59]

Yes I did because we traded all stars a league mvp some gold gloves and silver slugger award winners, I expected some above average prospects to replace them, guys ready to make the jump to the bigs not a bunch of guys that are more than likely to only make cameo appearances, and I was pretty specific that I was discussing trades only

 

It wasn't so clear to me, you meant only trades. I view the addition of Whitlock as closer to a trade than a amateur draft or IFA signing. The kid was ML ready the day we selected him, but I'm fine talking only trades.

 

I agree, so far, we have seen very little production from who we got in players for prospect trades. I'm not saying Bloom did a good job on those trades, as a whole.

 

I will point out that the Betts & Price trade looked forced, and from what we know about other offers, I'm not sure how you feel he could have or should have done better.

 

The Beni trade is over on one half. Beni's team control ended. I still have some hopes for Wink, but if you want to call that trade "bad," okay. It very well could be. (Don't forget de la Rosa, though.)

 

I've already said I hated the Renfroe trade from day one and dozens of times in between. No argument there.

 

All the other trades were not stars traded away, and we have Pivetta, Wallace, German and Seabold remaining as hopefuls. All I said was I expect 1-2 to end up being meaningful. That was not meant as praise.

[moonslav59]

How does the Chavis trade look bad? We released Davis, but the Pirates released Chavis just weeks later.

 

To me the Pivetta trade was amazing. The Sox got multiple years of a decent SP for 3 months of two journeyman relievers who have combined to play for over 10 teams since that trade…

 

Chavis did okay, but yes, it's not like anything "bad" was all that meaningful, except that we really did need a 1Bman and 2Bman, when Story & Arroyo were bth out. I'd rather have kept him, so I called the trade bad. Not an earthshakingly bad trade.

[notin]

Chavis did okay, but yes, it's not like anything "bad" was all that meaningful, except that we really did need a 1Bman and 2Bman, when Story & Arroyo were bth out. I'd rather have kept him, so I called the trade bad. Not an earthshakingly bad trade.

 

Davis was worth -1.1 bWAR. Chavis was worth -0.1 bWAR.

 

Davis was worse but both teams lost that trade…

[moonslav59]

Davis was worth -1.1 bWAR. Chavis was worth -0.1 bWAR.

 

Davis was worse but both teams lost that trade…

 

Our 1B was awful, last year. Much worse than Chavis.

 

The deal is barely worth talking about, but I think we'd have been very slightly better with Chavis over Davis.

 

[moonslav59]

Is there any FA that has signed, so far, anyone wishes we had signed at the same or more money?

[Bellhorn04]

Is there any FA that has signed, so far, anyone wishes we had signed at the same or more money?

 

Probably not.

 

The real question is whether there is any FA we want to sign at the money they're going to get.

[notin]

One guy no one on this board is really mentioning is Wilson Contreras.

 

I think he’s a great fit. RHH power bat. Can DH on days he doesn’t catch (and it’s not like the Sox have David Ortiz in that role). He’s 30 years old with a 116 OPS+ over the past 3 years. And MLBTR projected him for a 4 year $84mil contract, which seems very light after seeing what Jose Abreu signed for. So let’s say 4-5 years with a $22-24 mill AAV

 

IS 4-5 years of Contreras a wiser investment that 7-10 years of Bogaerts/Correa?

[mvp 78]

Is there any FA that has signed, so far, anyone wishes we had signed at the same or more money?

 

Montero

Santana

[mvp 78]

One guy no one on this board is really mentioning is Wilson Contreras.

 

I think he’s a great fit. RHH power bat. Can DH on days he doesn’t catch (and it’s not like the Sox have David Ortiz in that role). He’s 30 years old with a 116 OPS+ over the past 3 years. And MLBTR projected him for a 4 year $84mil contract, which seems very light after seeing what Jose Abreu signed for. So let’s say 4-5 years with a $22-24 mill AAV

 

IS 4-5 years of Contreras a wiser investment that 7-10 years of Bogaerts/Correa?

 

Pass. I'd rather have Bogey or Correa.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is there any FA that has signed, so far, anyone wishes we had signed at the same or more money?

 

Including Joely and Crook? Nope.

[mvp 78]

Including Joely and Crook? Nope.

 

I think the Joely signing is fine.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think the Joely signing is fine.

 

Mets used 10 pitchers in the playoffs and not one was named Joely.

 

Diaz, Montero and Suarez already got paid, but Rogers, Robertson, Chafin and Fulmer are still out there.

 

Also liked what I saw from Zach Eflin in relief in the World Series; he's listed as a starter, so could be a versatile swingman. Cut by Philly, can be had at the minimum, what is Chaim waiting for -- black Wednesday?

[mvp 78]

Mets used 10 pitchers in the playoffs and not one was named Joely.

 

Diaz, Montero and Suarez already got paid, but Rogers, Robertson, Chafin and Fulmer are still out there.

 

Also liked what I saw from Zach Eflin in relief in the World Series; he's listed as a starter, so could be a versatile swingman. Cut by Philly, can be had at the minimum, what is Chaim waiting for -- black Wednesday?

 

Oh, so you want a guy that the Phillies CUT?!?!?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Oh, so you want a guy that the Phillies CUT?!?!?

 

Based on what we know about Dombro's bullpens since bulls were invented? Definitely...

[harmony]

Oh, so you want a guy that the Phillies CUT?!?!?

The Seattle Mariners signed righthander Trevor Gott to an MLB contract after the Milwaukee Brewers cut the 30-year-old reliever who posted negative WAR in 2022 and for his career.

[mvp 78]

The Seattle Mariners signed righthander Trevor Gott to an MLB contract after the Milwaukee Brewers cut the 30-year-old reliever who posted negative WAR in 2022 and for his career.

 

My post was using sarcasm.

 

Or not.

[moonslav59]

Montero

Santana

 

$11.5 x 4 for Montero is one I'd have done.

 

I would not have given Carlos Santana $6.725M or more for 1 year. I'd prefer an extra RP'er or an even an upgrade at catcher to trying to upgrade DH and 1B depth.

[moonslav59]

One guy no one on this board is really mentioning is Wilson Contreras.

 

I think he’s a great fit. RHH power bat. Can DH on days he doesn’t catch (and it’s not like the Sox have David Ortiz in that role). He’s 30 years old with a 116 OPS+ over the past 3 years. And MLBTR projected him for a 4 year $84mil contract, which seems very light after seeing what Jose Abreu signed for. So let’s say 4-5 years with a $22-24 mill AAV

 

IS 4-5 years of Contreras a wiser investment that 7-10 years of Bogaerts/Correa?

 

Not that this is a reason not to sign him, but the Astros almost traded for him to be Maldonado's back-up.

 

He'd certainly be our FT catcher over McGuire, but it makes me wonder about his defense and staff-handling skills.

[mvp 78]

$11.5 x 4 for Montero is one I'd have done.

 

I would not have given Carlos Santana $6.725M or more for 1 year. I'd prefer an extra RP'er or an even an upgrade at catcher to trying to upgrade DH and 1B depth.

 

Santana would be the primary DH, plays a good 1B and is a good platoon option for Casas against tough LHP. For 7M, I think it's a pretty good deal. I can see him being over 1 fWAR next season.

[mvp 78]

Not that this is a reason not to sign him, but the Astros almost traded for him to be Maldonado's back-up.

 

He'd certainly be our FT catcher over McGuire, but it makes me wonder about his defense and staff-handling skills.

 

Contreras had a bad year behind the plate. He doesn't frame well at all. His carrying tool is his bat.