How is Bloom doing as a GM?

[Old Red]

I still wonder if Story was the guy Bloom wanted, all along. I get a feeling JH panicked and suddenly told Bloom, in March, it was OK to sign someone to about $150, and what choices were left, at that time.

 

Pure conjecture on my part, as we were apparently interested in Baez and Suzuki. In that respect, I'm glad we got Story.

I don’t think Story was the guy all along, and my opinion all along has been that Story was signed to appease the fans, because of all the flack JH was hearing, because the Sox wasn’t spending. I don’t believe Boston was Story’s first choice of employment either.

[moonslav59]

I would've re-signed Schwarber over Story, mainly because Schwarbs was a known commodity proven successful in Boston, which isn't always a guarantee -- as Big Papi tells us. Story is a better all-around player and might still have a good career in Boston, but we know the Sox already won with Schwarber. In retrospect, the latter's HR bat would've made more of a diff in this year's power outage, while Arroyo was more than competent at second (with promising middle infielders in the pipeline).

 

I also wanted Rodon, especially at market value for one year... even Thor; if we're staying over the tax threshold, might as well put some quality out there, as least for the spectators...

 

As for the mystery behind the Story signing -- if it indeed was insurance in case Bogey leaves, the cost left too many roster holes unfilled this season... and that's not only inexcusable, but unfeasible. I'll still be surprised if Story moves back to short, even if X is history...

 

Were Schwarber and Rodon your first 2 choices?

 

Also, was Bloom's checkbook open early in the winter signing period?

[moonslav59]

I don’t think Story was the guy all along, and my opinion all along has been that Story was signed to appease the fans, because of all the flack JH was hearing, because the Sox wasn’t spending. I don’t believe Boston was Story’s first choice of employment either.

 

That's what I would guess, and it's another reason why I don't hold Bloom to the fire as much as some do. Many of the major choices he made were forced on him.

 

1. Betts/Price deal and salary dump going into 2020.

2. The Story signing.

3. The severely restricted budget going into 2021, when we had 10+ slots in great need of upgrading.

4. A mandate to build up the farm, which makes it hard to add players via prospects for stud deals.

5. The uncertainty around spending going into 2022, then bam- sign Story, NOW!

 

I'm not downplaying all the bad moves and choices Bloom made, although some of them are still open, due to the prospects we got. He made some bad choices. No doubt.

[notin]

 

Yes, he should have signed great and durable pitchers for $7M and $5M, He sucks!

 

You are right.

 

Yep. $12million just didn’t but what it used to.

 

What it took to get some of these players is a consideration. For example, Pivetta takes a lot of flak, but no one likes to point out he was acquired for two 30+ broken down relievers, neither of who had been able to hold down an MLB job and have played on 8 teams in the past 26 months.

 

I mean, the Sox built 60% of their starting rotation - which was very effective up until July when they all went down - for the cost of Workman, Hembree, and $12million. And with deals like that, people want Bloom fired?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Were Schwarber and Rodon your first 2 choices?

 

Also, was Bloom's checkbook open early in the winter signing period?

 

No idea re. the latter; all speculation, as usual.

 

First priority is always pitching, but most starters in their primes who were too expensive, like Ray or Gausman. I would've settled for Matz or Gray, and both turned up injured and basically busts. Relievers were also too costly here, so we weren't seeing Iglesias for $48M or Graveman for $24M or even Kelly for $17M. Houston paid Hector Neris -- 2 for 17 -- the going rate for a decent set-up man? They have the best record in the AL...

 

Some of us would've taken David Robertson for $3.5 any day over Diekman, though.

[Bellhorn04]

No idea re. the latter; all speculation, as usual.

 

First priority is always pitching, but most starters in their primes who were too expensive, like Ray or Gausman. I would've settled for Matz or Gray, and both turned up injured and basically busts. Relievers were also too costly here, so we weren't seeing Iglesias for $48M or Graveman for $24M or even Kelly for $17M. Houston paid Hector Neris -- 2 for 17 -- the going rate for a decent set-up man? They have the best record in the AL...

 

Some of us would've taken David Robertson for $3.5 any day over Diekman, though.

 

What irked me was we heard they were talking to Collin McHugh, and then we signed Diekman. McHugh got 2 years and $10 mill while Diekman got 2 and $8 mill.

 

McHugh has a 2.73 ERA in 56 innings and a 1.1 fWAR, equivalent to about a 3 fWAR for starters.

[redsoxrules]

Bloom did good up until this year. He really dropped the bomb this year.

 

He signed Renfroe last year and what does he do? Trades him for garbage.

Signs Story - I'm sorry that's a bad signing as it will probably prevent both the signings of Bogey and Devers.

There's no way the Sox will extend both Bogey and Devers. If they do so the infield alone will take up close to 100 MIL of the payroll. Not gonna happen.

 

For people who say Bogey is done and on the down fall, he is having a better season than Devers. In fact he is the Sox top producer this year in terms of WAR but yet people want to get rid of him and want to give Devers over 300M which is a bad move.

 

 

Bloom did not fix the first base problem. It's been a black hole all season long. Could have picked up Rizzo.

 

Didn't fix the bullpen issue.

 

Next year will be what decides if he stays on or not.

[notin]

I don’t think Story was the guy all along, and my opinion all along has been that Story was signed to appease the fans, because of all the flack JH was hearing, because the Sox wasn’t spending. I don’t believe Boston was Story’s first choice of employment either.

 

They were reportedly in on Suzuki.

 

Story did serve a useful Plan B in that he gave them a potential SS for 2023 f Bogaerts could not be resigned but was also willing to play 2b until then…

[moonslav59]

Bloom did good up until this year. He really dropped the bomb this year.

 

He signed Renfroe last year and what does he do? Trades him for garbage.

Signs Story - I'm sorry that's a bad signing as it will probably prevent both the signings of Bogey and Devers.

There's no way the Sox will extend both Bogey and Devers. If they do so the infield alone will take up close to 100 MIL of the payroll. Not gonna happen.

 

For people who say Bogey is done and on the down fall, he is having a better season than Devers. In fact he is the Sox top producer this year in terms of WAR but yet people want to get rid of him and want to give Devers over 300M which is a bad move.

 

 

Bloom did not fix the first base problem. It's been a black hole all season long. Could have picked up Rizzo.

 

Didn't fix the bullpen issue.

 

Next year will be what decides if he stays on or not.

 

Why not at least mention all the good moves?

Wacha

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

(Hill at $5M not bad)

 

We are not even sure the Story signing was his choice.

 

No doubt, the JBJ deal sucked, bigtime.

 

What GM would have signed Rizzo when you had a young 1Bman with an OPS over .810, especially when you had holes open on the pitching staff and 2B?

 

If he counted on Arroyo, instead of signing Story, we'd have seen Down almost all year at 2B, and people would be saying he didn't "fix the 2B problem."

 

I do agree that this winter decides Bloom's fate.

[mvp 78]

So many great moves they went from ALCS to last DAMN place.

[redsoxrules]

Why not at least mention all the good moves?

Wacha

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

(Hill at $5M not bad)

 

We are not even sure the Story signing was his choice.

 

No doubt, the JBJ deal sucked, bigtime.

 

What GM would have signed Rizzo when you had a young 1Bman with an OPS over .810, especially when you had holes open on the pitching staff and 2B?

 

If he counted on Arroyo, instead of signing Story, we'd have seen Down almost all year at 2B, and people would be saying he didn't "fix the 2B problem."

 

I do agree that this winter decides Bloom's fate.

 

Hill is trash. He has a 0.5 WAR

Schreiber who's a releiver is outperforming him.

Strahm hasn't pitch enough and only has a .2 WAR.

Refs doesn't play much so honestly that's irrelevant

 

He certainly did well with Wacha and Screiber but that's it.

[moonslav59]

Hill is trash. He has a 0.5 WAR

Schreiber who's a releiver is outperforming him.

Strahm hasn't pitch enough and only has a .2 WAR.

Refs doesn't play much so honestly that's irrelevant

 

He certainly did well with Wacha and Screiber but that's it.

 

Ref has the 6th best bWAR of the everyday players and is 0.1 away from having the highest BWAR among our OF'ers. Not easy to do when not playing much, but he has been far from irrelevant.

 

A 0.5 bWAR from Hill at $5M is not as bad as it sounds.

 

Strahm's 0.6 fWAR is 4th best among RP'ers and at $3M was a good signing, right?

[moonslav59]

So many great moves they went from ALCS to last DAMN place.

 

Again, only the JBJ and Diekman were a major part of the decline. The rest was all due to carry-over players who declined- some by a lot.

Edited September 2, 2022 by moonslav59

[harmony]

So many great moves they went from ALCS to last DAMN place.

The Red Sox may have wildly overperformed last year and wildly underperformed this year.

 

Their true level is probably somewhere in between ... which makes for an interesting future.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox may have wildly overperformed last year and wildly underperformed this year.

 

Their true level is probably somewhere in between ... which makes for an interesting future.

 

So many contracts are expiring and so many acquisitions are required that I'm not sure there's such a thing as a true level.

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox may have wildly overperformed last year and wildly underperformed this year.

 

Their true level is probably somewhere in between ... which makes for an interesting future.

 

The Sox weren't that great last year. Kike just happen to catch fire and a few other players and they made a run. It's like the saying the playoffs are a crap shoot. Just get in and you never know what can happen

[Maxbialystock]

The Sox weren't that great last year. Kike just happen to catch fire and a few other players and they made a run. It's like the saying the playoffs are a crap shoot. Just get in and you never know what can happen

 

Yeah. That's why the Yankees never refer to those 27 WS wins and why nobody gives a crap that John Henry has brought 4 WS wins to Boston after some insignificant and, really, unimportant period when they didn't win the WS.

 

I do agree teams can get hot in the postseason, but crapshoot it is not. Last year the Sox crunched the Yankees best starter in the wild card, then beat the 100 win Rays 3 games to 1 in the ALDS. The Astros were simply better in the ALCS.

[moonslav59]

Let's assume we don't sign Judge or Bogey or maybe the next highest FA or two or three, what's the chances we can and will outbid everyone for 5 or 6 of the next tier FAs?

 

For example, can we offer enough to get all these guys?

 

QO Wacha and then pay...

 

Swanson (or KWong)

Nimmo

Kike

Abreu

Fulmer (or Rogers)

 

Then, maybe trade Casas and others for a solid SP'er?

 

 

[notin]

The Sox weren't that great last year. Kike just happen to catch fire and a few other players and they made a run. It's like the saying the playoffs are a crap shoot. Just get in and you never know what can happen

 

The Sox were 92-70 last year.

 

Does the axiom about being what your record says you only apply to bad teams?

[Hugh2]

Let's assume we don't sign Judge or Bogey or maybe the next highest FA or two or three, what's the chances we can and will outbid everyone for 5 or 6 of the next tier FAs?

 

For example, can we offer enough to get all these guys?

 

QO Wacha and then pay...

 

Swanson (or KWong)

Nimmo

Kike

Abreu

Fulmer (or Rogers)

 

Then, maybe trade Casas and others for a solid SP'er?

 

 

 

I’m not trading Casas I’m starting him at 1B next year. The more cheap home grown guys you have like Casas, the easier it becomes to go out and throw money at a guy like Aaron Judge

[notin]

I’m not trading Casas I’m starting him at 1B next year. The more cheap home grown guys you have like Casas, the easier it becomes to go out and throw money at a guy like Aaron Judge

 

I doubt Judge even becomes an option.

 

I would explore trading Casas for a SP because the Sox already have a minimum wage 1b in Hosmer. I do find it odd that a lot of people and even Soxprospects.com are putting Hosmer and his .742OPS over the last 3 years at DH.

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt Judge even becomes an option.

 

Hugh likes him some Judge.

[Hugh2]

I doubt Judge even becomes an option.

 

I would explore trading Casas for a SP because the Sox already have a minimum wage 1b in Hosmer. I do find it odd that a lot of people and even Soxprospects.com are putting Hosmer and his .742OPS over the last 3 years at DH.

 

Aaron Judge is irrelevant, the point is it’s easier to swallow those big contracts when you can constantly turn out top tier talent onto your team, you’ll never get there by trading it all away.

 

I’m all for trading guys, but never trade a guy where you have a hole. We have a hole at 1B and our top prospect is a 1B man.

[Bellhorn04]

The way Arroyo is hitting, he might be a candidate for 2023 DH!

[Hugh2]

But yes, generally speaking I like Aaron Judge.

[notin]

Hugh likes him some Judge.

 

f*** Judge.

 

He turned down 7 years $210mill from the Yankees. That means he wants either more than 7 years or more than $210mill or, more likely, both.

 

He’s also 30 years old and just topped the elusive 112 games mark for the third time in his career.

 

He is EXACTLY the type of free agent the Sox need to avoid. A short term fix that requires a long term commitment stands a very good chance of being another problematic contract…

[notin]

Aaron Judge is irrelevant, the point is it’s easier to swallow those big contracts when you can constantly turn out top tier talent onto your team, you’ll never get there by trading it all away.

 

I’m all for trading guys, but never trade a guy where you have a hole. We have a hole at 1B and our top prospect is a 1B man.

 

 

I agree and have been saying do for a while. Minimum wage and serviceable makes big contracts more affordable. But I greatly prefer Devers over Judge. Also I think the Sox need to pay close attention to San Diego and see how that whole mess plays out.

 

I doubt the Sox trade Casas for a SP. More likely they look for Wacha 2.0…

[moonslav59]

I’m not trading Casas I’m starting him at 1B next year. The more cheap home grown guys you have like Casas, the easier it becomes to go out and throw money at a guy like Aaron Judge

 

You don't get a pitcher like Lopez without giving up a top prospect.

 

2 arb years instead of throwing money at deGrom will help us to sign Bogey or Swanson and lock up Devers.

[moonslav59]

Aaron Judge is irrelevant, the point is it’s easier to swallow those big contracts when you can constantly turn out top tier talent onto your team, you’ll never get there by trading it all away.

 

I’m all for trading guys, but never trade a guy where you have a hole. We have a hole at 1B and our top prospect is a 1B man.

 

We have about 5-6 major holes, and if you look at who we currently have to fill those slots, 1B has more hope than SS, CF, RF, SP and RP, maybe C, too.

 

That is even after trading Casas!

 

If you had to choose which position to leave as is, which would it be?

 

CF: Duran, Ja Davis

SS/2B: Arroyo/Downs

RF: Refsnyder/ (Dugo w Pham in LF?)

2 SPs: Bello, Crawford, Wink

3-4 RP'ers: Crawford, Wink, Barnes, Taylor, German

C: McGuire, Wong, RHern

1B: Hosmer, Dalbec, Arroyo, Cordero (Jordan/Kavadas)

 

As bad as it looks, I don't see 1B as our biggest or even 2nd, 3rd or 4th biggest high need area.

[moonslav59]

f*** Judge.

 

He turned down 7 years $210mill from the Yankees. That means he wants either more than 7 years or more than $210mill or, more likely, both.

 

He’s also 30 years old and just topped the elusive 112 games mark for the third time in his career.

 

He is EXACTLY the type of free agent the Sox need to avoid. A short term fix that requires a long term commitment stands a very good chance of being another problematic contract…

 

Would Judge take:

 

$42M

$42M

$41M

Opt out

$30M

$26M

$24M

$20M Team option w $5M buyout

 

That's $125M/3 or $210M/6 or $225M/7.