Vazquez traded to Houston

[Bellhorn04]

As far as "shocking" deadline trades, I don't think Vazquez registers very high.

 

I think Yankee fans were a lot more shocked by Montgomery being traded for a defensive outfielder who's on the IL.

[Old Red]

And frankly he has no reason to be unhappy, especially with a monster payday in his near future.

 

Yes, but probably not from the Sox, and if that happens will you be happy with the team losing 3 potential HOF in a 4 year period?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, but probably not from the Sox, and if that happens will you be happy with the team losing 3 potential HOF in a 4 year period?

 

No, I'll hate it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As far as "shocking" deadline trades, I don't think Vazquez registers very high.

 

 

No one should be shocked, since it was leaked the Sox thought they had a deal for his replacement last winter. Vaz knew he was a goner, so it was easier for him to speak out.

 

Though it wasn't as bad as when Millar was interviewed in the winter of '03, and said he'd take ARod over Nomar -- because he thought both their trades were a done deal. It all culminated that summer when everybody in Fenway but Nomar stood up to watch Jeter run 75 yards so he could facewhomp a metal chair... then we knew, Nomar had to go.

[Bellhorn04]

No one should be shocked, since it was leaked the Sox thought they had a deal for his replacement last winter. Vaz knew he was a goner, so it was easier for him to speak out.

 

Though it wasn't as bad as when Millar was interviewed in the winter of '03, and said he'd take ARod over Nomar -- because he thought both their trades were a done deal. It all culminated that summer when everybody in Fenway but Nomar stood up to watch Jeter run 75 yards so he could facewhomp a metal chair... then we knew, Nomar had to go.

 

And the 2004 team is of course a great example of one that went through a lot of turmoil and had guys who were unhappy for various reasons and things ended up pretty well...

[Elktonnick]

If he doesn't believe that his current team is committed to winning in the short term then of course there is a reason for him not to be happy..

[Bellhorn04]

If he doesn't believe that his current team is committed to winning in the short term then of course there is a reason for him not to be happy..

 

It's a pretty mild reason in the overall scheme of things. Plus one could make a case that the 2022 team was trying to compete, they just got derailed by injuries and some questionable moves like the Renfroe-Bradley trade.

[Jasonbay44]

It's a pretty mild reason in the overall scheme of things. Plus one could make a case that the 2022 team was trying to compete, they just got derailed by injuries and some questionable moves like the Renfroe-Bradley trade.

 

It does send an odd message when you trade your starting catcher, a guy loved in the clubhouse, but then make weird moves to appear as if you are attempting to win now, while not addressing the biggest need, which is the bullpen. The direction of this team is confusing to say the least

[Bellhorn04]

It does send an odd message when you trade your starting catcher, a guy loved in the clubhouse, but then make weird moves to appear as if you are attempting to win now, while not addressing the biggest need, which is the bullpen. The direction of this team is confusing to say the least

 

A few of us think the reason they traded Vaz (besides his expiring contract) was the CERA thing, and the new guy McGuire has good CERA numbers.

 

I'm not surprised that the deadline moves looked weird. I'm guessing the front office didn't want to throw away the slim chance of making the playoffs for the sake of fan interest, but they didn't want to invest much in it, either.

[moonslav59]

This year reminds me of 2019. It looked good on paper in the prior winter, and then things headed south. Snakebite losses, and then morale was not there to overcome the obstacles.

 

Blame the GM.

Blame the manager.

Blame the "team leaders."

Blame, if you must.

 

Bad seasons happen. Some expected- some not.

 

I'm more optimistic about the future than I was after 2019. I'm clinging to that to help me get through the pain of '22.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

This year reminds me of 2019. It looked good on paper in the prior winter, and then things headed south. Snakebite losses, and then morale was not there to overcome the obstacles.

 

Blame the GM.

Blame the manager.

Blame the "team leaders."

Blame, if you must.

 

Bad seasons happen. Some expected- some not.

 

I'm more optimistic about the future than I was after 2019. I'm clinging to that to help me get through the pain of '22.

 

 

Not sure how. Sox lose JD, Eo, Xander, Kike, Pham, Wacha, Hill from current club. Yes, lots of money coming off the books, but lots of talent coming off as well without a strong FA class to add

[Elktonnick]

It's a pretty mild reason in the overall scheme of things. Plus one could make a case that the 2022 team was trying to compete, they just got derailed by injuries and some questionable moves like the Renfroe-Bradley trade.

It may be mild to you but the clubhouse was not convinced that Bloom has a plan or that it is near term. Devers is going to get his payday. The word is that he wants to win. The clubhouse is not convinced that Bloom is committed to winning in the short term. They do not trust him. As someone said why should they? Because he says so. I do not think so.

[Bellhorn04]

It may be mild to you but the clubhouse was not convinced that Bloom has a plan or that it is near term. Devers is going to get his payday. The word is that he wants to win. The clubhouse is not convinced that Bloom is committed to winning in the short term. They do not trust him. As someone said why should they? Because he says so. I do not think so.

 

A lot of that sounds like good old media speculation to me. Are there any actual quotes?

[notin]

It may be mild to you but the clubhouse was not convinced that Bloom has a plan or that it is near term. Devers is going to get his payday. The word is that he wants to win. The clubhouse is not convinced that Bloom is committed to winning in the short term. They do not trust him. As someone said why should they? Because he says so. I do not think so.

 

Is the team winning in the short term?

 

I like that they haven’t waved the white flag, but at some point that decision had to be made. Baltimore has a better record and went into sell mode. At what point do the players themselves look at their accountability?

 

And it’s not even about poor play. This team has gotten 7 innings from their ace, and that 8th inning isn’t coming any time soon…

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure how. Sox lose JD, Eo, Xander, Kike, Pham, Wacha, Hill from current club. Yes, lots of money coming off the books, but lots of talent coming off as well without a strong FA class to add

 

It doesn't look like such a weak class to me.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/top-mlb-free-agents/

[Elktonnick]

A lot of that sounds like good old media speculation to me. Are there any actual quotes?

Get out your bubble and listen to Weei or Sports Hub and the people who actually have sources within the clubhouse and organization. This isn't idle speculation on an internet chat room.

[Elktonnick]

Is the team winning in the short term?

 

I like that they haven’t waved the white flag, but at some point that decision had to be made. Baltimore has a better record and went into sell mode. At what point do the players themselves look at their accountability?

 

And it’s not even about poor play. This team has gotten 7 innings from their ace, and that 8th inning isn’t coming any time soon…

By short term I mean 23 or 24. The concern is that Bloom.has no plan but just making deals with no rhymn and reason. The best guess is that he is stocking the farm for a run sometime in the distant future.

[Bellhorn04]

Get out your bubble and listen to Weei or Sports Hub and the people who actually have sources within the clubhouse and organization. This isn't idle speculation on an internet chat room.

 

Yeah, no thanks, I'm pretty happy right where I am.

[Elktonnick]

Yeah, no thanks, I'm pretty happy right where I am.

In the dark!

[Bellhorn04]

In the dark!

 

Yeah right. You should know it's a waste of time trying to tell people how to spend their time.

 

Excuse me if I don't look upon sports media and open mouth shows as a source of wisdom.

 

I read the Globe sports guys-Shaughnessy, Abraham etc. That's enough for me.

[Elktonnick]

Merloni, Mazzarrotti, Ken Rosenthal John Heyman, Sleve Buckley, Peter Gammons, Sean McAdam , Dan Shaughnessey and Rob Bradford all appear on Sports media. None of them know anything or have nothing worth contributing. Is that what you are saying? I just want to understand your thinking.

[Elktonnick]

Yeah right. You should know it's a waste of time trying to tell people how to spend their time.

 

Excuse me if I don't look upon sports media and open mouth shows as a source of wisdom.

 

I read the Globe sports guys-Shaughnessy, Abraham etc. That's enough for me.

You realize that Henry owns the Globe?

[Bellhorn04]

Merloni, Mazzarrotti, Ken Rosenthal John Heyman, Sleve Buckley, Peter Gammons, Sean McAdam , Dan Shaughnessey and Rob Bradford all appear on Sports media. None of them know anything or have nothing worth contributing. Is that what you are saying? I just want to understand your thinking.

 

I don't have time to take it all in. And a lot of it is, and always has been, speculation/hearsay/gossip that is designed to stir people up and generate revenue. It's an age-old game.

 

I'm not saying they're all full of it, either. But if it isn't an actual quote, I see no reason to buy it as fact.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

You realize that Henry owns the Globe?

 

Of course.

 

Shaughnessy actually had a column some months back where he expressed gratitude to Henry for not canning him the way Manfred canned Rosenthal.

 

I like a lot of Shaughnessy's stuff. I own a couple of his books. But I also find him to be an insufferable curmudgeon a lot of the time.

[Elktonnick]

You should know that baseball people hardly ever say things directly. They speak in broad generalities. It is their tone, innuendo and actions which give away their true intentions. If you heard Pedro's entire statement you understand clearly his meaning..

[Bellhorn04]

You should know that baseball people hardly ever say things directly. They speak in broad generalities. It is their tone, innuendo and actions which give away their true intentions. If you heard Pedro's entire statement you understand clearly his meaning..

 

Pedro is media now too. And he was a bit of an agitator when he was a player. He's one of the guys on the 2004 team who was unhappy because of his contract situation, and he complained about it publicly early in the season, which pissed me off a lot at the time.

[Elktonnick]

Pedro is media now too. And he was a bit of an agitator when he was a player. He's one of the guys on the 2004 team who was unhappy because of his contract situation, and he complained about it publicly early in the season, which pissed me off a lot at the time.

Now I get it anyone who deviates from the Henry party line including a former all star pitcher is an agitator. Let no new information upset your comfort zone.

[moonslav59]

Not sure how. Sox lose JD, Eo, Xander, Kike, Pham, Wacha, Hill from current club. Yes, lots of money coming off the books, but lots of talent coming off as well without a strong FA class to add

 

We have a lot of deadwood coming off the books, too.

 

We don't have to fill every slot by free agency, but there are enough equal or better FAs out there to fill the slots we need filled.

 

We can trade for a high salary, which would lessen the return needed for the upgrade.

 

I think we fill 1B w Hosmer (free), Casas and Dalbec.

We may not add a catcher and just go with McGuire and Wong/RHern as the back up. I'd be fine with this, if we can fill these next slots with equal or better talent than 2022: (not in order of high to loe priority)

 

2B/SS (wherever Story is not playing)

CF

RF

DH (can be RF/DH or 1B/DH)

SP (1/2 type)

SP (3/4 type)

RP

(Maybe get a catcher, utility IF/OF, SP depth and pen depth)

 

$90M+ for 6 slots should be fine. We can get better.

 

Replace or re-sign

Bogey

JBJ

Refsnyder

JD

Wacha

Hill

Diekman

[mvp 78]

Not sure how. Sox lose JD, Eo, Xander, Kike, Pham, Wacha, Hill from current club. Yes, lots of money coming off the books, but lots of talent coming off as well without a strong FA class to add

 

It's NOT a great class, agreed.

[notin]

It doesn't look like such a weak class to me.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/top-mlb-free-agents/

 

Even if it is a weak class, free agency is but one way to add talent.

 

There’s always a few teams willing to deal a player they signed but now regret doing so for one reason or another…